15885 réponses à ce sujet

[Lethaya]

Also DA:O =/= DA2 and I or the series on the whole, Origins was closer to low fantasy than 2 and I by quite a bit.

 

Hmmm, not sure if I get this? DA:O's main plot deal's with stopping a blight, in which a Darkspawn horde led by a draconic Archdemon try to ruin the world. The main character can posess magic, but no matter what, they have superhuman abilities as a Warden regarding Darkspawn, and the plot sees you forge alliances with witches, dwarves, elves... all seem fairly fantastic in nature.

 

DA2 had more grey morality, was smaller scale, and a bit more... humorous in tone, I think, with Varric as it's narrator, anyway. The enemies were less black and white - templar or mages was a decision, rather than fighting the Darkspawn, which were more along the lines of a nameless, faceless force of evil. Hawke may be a mage, but no matter what, they start of as the dreggs of society in Kirkwall, and then go social climber. Not as heroic in scale as the Warden who stops the world from ending.

 

Hurm.

[midnight tea]

Like this was purely PURELY in jest, but you guys treated it like any DA character would, like I was mocking your royal garments and spitting on the crown or something. 

 

Overreacting now much?

Oh, the irony.

 

 

I think this kind of illustrates my point, Tolkien fantasy is the super serious harsh edges, every little detail counts, every T  must be crossed, the darkies must be crushed. You know... sort of like your responses to my not necessarily super serious all the time post.

 

Lol, overreacting even more? I love how you took my short response that basically said "what your'e doing isn't funny" and blown it to some sort of attempts of crushing you.

 

In either case - DA's world is hardly super-serious.... in fact, Bioware's writing reminds me more of original Witcher books (ah, nostalgic here. Witcher was my first 'serious' fantasy, as in Poland it was almost the only fantasy series that was readily available). There's a biting sharpess to Sapkowski's dialogue and humor (even in parts of tale that is fairly lighthearted) that I don't really think the game really got... Maybe I should try and play it in Polish to see if some of it was lost in translation... I'm so used to playing games in English that I automatically default to it.

 

 

Yes it has magic, and so does DA, by comparison, TW is lower in the magic department.

 

HOW is it lower in magic department? Have you read my comments at all? Or did you just skip those parts, so you could make unfunny jests and feign outrage when people are unresponsive to them, when they divert from actual conversation?

[Seraphim24]

Hmmm, not sure if I get this? DA:O's main plot deal's with stopping a blight, in which a Darkspawn horde led by a draconic Archdemon try to ruin the world. The main character can posess magic, but no matter what, they have superhuman abilities as a Warden regarding Darkspawn, and the plot sees you forge alliances with witches, dwarves, elves... all seem fairly fantastic in nature.

 

DA2 had more grey morality, was smaller scale, and a bit more... humorous in tone, I think, with Varric as it's narrator, anyway. The enemies were less black and white - templar or mages was a decision, rather than fighting the Darkspawn, which were more along the lines of a nameless, faceless force of evil. Hawke may be a mage, but no matter what, they start of as the dreggs of society in Kirkwall, and then go social climber. Not as heroic in scale as the Warden who stops the world from ending.

 

Hurm.

 

DA2 had no morality, as distinguished from gray morality (even less complicated than black and white high fantasy) you were the chosen one and you were to crush the city and become Goku, Canadian hipster style. The templars vs mages was designed to placate the fans of BG and DA and pay homage but I did not view it as the central focus of the plot.

 

I literally could not tell you anything about the mages or templars in DA2 after having played it, they were just faceless NPCs basically in the way of my indominatble ascension to being King Kirkwall and shagging the blazes out of as many people as I could and becoming fabulous rich and wealthy.

 

DA:O was moderately gray at times but the overarching themes were black and white. From the very beginning of the prologue, Duncan is telling you about the importance of the blight and stopping the big bad, at the end, you stop the big bad. Sure, there are detours, but the course is the same.

[midnight tea]

Blah. My bad. I misread your post. Apologies!

 

No prob

[midnight tea]

 

DA:O was moderately gray at times but the overarching themes were black and white. From the very beginning of the prologue, Duncan is telling you about the importance of the blight and stopping the big bad, at the end, you stop the big bad. Sure, there are detours, but the course is the same.

 

And in Witcher 3 you try and prevent the Big Bad Frozen Warriors from finding and killing Geralt's foster daughter... *sigh* Just because overarching story has obvious baddies doesn't mean that the story itself is all about those baddies. The devil lies in details. Neither TW nor DA stories are all about pristine heroes just battling forces of evil and to claim that it's like that is just... funny.

[Seraphim24]

Overreacting now much?

Oh, the irony.

 

 

Lol, overreacting even more? I love how you took my short response that basically said "what your'e doing isn't funny" and blown it to some sort of attempts of crushing you.

 

In either case - DA's world is hardly super-serious.... in fact, Bioware's writing reminds me more of original Witcher books (ah, nostalgic here. Witcher was my first 'serious' fantasy, as in Poland it was almost the only fantasy series that was readily available). There's a biting sharpess to Sapkowski's dialogue and humor (even in parts of tale that is fairly lighthearted) that I don't really think the game really got... Maybe I should try and play it in Polish to see if some of it was lost in translation... I'm so used to playing games in English that I automatically default to it.

 

 

HOW is it lower in magic department? Have you read my comments at all? Or did you just skip it, so you could make unfunny jests and feign outrage when people are unresponsive to them?

 

DA is definitely pretty magical, and so is TW, but I don't think literally "magic spells" is the way I would view "magic." Yes, Yennefer has powerful spells, so does Triss, but whereas these magic spells are everywhere, magical creatures or effects or places are quite limited. Most cities are run by people, and peasants, who farm and collect taxes and so on and so forth.

 

If Sile wants to teleport, she has to draw a penetagram, she has to have the necessary components, she has to put it together and use the mirror of whatever thingy. If Anders wants to blow up the chantry, he, heck what does he do? Like point his staff at it?

 

In Dragon Age, the world is literally divided along mythical magical beasts (Archdemons) and their hordes of dark warriors and blight torn areas. Darkspawn aren't "spells" but they are fantastical and pre-eminent. In Inquisition, the game starts with a huge tear in the fabric of space or however someone wants to explain that situation, with demons pouring in left right and center. You are once again, the chosen one, you have mystical magical powers and and you can stop the end of the world.

 

Geralt has potions, silver sword, and a hadouken, that's basically it.

[Zinho73]

I don't mind it in combat as well, but navigation just feels weird - almost twitchy and out of control? Seems like something they could patch easily.

It has a weird momentum to it, but I am totally used to it now.

At the beginning i was bumping into things and overshooting my targets (does that makes sense?), now I am ok, specially after I noticed that I can collect things in the middle of my movement.

Underwater movement on the other hand, I think can improve. Although I am sure it is a bit on purpose, since otherwise it would be too easy to avoid critters in water.

[Seraphim24]

TW nor DA stories are all about pristine heroes just battling forces of evil

 

 

I agree completely, and yet that fact is not incompatible with saying TW is closer to low fantasy and DA closer to Tolkien high fantasy.

[Lethaya]

DA2 had no morality, as distinguished from gray morality (even less complicated than high fantasy) you were the chosen one and you were to crush the city and become Goku, Canadian hipster style. The templars vs mages was a farce designed to placate the fans of BG and DA

 

I literally could not tell you anything about the mages or templars in DA2 after having played it, they were just faceless NPCs basically in the way of my indominatble ascension to being King Kirkwall and shagging the blazes out of as many people as I could.

 

DA:O was moderately gray at times but the overarching themes were black and white. From the very beginning of the prologue, Duncan is telling you about the importance of the blight and stopping the big bad, at the end, you stop the big bad. Sure, there are detours, but the course is the same.

 

The Warden was by far more of a chosen one than Hawke ever was. XD Hawke kind of just... tripped and fell face first into a whole lot of messes. The Warden was hand picked, survived the joining, and was the immediately, regardless of origins, made leaders of Ferelden's various armed forces and tasked with saving the world. Hawke first just tried to make coin to move their mother and sibling out of a hellhole, then got tangled up in the Qunari mess by association, was awarded a title, and again, by association, got shoved between the Templars and Mages and was left to make a choice. As for it being a farce, I actually rather liked it, even if it was ultimately a hopeless situation. Hawke was in over their head, and I enjoyed it for that.

 

Really? The mages like Grace, or that girl Anders always killed, or potentially Bethany. Quentin, Orsino, Anders, that crazy lady who wants to bring back the days of Old Tevntir utilizing some other undercover mage in the Rose. As for Templars - Meredith, Cullen, Thrask, Emeric, Samson, potentially Carver. I had far more sway with any of these characters than I was ever given with the Darkspawn threat.

 

Exactly. Black and white morality is more the staple of high fantasy then grey, which was rather my point. XD

 

EDIT: Oh fun, ninja'd about a million times. I've noticed this tends to happen when I'm involved in a thread you're posting in, midnight_tea, so uh, I blame you completely. ;D

[Lethaya]

I agree completely, and yet that fact is not incompatible with saying TW is closer to low fantasy and DA closer to Tolkien high fantasy.

 

Closer does not make it so, though, no?
 

[Seraphim24]

The Warden was by far more of a chosen one than Hawke ever was. XD Hawke kind of just... tripped and fell face first into a whole lot of messes. The Warden was hand picked, survived the joining, and was the immediately, regardless of origins, made leaders of Ferelden's various armed forces and tasked with saving the world. Hawke first just tried to make coin to move their mother and sibling out of a hellhole, then got tangled up in the Qunari mess by association, was awarded a title, and again, by association, got shoved between the Templars and Mages and was left to make a choice. As for it being a farce, I actually rather liked it, even if it was ultimately a hopeless situation. Hawke was in over their head, and I enjoyed it for that.

 

Really? The mages like Grace, or that girl Anders always killed, or potentially Bethany. Quentin, Orsino, Anders, that crazy lady who wants to bring back the days of Old Tevntir utilizing some other undercover mage in the Rose. As for Templars - Meredith, Cullen, Thrask, Emeric, Samson, potentially Carver. I had far more sway with any of these characters than I was ever given with the Darkspawn threat.

 

Exactly. Black and white morality is more the staple of high fantasy then grey, which was rather my point. XD

 

Grace and Bethany were the only people I remember, everyone else I literally don't remember, Carver I remember was the brother but I don't remember anything about him aside from his haircut, probably because he died in my playthrough.

 

Also there were no "choices" in DA2 you were guaranteed ascension, riches, women (or men, or both), power, status, and a bazillion other things just like in a typical super power fantasy. Hawke was never in over his head at all, the whole story set out to make clear you were guranteed infinite power and success by way of the whole backstory gimmick with Varric and Cassandra. It was a black and white tale purely of one PC's ultimate triumph over everything and everyone.

 

Yes, darkspawn in DA:O made it sort of black and white, but characters like Ser Cauthrien, or Loghain, or those people made more of an impact laterally. I mean consider how you never know the PCs fate all the way until the end of DA:O? It's saying, you might live, you might die, it's left uncertain. In DA2, you know everything that's going to happen, it's airtight, super controlled, icy Tolkien high fantasy-esque (even if the bad guys don't have spikes and black metal armor)

 

I mean really like Sauron was going to win in LOTR.

 

I don't know for sure what's going to happen in Geralt in TW3, I think he'll live, but he might die, I don't know what's going to happen to hardly anyone in TW3, I don't even know if he's going to get any action and all if you screw up the relationships. Everything is precarious and realistic, all you need in DA is enough money and gifts to make people like you ultimately.

 

Closer does not make it so, though, no?
 

 

Why not? Might as well make room for the sake of clarity. The only thing I wouldn't feel comfortable placing in either category is DA:O but even still it's mostly pretty close to a high fantasy category.

[blahblahblah]

Grace and Bethany were the only people I remember, everyone else I literally don't remember, Carver I remember was the brother but I don't remember anything about him aside from his haircut, probably because he died in my playthrough.

 

Also there were no "choices" in DA2 you were guaranteed ascension, riches, women (or men, or both), power, status, and a bazillion other things just like in a typical super power fantasy. Hawke was never in over his head at all, the whole story set out to make clear you were guranteed infinite power and success by way of the whole backstory gimmick with Varric and Cassandra. It was a black and white tale purely of one PC's ultimate triumph over everything and everyone.

 

Yes, darkspawn in DA:O made it sort of black and white, but characters like Ser Cauthrien, or Loghain, or those people made more of an impact laterally. I mean consider how you never know the PCs fate all the way until the end of DA:O? It's saying, you might live, you might die, it's left uncertain. In DA2, you know everything that's going to happen, it's airtight, super controlled, icy Tolkien high fantasy-esque (even if the bad guys don't have spikes and black metal armor)

 

I mean really like Sauron was going to win in LOTR.

 

I don't know for sure what's going to happen in Geralt in TW3, I think he'll live, but he might die, I don't know what's going to happen to hardly anyone in TW3, I don't even know if he's going to get any action and all if you screw up the relationships. Everything is precarious and realistic, all you need in DA is enough money and gifts to make people like you ultimately.

 

 

Why not? Might as well make room for the sake of clarity. The only thing I wouldn't feel comfortable placing in either category is DA:O but even still it's mostly pretty close to a high fantasy category.

LOL. Did you play DA2 or just stupid.

[midnight tea]

DA is definitely pretty magical, and so is TW, but I don't think literally "magic spells" is the way I would view "magic." Yes, Yennefer has powerful spells, so does Triss, but whereas these magic spells are everywhere, magical creatures or effects or places are quite limited. Most cities are run by people, and peasants, who farm and collect taxes and so on and so forth.

 

... And HOW is that different from world of DA exactly? This description fits Thedas perfectly as well - if not more so.

 

 

f Sile wants to teleport, she has to draw a penetagram, she has to have the necessary components, she has to put it together and use the mirror of whatever thingy. If Anders wants to blow up the chantry, he, heck what does he do? Like point his staff at it?I

 

Wow... just wow. The dishonesty in this comparison is astounding. Tell me this - why are you comparing two different things, when there are both teleportation devices and exploding spells in both worlds and both of them have limitations??

Teleportation in DA world is in fact far more obstructed. Aside from eluvians, no known magical spell. symbol or device can teleport anyone anywhere, as laws of the world are pretty much immutable.

 

Also - should I mention that Yen goes to Skellige to investigate magical explosion that leveled half of forest there???? She can also pretty casually throw a spell that explodes things, like bridges or a large portion of battlefield.

 

 

In Dragon Age, the world is literally divided along mythical magical beasts (Archdemons) and their hordes of dark warriors and blight torn areas. Darkspawn aren't "spells" but they are fantastical and pre-eminent. In Inquisition, the game starts with a huge tear in the fabric of space or however someone wants to explain that situation, with demons pouring in left right and center.

 

Yes, because griffins, wraiths or ghouls are TOTALLY not magical.... Even though the prologue itself details how it and magic that bore them came to be and apparently another Conjuction is imminent (how is it different from the Breach and its effects?).

 

And Geralt is hardly just a dude with "potions, silver sword, and a hadouken", and to claim he is such, is so antithetical to the entire Witcher series, I'm ASTOUNDED you say you like the story, seeing how little you know about it.

 

It's especially hilarious if you consider how many magical mutations Witchers have to endure and how harsh training they have to complete in order to become skilled in their profession. The ENTIRE point of Witcher guild is to deal with all things magical by creating magic-enhanced mutants with uber-prolonged lifespan, special abilities, CAT EYES and unrivaled swordsmanship.

 

(add to that the special time-and-space-warping abilities of Ciri and you got yourself a magical world that in itself far more unrestrained in regards of magic than DA)

 

In contrast, the Inquisitor doesn't really have to be anyone magical or special. He/she wields a mysterious mark, that in itself is unique - but that's about it, as far as we know.

[Dreadstruck]

Geralt has potions, silver sword, and a hadouken, that's basically it.

Best description of Aard I have ever read.

[Seraphim24]

LOL. Did you play DA2 or just stupid.

 

DA2 is a lie, they vaporized all sense of inherent moral complexity or grayness and basically pushed to try and succeed entirely on the basis of writing and stuff like that. It went so far outside the sphere of gaming and weird comic goofy inspiration and practically into the realm of a mainstream American TV show.

 

If you look past the theatrics and the histronics and Arishok doing his best imitation of a street thug from a 1950s Hollywood movie, the bare bones of the plot is considerably narrowed and extremely linear and one-dimensional, even compared to superhero Warden.

[Hazegurl]

I love Skyrim, and I also doubt I will finish it.  Because why would I?  What does it really mean to finish a roleplaying game?

I prefer to play games for a story.  If the game has no story then I can careless about running around their world.  TW has story and a world worth exploring.  Like it was stated in the vid, There is no point to doing anything in Skyrim.

 

That really happened? Lol I went to that guy for a shave, it could have went really badly.

 

 It happened. I wish I was recording my gameplay at the time.  It was a funny scene.  I wonder if they added it into the Beards and hair dlc because I went to the barber lots of times during my first pt and this never happened.  The hair style the barber gave me was one from the dlc.  The one I was requesting was one that was already included.  Beware of the drunk with the razor. lol!

[TheOgre]

LOL. Did you play DA2 or just stupid.

 

Can you reframe yourself from resorting to that kind of posting on the forum? If that doesn't get warning points, I don't know what.

 

DA2 is a lie, they vaporized all sense of inherent moral complexity or grayness and basically pushed to try and succeed entirely on the basis of writing and stuff like that. It went so far outside the sphere of gaming and weird comic goofy inspiration and practically into the realm of a mainstream American TV show.

 

You could sell Fenris back to to Tevinter slavery, or allow the Arishok to take Isabelle prisoner back to Qunari lands for god knows what. 

[Seraphim24]

... And HOW is that different from world of DA exactly? This description fits Thedas perfectly as well - if not more so.

 

 

 

 

Wow... just wow. The dishonesty in this comparison is astounding. Tell me this - why are you comparing two different things, when there are both teleportation devices and exploding spells in both worlds and both of them have limitations??

Teleportation in DA world is in fact far more obstructed. Aside from eluvians, no known magical spell. symbol or device can teleport anyone anywhere, as laws of the world are pretty much immutable.

 

Also - should I mention that Yen goes to Skellige to investigate magical explosion that leveled half of forest there???? She can also pretty casually throw a spell that explodes things, like bridges or a large portion of battlefield.

 

 

Yes, because griffins, wraiths or ghouls are TOTALLY not magical.... Even though the prologue itself details how it and magic that bore them came to be and apparently another Conjuction is imminent (how is it different from the Breach and its effects?).

 

And Geralt is hardly just a dude with "potions, silver sword, and a hadouken", and to claim he is such, is so antithetical to the entire Witcher series, I'm ASTOUNDED you say you like the story, seeing how little you know about it.

 

It's especially hilarious if you consider how many magical mutations Witchers have to endure and how harsh training they have to complete in order to become skilled in their profession. The ENTIRE point of Witcher guild is to deal with all things magical by creating magic-enhanced mutants with uber-prolonged lifespan, special abilities, CAT EYES and unrivaled swordsmanship.

 

In contrast, the Inquisitor doesn't really have to be anyone magical or special. He/she wields a mysterious mark, that in itself is unique - but that's about it, as far as we know.

 

You know, I find your passion compelling to be honest, so whatever frustration I am giving you it is at least interesting to me.

 

I think you are making my points for me, to become powerful Witchers endure harsh training and they have to experience extreme training and punishment to gain just a few powers, the Inquisitor just shows up and starts blowing up things, no harsh training, no sense of reality, nothing, just, magical, period.

 

Plus, as you say the laws in DA are immutable, that makes them more high fantasy to me than anything, harsh lines, X is bad, Y is good, magic can't be used, magic can be used, it's all stock. In TW yeah maybe a mage can teleport, but it's complicated, yeah maybe a mage can blow up a half an island, but it's unusual and it takes a second look.

 

It's not just gravity of magic, but the kinds and types of magic.

 

 

Can you reframe yourself from resorting to that kind of posting on the forum? If that doesn't get warning points, I don't know what.

 

 

People are entitled to their opinions, I could be missing something about DA2, but from my perspective it just wasn't high fantasy or low fantasy, it just sucked. That, I know, from my perspective the problems start with the trailer where it's like action movie Michael Bay Goku challenging the Arishok in duel combat I'm like what? Where's the moral complexity? Where's the shifting gray lines?

[Lethaya]

Grace and Bethany were the only people I remember, everyone else I literally don't remember, Carver I remember was the brother but I don't remember anything about him aside from his haircut, probably because he died in my playthrough.

 

Also there were no "choices" in DA2 you were guaranteed ascension, riches, women (or men, or both), power, status, and a bazillion other things just like in a typical super power fantasy. Hawke was never in over his head at all, the whole story set out to make clear you were guranteed infinite power and success by way of the whole backstory gimmick with Varric and Cassandra. It was a black and white tale purely of one PC's ultimate triumph over everything and everyone.

 

Yes, darkspawn in DA:O made it sort of black and white, but characters like Ser Cauthrien, or Loghain, or those people made more of an impact laterally. I mean consider how you never know the PCs fate all the way until the end of DA:O? It's saying, you might live, you might die, it's left uncertain. In DA2, you know everything that's going to happen, it's airtight, super controlled, icy Tolkien high fantasy-esque (even if the bad guys don't have spikes and black metal armor)

 

Why not? Might as well make room for the sake of clarity. The only thing I wouldn't feel comfortable placing in either category is DA:O but even still it's mostly pretty close to a high fantasy category.

 

Welp. I recalled all of those off the top of my head, so we'll have to chalk that up to personal biases, I suppose. XD

 

There were, choices, actually. You could make them. They effected the story of the game or your characters in some way, thus, choices. Were they as epic or large scale? Nope, but that kinda just serves my point. Hawke deals with political messes and angry people with swords, The Warden deals with thrones and Archdemons and their hordes. Higher stakes, more mythical beasties (Archdemon is a corrupted god, for that matter), bit closer to High Fantasy - in my mind, anyways. Also? Maybe that's how things went for your Hawke, but mine wound up being chased out of Kirkwall, thus losing all they had worked for over the years, after losing one of her siblings and her mother. Not all that successful in my book. XD

 

I didn't know what was going to happen at all, actually. I started in with an escapee from the Blight, ran into (a wrecked) Anders again, defeated the Qunari, and then Anders went AWOL and everything went to, ah... hell in a handbasket. XD In DA:O I was fairly certain from the start the blight was going to be defeated, after I gained all the treaties, of course, and that most likely it'd be at the hand of my PC. If anything, I didn't even realize death was on the table until Riordan brought it up. Besides the sort of death that forces a reload, anyway.

 

Because just because something is closer to something else doesn't make it the same? XD Look, if I'm ten feet away from a river, and I take two steps towards it, my feet still aren't wet, yeah?

 

 

Most cities are run by people, and peasants, who farm and collect taxes and so on and so forth.

 

If Sile wants to teleport, she has to draw a penetagram, she has to have the necessary components, she has to put it together and use the mirror of whatever thingy. If Anders wants to blow up the chantry, he, heck what does he do? Like point his staff at it?

 

Alright, wait a moment.

 

On the first point, the same is true of Dragon Age. Ever play The Last Court? Literally all about that kinda stuff. That aside, you see it with the court of Ferelden and its banns, the Cousland origin; DA is made up of plenty of everyday people, they're just not the main focus. Bigger things at play. But Denerim was still run by a King and his court, Redcliffe by its Arl and his family, Kirkwall by its Viscount and nobility and city guard, Orzammar by its deshyrs and King. No magic there, just politics, and ordinary people scraping by to make it work.

 

Second, did you play the game...? Sorry, it's just that... was a whole quest? XD Anders sent you out (well, went with you, really) to collect a bunch of things he needed for some get-well-quick potion he apparently rediscovered that could get rid of the voice in his head, you collect them all, he tells you he lied but won't give you the details, and later on, boom. Bye-bye Chantry.

 

He made an explosive, planted it, and then waited out however long it took to set itself off. No staff-pointing required, I'm afraid.

 

EDIT: Also, unless I'm mistaken, DA having more limitations on its magic system is the opposite of high fantasy. Typically low fantasy is the one with more magical limitation, and high fantasy have larger scale and more... well, just more. Magic in Tolkien, for instance, is pretty unlimited. Or vague, at least.

[midnight tea]

I prefer to play games for a story.  If the game has no story then I can careless about running around their world.  TW has story and a world worth exploring.  Like it was stated in the vid, There is no point to doing anything in Skyrim.

 

If you don't find enjoyment in having some creative freedom in game and just prefer to be spectator - so be it. Everybody's different. But just because you don't enjoy it, doesn't mean others didn't too. Making sweeping generalizations like yours only makes you look bad.

[Seraphim24]

 

Can you reframe yourself from resorting to that kind of posting on the forum? If that doesn't get warning points, I don't know what.

 

 

You could sell Fenris back to to Tevinter slavery, or allow the Arishok to take Isabelle prisoner back to Qunari lands for god knows what. 

 

 

Yeah I literally don't remember what I did with Isabella, I barely remember that even happened, maybe I let her be killed? Was that an option? Or I saved her and killed the Arishok? That sounds right, I cared so little about either in any event.

 

Same with Fenris, he just whined a bunch (like all the damn DA2 characters), I'm pretty sure I killed the slavers though.

 

I mean does that even count as a choice? Lets see, side with the brutal slavemaster warlord or your friend............................

 

To be honest TW does this also, but Roche and Iorveth for example was a pretty interesting one for all kinds of reasons.

[Hazegurl]

If you don't find enjoyment in having some creative freedom in game and just prefer to be spectator - so be it. Everybody's different. But just because you don't enjoy it, doesn't mean others didn't too. Making sweeping generalizations like yours only makes you look bad.

Salty much?  Everything I said about Skyrim is my own opinion.  Saying it sucks, boring, unfinishable is hardly generalizing the game.  The only creative freedom in Skyrim is adding mods.  Other than that you are just running around the world, killing things and collecting junk. If I want to run around an environment doing mundane tasks I'd just go outside and run errands.  Real life has better graphics too. 

 

And I would hardly consider being involved in a story enriched game as being a spectator.  In a story, you are involved in the events taking place, you are planning, making preparations, and speaking to important people. There is a goal and something to accomplish.   The only spectating done is in Skyrim where you just run around their world pretending your doing something grand.

-------------------------------

 

As for the DA2 discussion, I do think DA2 marked the start of most of our choices being taken away.  But unlike DAI they at least tried to tell a more realistic story where the hero just doesn't change the entire world by walking into a room and telling people to change.  You can side with the Templars to restore order knowing that some innocent mages will get killed, you can sell Fenris into slavery, murder knife Anders, Hand Isabella over, kill Merrill's clan, and sell that dreamer half elf kid to a demon.  Not as much as DAO but they had more options than DAI at least. 

 

I can only imagine what DA4 will be like.  They'll probably only throw in two choices and litter the world with fetch quest notes.

[TheOgre]

Yeah I literally don't remember what I did with Isabella, I barely remember that even happened, maybe I let her be killed? Was that an option? Or I saved her and killed the Arishok? That sounds right, I cared so little about either in any event.

 

Same with Fenris, he just whined a bunch (like all the damn DA2 characters), I'm pretty sure I killed the slavers though.

 

I mean does that even count as a choice? Lets see, side with the brutal slavemaster warlord or your friend............................

 

To be honest TW does this also, but Roche and Iorveth for example was a pretty interesting one for all kinds of reasons.

 

I didn't like Fenris as a character honestly. I didn't throw him to the slavers though. I didn't appreciate Isabelle stealing from the Qunari either one of their sacred books, but I defeated the Arishok, forced her to hand back over the tome, and sent the Qunari back to their lands with only the book. It's just my opinion but I felt like they had good decisions in DA2.

[Lethaya]

 Same. It was the manner in which the writing was presented that was more the issue with DA2, I think.

 

Yeah I literally don't remember what I did with Isabella, I barely remember that even happened, maybe I let her be killed? Was that an option? Or I saved her and killed the Arishok? That sounds right, I cared so little about either in any event.

 

Same with Fenris, he just whined a bunch (like all the damn DA2 characters), I'm pretty sure I killed the slavers though.

 

I mean does that even count as a choice? Lets see, side with the brutal slavemaster warlord or your friend............................

 

To be honest TW does this also, but Roche and Iorveth for example was a pretty interesting one for all kinds of reasons.

 

She might not have even shown up. She only showed up to help you in that fight if you'd gained her friendship by that point.

 

Nah, Fenris got drunk sometimes, that could be fun! ;D But agreed mostly on that. Personally, I found it amusing... still. Varric didn't whine. Aveline didn't either (to me anyway). Nor did Bethany.

 

As Fenris could be your rival, it would be a choice, yes. An evil, terrible choice, but hey, some people are into that, I guess.

 

Hurm. Doesn't seem like you recall that much about the game. Might not be the best thing for you to argue about from a storytelling perspective? XD

 

EDIT: Ninja'd twice, curses. D:

[Seraphim24]

Welp. I recalled all of those off the top of my head, so we'll have to chalk that up to personal biases, I suppose. XD

 

There were, choices, actually. You could make them. They effected the story of the game or your characters in some way, thus, choices. Were they as epic or large scale? Nope, but that kinda just serves my point. Hawke deals with political messes and angry people with swords, The Warden deals with thrones and Archdemons and their hordes. Higher stakes, more mythical beasties (Archdemon is a corrupted god, for that matter), bit closer to High Fantasy - in my mind, anyways. Also? Maybe thats how things went for your Hawke, but mine wound up being chased out of Kirkwall, thus losign all they had worked for over the years, after losing one of her siblings and her mother. Not all that successful in my book. XD

 

I didn't know what was goign to happen at all, actually. I started in with an escapee from the Blight, ran into a wrecked Anders again, defeated the Qunari, and then Anders went AWOL and everything went to hell in a handbasket. XD In DA:O I was fairly certain from the start the blight was going to be defeated, after I gained all the treaties, of course, and that most likely it'd be at the hand of my PC. If anything, I didn't realize death was on the table until Riordan brought it up. Besides the worst of death that forces a reload, anyway.

 

Because just because something is closer to somethign else doesn't make it the same? XD Look, if I'm ten feet away from a river, and I take two steps towards it, my feet still aren't wet, yeah?

 

Edit: Because apparently some people can't really take a joke.....

 

Actually Super Mario World 2 probably had more moral complexity by virtue of having Bowser be this kind of unwilling antagonist who is merely upset that you came in and disrupted his nap time, it's unclear whether he truly hates you or things need to come to blows or whether Kamek was egging him on, plus your quest isn't about saving the world it's about protecting your brother Luigi.

 

I wish I wasn't being serious in some ways, but I mean, I kinda am to be honest.

 

Alright, wait a moment.

 

On the first point, the same is true of Dragon Age. Ever play The Last Court? Literally all about that kinda stuff. That aside, you see it with the court of Ferelden and its banns, the Cousland origin; DA is made up of plenty of everyday people, they're just not the main focus. Bigger things at play. But Denerim was still run by a King and his court, Redcliffe by its Arl and his family, Kirkwall by its Viscount and nobility and city guard, Orzammar by its deshyrs and King. No magic there, just politics, and ordinary people scraping by to make it work.

 

Second, did you play the game...? Sorry, it's just that... was a whole quest? XD Anders sent you out (well, went with you, really) to collect a bunch of things he needed for some get-well-quick potion he apparently rediscovered that could get rid of the voice in his head, you collect them all, he tells you he lied but won't give you the details, and later on, boom. Bye-bye Chantry.

 

He made an explosive, planted it, and then waited out however long it took to set itself off. No staff-pointing required, I'm afraid.

 

EDIT: Also, unless I'm mistaken, DA having more limitations on its magic system is the opposite of high fantasy. Typically low fantasy is the one with more magical limitation, and high fantasy have larger scale and more... well, just more. Magic in Tolkien, for instance, is pretty unlimited. Or vague, at least.

 

Ah yes, we went to the supermarket and put things in his cart, super nuclear mage bomb in aisle 3 sort of affair. Was the Last Court DLC? If so no because DLC is all bull**** and I've never bought any.

 

 

 

Hurm. Doesn't seem like you recall that much about the game. Might not be the best thing for you to argue about from a storytelling perspective? XD

 

I remember that I didn't like it, it was like for some reason the disappointment from BG --> DA needed to be amplified for some reason... it just really wasn't fun for me.

 

I liked Bethany all right, and... Grace.... and......... the Ander's blowing up the chantry..... the rest... not really a fan is all.