15883 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Without wading back into the muck I don't think TW3 failed to give effect to TW2s ending, in the sense that TW2 itself made it clear that the Nilfgaard invasion would whipe away the board. Where I think the disappointment lies is in how they treated the consequences of what you did in the Pontar Valley. They cleared the board there in a way that I think was a bit contrived, but no more than anything that Bioware's done in the past.

[VelvetV]

It's pretty much a guarantee your friend has never and will never face a whit of actual 'brutality' in her life, let alone respond to it in any sort of capable fashion.

 

True. As far as I know, she faced only minor abuse on a personal level, like teasing.

 

I've known people in real life who chose very humane activities and jobs. Like, one woman who consciously devoted herself to tending to terminally ill patients. I wouldn't be capable of that psychologically myself. People slowly die in suffering in front of her and there's no hope to help them medically. What kind of rose-tinted glasses could she be wearing? All glasses break in the face of reality of what she sees.

 

When readers nod and smile along to this sort of fiction, they get to pretend to be little philosophers who understand the world for how it 'really is.' They get to pretend among the ranks of a rare few enlightened and pragmatic to face the 'brutality and unfairness' of the world and get ahead.

 

 

Do you think this could be the reason for the current trend of fascination with gritty worlds and scummy characters? People live too well, especially in countries that produce large portions of mass entertainment that others copy, like the US? Hmmm.

 

I have to admit I always feel strange when people crave for characters to be mistreated. Like in this thread people said that in DA:I they didn't feel like elves were mistreated enough. Personally I've got enough of bad things in life and I've seen enough mistreatment of others, not wanting it in the game, thank you very much. But for some it might feel exotic or like a revelation of deeper truth about how reality is. Hmmm.

[Zinho73]

But I agree with another poster that debating domestic animals and locales is nonsensical. 

Well, I think it is as nonsensical as debating hair styles, or the size of the worlds (since both are big). It is all about immersion and world building. It is not essential, but it is cool.

 

And although I understand DAI is enough for you, TW3 does it better. It is not even a contest.

 

Not only because of the animals, but the houses, the size of the cities, the NPC daily activities, the buildings and structures that are placed in a way that makes sense, the weather changes, the night and day cycles and so on. The variety of animals is just an example of the level of detail they were willing to do.

 

Honestly "Good enough" may perfectly describe Bioware commitment to their game. "The best we can do" feels more like the CD Project approach.

 

And I am not saying that to be aggressive or "smart". This is honestly my impression. Of course, one can find one game much better than the other and that's fine.

 

I do think TW 3 is a much better game (much, much better), but let´s say, for the sake of argument, that the games have similar merits. In that case, CD Projekt would be Rocky Balboa and Bioware Apollo Creed.

 

The guys at CD Projekt are simply committed to their game in a whole different level than Bioware and it shows. In a week after launch they have already addressed all the criticisms the game received in patches and in interviews. It took Bioware four months to correct serious stability issues with the game (it only stopped crashing for me and several others after patch 6) and some complaints were not even addressed at all (like the broken-armed elves).

 

And the banter still does not work properly for many people, and... Argh, I give up.

[Han Shot First]

Only based on what has been seen on vids, one may move continually in TW3; areas are pocketed in DAI. Here is one such vid:


 

 

It is divided into maps the same as DA:I is. When you get to the edge of a map you get taken to the world map where you can then fast travel somewhere else if you choose. But you can't run straight from one zone to the next.

[Das Tentakel]

It is divided into maps the same as DA:I is. When you get to the edge of a map you get taken to the world map where you can then fast travel somewhere else if you choose. But you can't run straight from one zone to the next.

 

You're right on principle, but there are some major differences between the zones themselves. Two zones are massive and represent 'integrated landscapes' with towns, cities, countryside etc. White Orchard is basically a miniature version of those, and Kaer Morhen and its hinterland may be another one. DA:I's zones, on the other hand, are either large but mostly uninhabited MMO-ish feeling zones, each designed around its own mostly unitarian 'look' and mood,or are smaller, highly linear areas like the Mire, the Wilds, Val Royeaux etc. that are more like the old BioWarian zones (indeed, some may even have migrated from the old engine as leftovers of the cancelled DA2 expansion / early stages of DA3's development).

 

That gives these zones a very different feel and 'flow' compared to Witcher III's more natural-feeling landscapes. The latter look and feel more open, and the two large ones totally dwarf DA:I's zones.

[Han Shot First]

How did travel between different areas in Red Dead Redemption work? It has been so long since I've played that game that I can't remember. If I were to compare The Witcher 3 to any open world game however, that is the one it most reminded me of. TW3 might be a RPG like Skyrim and DA:I, but the game world feels a lot more alive and fleshed out in TW3 than it was in either of those two games. In that it reminds me of RDR.

[SnakeCode]

How did travel between different areas in Red Dead Redemption work? It has been so long since I've played that game that I can't remember. If I were to compare The Witcher 3 to any open world game however, that is the one it most reminded me of. TW3 might be a RPG like Skyrim and DA:I, but the game world feels a lot more alive and fleshed out in TW3 than it was in either of those two games. In that it reminds me of RDR.

 

Like GTA. It was all on one map, with certain areas being inaccessible until you reached a certain point in the story. They were unlocked via bridges being fixed iirc. Except the first time travelling to Mexico, which was on a raft.

[Spectre Impersonator]

The horse mechanics really feel a lot like (and I assume are heavily influenced by) those in Red Dead Redemption. I don't know if you ever played it but it feels very similar. These two games are the only two games I can think of that makes riding a mount a satisfactory experience.

I agree, though I slightly give the edge to Red Dead in terms of best mount system ever. I think it was the most organic and intuitive, not to mention it looked fantastic. The horses' haunches would even jiggle realistically. You could also lasso and tame new mounts and ride a multitude of things with different stats.

 

On another note, has anyone playing The Witcher 3 noticed how consistent the fashions between various nations are? I'm not talking about basic stuff like all mages in DAI wearing robes or templars are wearing the same model armor, but when Geralt is first introduced to Emperor Tywin, the Nilfgaardian groomer says he needs a shave as beards are a symbol of uncultured behavior and lack of education or something in Nilfgaard. After this, we encounter many a clean-shaven Nilfgaardian, including the Emperor. Even outside of their stronghold in Vizima, the officers of the Empire are shaved, like that garrison commander in White Orchard. Pretty nice detail IMO, not to mention each of these characters has a very memorable, highly detailed face.

[Elhanan]

@ Zinho73

You are correct in that there is no contest; never was meant to be one as they are different types of games. The largest difference for me is that I am able to play one; cannot play the other. One I am willing to play; content chosen to be in the other makes me take a pass.

[Zinho73]

@ Zinho73

You are correct in that there is no contest; never was meant to be one as they are different types of games. The largest difference for me is that I am able to play one; cannot play the other. One I am willing to play; content chosen to be in the other makes me take a pass.

Fair enough. Best.

[Saphiron123]

Again, am not hating on the game, but on some of the objectionable content they have chosen to include. Do not have to purchase a pizza with anchovies to know I would not like that pizza.

Am only speaking for myself....

Play the game dude, you're viewing the objectionable content out of context. If you don't play it, you don't really know anything about it or how it's presented.

[KBomb]

Wyvernet, there are many characters like Baron in TW3 and this is intentional. To my own grief, as I didn't know what I was getting into when I waited for this game. The first two games in the series were normal, and although there were many "hard decisons", they were hard because you could sympathize with both sides. This one makes you hate the majority of all "sides" and characters instead, and not just major ones, but even some minor inconsequential ones in minor sidequests. Heck, it makes you hate even simple NPCs when you hear their chatter sometimes!  *shrug* So as much as I agree with you, I'm sure that CDPR is more than conscious and happy to portray people as scumbags. People love it, as you can see in this thread, they call it "adult" and "realistic", and it's one of the game's selling points.

 

And yeah I too would love to see a game portray awful people in a way they deserve rather than try to excuse them. It's such a rehashed thing to pull out a skeleton out of someone's closet, I'm sick of how every book and movie tries to do it these days. It's like literature and other forms of entertainment nowadays go in the direction of showcasing all the dirt inside. At some point it might've been a novelty, but ultimately it serves no purpose and I can't see the appeal anymore. Why are characters portrayed like dumb puppets of their own past? So ok, this guy is bad because he was abused, but what's the next step, is he going to stop being the dumb puppet or not? That is more interesting to see, but the change rarely gets explored seriously. Yet we as people have that wonderful thing called free will and can choose how to develop.

 

We're probably the minority, I start to think. People who're fed up with scumbags in real life and have no fascination with them and don't think that spilling dirt makes a character "adult".

 

P.S. I just remembered how I had a discussion on this topic once with a person who tried to defend a very cruel character by saying that after the kind of life he had he is supposed to be cruel and that it makes him a mature character. She believed that being kind and compassionate means that a person wears rose-tinted glasses and hasn't matured yet. I tried to defend an opposite point, saying that maturation comes past this stage, after someone becomes cruel in response to bad life, when they realize that behavior of others towards them doesn't define them and they can choose how to live on their own. It was a nice conversation, although ultimately fruitless on both sides.

How did TW3 try to excuse the Baron's actions? I think it did a very thorough job of showing what an ass he was. The mission wasn't about exposing the Baron as being an abuser. With every submission, it told you a story of the dysfunctional family and how it was wrecked and the consequences of it. 

 

It isn't about reveling in misfortune, but if the story is focused around elves being mistreated, then yeah-- people expect to see it. If the story tells you a village has been ransacked and burned down, people expect to see it. If you're going to put in the effort to tell a story, whether uplifting or war-torn, then put in the effort to make the player believe it. 

 

It seems you want a game that allows you to go around handing out judgements and punishments to every horrible person you come across. If so, then TW3 isn't the game for you. If you want a game that has happy, healthy and mentally sound people abound, you shouldn't have bought a game involving war. 

 

 

The first two games in the series were normal, and although there were many "hard decisons", they were hard because you could sympathize with both sides.

 

In the Baron quest, you could choose to show empathy for the situation and help set it right and you could choose to show contempt and repulsiveness. I think the story did a good job of showing both sides of that coin. I just find it odd that when discussing this particular mission, Anna is never called a "scumbag" or as "irredeemable"

 

This game is set in a time where peasants were uneducated, people are burned at the stake and fear ruled the day. Sounds pretty realistic when compared to medieval life. It was a brutal time. 

 

 People who're fed up with scumbags in real life and have no fascination with them and don't think that spilling dirt makes a character "adult".

 

This is such a generalized and condescending statement. It's like those silly statements that the only reason people want romance in games is because they have none in real life. Stop being so judgemental. That doesn't make an "adult" character in games either, or real life. 

[Saphiron123]

You're right on principle, but there are some major differences between the zones themselves. Two zones are massive and represent 'integrated landscapes' with towns, cities, countryside etc. White Orchard is basically a miniature version of those, and Kaer Morhen and its hinterland may be another one. DA:I's zones, on the other hand, are either large but mostly uninhabited MMO-ish feeling zones, each designed around its own mostly unitarian 'look' and mood,or are smaller, highly linear areas like the Mire, the Wilds, Val Royeaux etc. that are more like the old BioWarian zones (indeed, some may even have migrated from the old engine as leftovers of the cancelled DA2 expansion / early stages of DA3's development).

That gives these zones a very different feel and 'flow' compared to Witcher III's more natural-feeling landscapes. The latter look and feel more open, and the two large ones totally dwarf DA:I's zones.

More importantly, they feel relevant to the story. And it's damn nice to be in towns and cities again after DAI decided civilization was a waste of time and resources.

[Elhanan]

Play the game dude, you're viewing the objectionable content out of context. If you don't play it, you don't really know anything about it or how it's presented.

Not quite. Saw some of it in context with various vids and promos. Too much profanity for me to give it a go yet; maybe later with a mod or some other fix. And without Pause, no chance....

[KBomb]

I agree, though I slightly give the edge to Red Dead in terms of best mount system ever. I think it was the most organic and intuitive, not to mention it looked fantastic. The horses' haunches would even jiggle realistically. You could also lasso and tame new mounts and ride a multitude of things with different stats.

 

On another note, has anyone playing The Witcher 3 noticed how consistent the fashions between various nations are? I'm not talking about basic stuff like all mages in DAI wearing robes or templars are wearing the same model armor, but when Geralt is first introduced to Emperor Tywin, the Nilfgaardian groomer says he needs a shave as beards are a simple of uncultured behavior and lack of education or something in Nilfgaard. After this, we encounter many a clean-shaven Nilfgaardian, including the Emperor. Even outside of their stronghold in Vizima, the officers of the Empire are shaved, like that garrison commander in White Orchard. Pretty nice detail IMO, not to mention each of these characters has a very memorable, highly detailed face.

I love RDR and TW3 does have a lot of it's flavor. Riding around on Roach is a great part of the game. I love that you can scan for important items, fight while mounted and actually traverse at a speed you'd expect to be faster than running on foot. I also like the interaction between Roach and Geralt. Though, sometimes Geralt is a little too bossy. "Not so fast, Roach.", then "Go, Roach!" I suppose that is more my fault because I am not consistent with my speed. I start off fast, see something that catches my interest and then slow him down. I bet Roach secretly hates me and is just waiting for the chance to buck me.

[Seraphim24]

How did TW3 try to excuse the Baron's actions? I think it did a very thorough job of showing what an ass he was. The mission wasn't about exposing the Baron as being an abuser. With every submission, it told you a story of the dysfunctional family and how it was wrecked and the consequences of it. 

 

It isn't about reveling in misfortune, but if the story is focused around elves being mistreated, then yeah-- people expect to see it. If the story tells you a village has been ransacked and burned down, people expect to see it. If you're going to put in the effort to tell a story, whether uplifting or war-torn, then put in the effort to make the player believe it. 

 

It seems you want a game that allows you to go around handing out judgements and punishments to every horrible person you come across. If so, then TW3 isn't the game for you. If you want a game that has happy, healthy and mentally sound people abound, you shouldn't have bought a game involving war. 

 

One thing I've learned about people is the people who are guilty of the same crimes are often the first to condemn something or be harsh against it (in order to distance attention from themselves), and the fact that CDPR is showing different angles to the issue is actually a sign that they have full grasp of the issue. Forgiving is a sign of tremendous strength and power, something I think Bioware still struggles with a lot of the time.

[FKA_Servo]

Not quite. Saw some of it in context with various vids and promos. Too much profanity for me to give it a go yet; maybe later with a mod or some other fix. And without Pause, no chance....

 

Experience modding PC games suggest that mods and fixes will generally aim at making the game more profane.

 

Which isn't a value judgement, either way. Gamers are just funny is all.

[Han Shot First]

The baron's voice actor should end up in a DA game. He was excellent. 

[DiamondBarJohn]

True; vulgarity has become more common in DA2 and DAI, and I am all for that being removed, too. For that example, I re-loaded the game and chose another option, as this response was so out of the character I had chosen to play, as well as conflicted with the mood of the scene.

But I was able to keep the major transgressors side-lined in DAI and ME3; this is found more frequently in TW3 and cannot be avoided.

 

Thankfully, these so-called "profane" words are becoming more and more commonplace in everyday speech, and will soon be seen as just as normal as any other words.  Because, of course, they are.

[Das Tentakel]

I agree, though I slightly give the edge to Red Dead in terms of best mount system ever. I think it was the most organic and intuitive, not to mention it looked fantastic. The horses' haunches would even jiggle realistically. You could also lasso and tame new mounts and ride a multitude of things with different stats.

On another note, has anyone playing The Witcher 3 noticed how consistent the fashions between various nations are? I'm not talking about basic stuff like all mages in DAI wearing robes or templars are wearing the same model armor, but when Geralt is first introduced to Emperor Tywin, the Nilfgaardian groomer says he needs a shave as beards are a simple of uncultured behavior and lack of education or something in Nilfgaard. After this, we encounter many a clean-shaven Nilfgaardian, including the Emperor. Even outside of their stronghold in Vizima, the officers of the Empire are shaved, like that garrison commander in White Orchard. Pretty nice detail IMO, not to mention each of these characters has a very memorable, highly detailed face.

The Nilfgaardians and the Nordlings are a nice example of different, but related groups with different, but similar cultures and fashion styles. There's some similarity here between, say, the black-clad, severe-looking Spanish nobles of the 16th century and their far more disorderly, flamboyantly dressed peers from Germany (including the Low Countries).



Fernando Álvarez de Toledo y Pimentel, Duke of Alva, 'the Iron Duke' (he once reported in a letter his son's success in wiping out the rebellious city of Naarden in the Netherlands with the comment '...not one child escaped alive').



Reinoud III, Lord of Brederode and Vianen. Liked the colour red and supposedly lost a good chunk of his holdings in a game of dice with one of the Mayors of Amsterdam...
Also fathered at least 10 known illegitimate children.

Nilfgaard seems to have many sources of inspiration (including some really modern ones), but Imperial Spain feels like one of them.

I have to say that I seem to remember that the Nilfgaardian noblewomen in Vizima and the Northern noblebwomen are similarly dressed, however. Anyway, if Nilfgaard and the Northern Kingdoms are anything like late medieval / early modern Europe, fashions would quickly spread, combine and change anyway.

[untuvainen]

This game is so LONG. I like it though. Also Blackwall's VA does huge amount of voice acting for the male charaters. And F!Hawke as adooorable Ciri. She's such a badass.

Lots of interesting side quests, liking especially the ones in Skellige.

Spoiler

Who's baby did just get thrown in to the oven?! Also bringing back to life that poor lad who helped Ciri felt so.. wrong. The way he screamed.

[Elhanan]

Experience modding PC games suggest that mods and fixes will generally aim at making the game more profane.
 
Which isn't a value judgement, either way. Gamers are just funny is all.

True, though nudity and sex seem to be more of a particular choice for mods as a rule. But as Skyrim and NWN1 have shown me, do not count out mod authors from making any particular content.

[FKA_Servo]

Thankfully, these so-called "profane" words are becoming more and more commonplace in everyday speech, and will soon be seen as just as normal as any other words.  Because, of course, they are.

 

Agreed, though it's a bit of a shame. Personally, I regard the deftly employed profanity as one of life's great pleasures.

[Han Shot First]

The whole deal with some words being considered profane is ridiculous anyway. Why should one word be considered any worse than another, when they mean the exact same thing? 

[Elhanan]

Thankfully, these so-called "profane" words are becoming more and more commonplace in everyday speech, and will soon be seen as just as normal as any other words.  Because, of course, they are.

Common is the key; of mediocre or inferior quality; mean; low. It improves nothing, and degrades purposely.