357 réponses à ce sujet

[Mykel54]

He leaves the templar order because they weren´t doing anything worth it after the Kirkwall´s circle fell, so with the inquisition he feels he can help the world more, i´m fine with him leaving temporarily to resolve the crisis. I´m talking more about when the game ends.

He says that some of the harsh stuff he saw as a templar disturbs him, and that "i want nothing to do with that life". To me that sounds a lot like a grey warden seeing a broodmother or ogre and going "****, this is too scary for me, i´m leaving the order. wait i´m still tainted.."

That´s the thing with Cullen, if he cures his lyrium addiction then he is no longer a templar, he effectively left the order because he no longer liked it in there, and got away with it. Do you think that sets a good precedent? Should templars be able to quit when they decide they had enough? In the military, that would be deserting.

It sounds like the lyrium addiction is what keeps them on the job, even when it becomes hard to bear, same way that the wardens put up with a lot of crap because they must - if the taint was cured, most would quit like Fiona, and do something else that fight darkspawn until they themselves become a ghoul.

I see a lot of similarities between these two orders, like both being warriors who make sacrifices, and who endure hard things normal soldiers could not. It cheapens the sacrifice if someone can just decide to quit when they no longer like it.

What do you think about Cullen and his decision to both quit the templars and taking lyrium?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, the Chantry hierarchy had splintered in various factions. There was no clear right way to go. He remained loyal to the Divine when most of the rest of the Templars rebelled.

[General TSAR]

More like a defector. 

[Master Warder Z_]

He's a deserter.

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't remember anything saying Templar's are bound to serve forever. Surely he just stops getting paid and getting lyrium. It's called resigning, not deserting.

[Joe25]

He is a hippie dancing naked under the moonlight wile being high as a kite on lyrium.  

[thats1evildude]

He resigned. You can resign from military posts. The only difficulty with leaving the templars is dealing with the lyrium withdrawal.

[DirkJake]

Good for him, I say. He's a better person when he's no longer a part of Templar order.

[Killdren88]

Yeah he is..but its okay its fun to watch him go through Lyrium withdrawal.

[phaonica]

If the Wardens became as corrupt as the Templars did, I'd be fine with people 'deserting' the Wardens, too.

[Cespar]

Yeah he is..but its okay its fun to watch him go through Lyrium withdrawal.

It's never "fun" to watch someone go through a drug withdrawal .

[MoonDrummer]

It's never "fun" to watch someone go through a drug withdrawal .

It is when its Cullen.

[Master Warder Z_]

I don't remember anything saying Templar's are bound to serve forever. Surely he just stops getting paid and getting lyrium. It's called resigning, not deserting.

Unless if his dismissal was approved by the Order or Chantry he deserted.

That's a punishable crime.

[Sah291]

Maybe... But so what if he is? If the Templars were too corrupt by that point and he left as a result of thinking so, that doesn't make him a bad person. I didn't get the impression he did it just to run away from his duty, or that he was being a coward, or anything like that, but that he left on moral principle.

[The Baconer]

Unless if his dismissal was approved by the Order or Chantry he deserted.

That's a punishable crime.

 

There was no organized structure with the authority to approve or deny it at the time. 

[Br3admax]

Cullen was recruited by Cassandra to serve the Inquisition, which was still very much a part of the Chantry,and served the Divine. He's no more a deserter than anyone else there. And considering the Divine told them to leave, that means not at all. 

[KaiserShep]

Unless if his dismissal was approved by the Order or Chantry he deserted.

That's a punishable crime.

 

Punishable by whom? The Chantry's leadership is in shambles, with little more than scrambling clerics, and the Templar order itself deserted the Chantry and indeed the rest of Thedas, and a demon led them by the nose to get force-fed magical super crack. Whatever Cullen could have been accused of by the start of the story was no longer relevant with the fact that the Left and Right hands of the Divine recruited him.

 

Heck, the Inquisitor was accused of a crime by one of these clerics, and Cassandra tells him all but to f*ck off.

[Master Warder Z_]

Uh I'm assuming that in Thedas desertion on moral principle is still desertion.

Like in real-life.

[Master Warder Z_]

Punishable by whom?

That's your point?

It really isn't much of one.

[Br3admax]

Uh I'm assuming that in Thedas desertion on moral principle is still desertion.

Like in real-life.

If Divine writ says he can leave, he can leave. That's his superior, which he himself points out. 

[Master Warder Z_]

There was no organized structure with the authority to approve or deny it at the time.

Irrelevant and that makes it worse not better.

It's desertion when you're actually needed.

[Cantina]

Cullen is not a deserter.

 

Did you play DAO?

 

Within this game Cullen is imprisoned, force to watch his friends die and tortured by Blood Mages.

 

Instead of throwing in the towel and despite his changed views on Mages, he stayed in the order.  

 

However do to the trauma Cullen endured he was transferred to Kirkwall. Then his Knight-Commander went mad and The Chantry was destroyed.

 

Again Cullen did not leave The Order.

 

In the book Dragon Age: Asunder is when all hell broke loose with the Order.

 

Divine Justina wanted Templar to back down and give Mages a bit more freedom. Templars opposed this, and Lord Seeker Lambert dissolved the Nevarran Accord. Templars pretty much gave The Chantry the finger and left to hunt down Mages.

 

Cullen while understanding their frustration did not agree with how the Order chose to abandon The Chantry.

 

When Cassandra approached Cullen with the offer to join the Inquisition and lead its forces, he accepted. Why? Between two mentally changing events and The Order abandoning The Chantry, Cullen took the offer.

 

Cullen did not simply just leave. He resigned. There is a big difference between deserting and resigning.

 

A person who deserts just ups and leaves without so much as a word said to anyone.

 

A person who resigns makes sure to let the proper higher-ups know they are and why - Cullen did this.

 

 

 

 

Cullen's letter of Resignation

 

Whatever you have heard of Kirkwall's rebellion, the truth is far worse; I would spare you that. What remains of Kirkwall's templars have been under my command for the past few years. We have done what we could to assist with the city's recovery—to restore some semblance of order—but my time here is done.

 

Seeker Pentaghast has approached me. She wishes to stop the war between mages and templars. She has been recruiting men and women to the cause and wishes me to oversee the group's military concerns. If the Conclave goes well, then we will not be needed. If not, we stand ready.

 

I have decided to take Seeker Pentaghast's offer. The Circles have fallen. I can give no more to the Templar Order, nor it to me. The Maker has shown me a new path; I must take it.

 

—Excerpt from a letter sent to South Reach by Commander Cullen

[Master Warder Z_]

If Divine writ says he can leave, he can leave. That's his superior, which he himself points out.

If he actually got discharged, then he didn't desert.

Totally different scenario.

But that's still leaving when your needed.

I'd still call him one for abandoning his duty to play storybook hero.

[Sah291]

Uh I'm assuming that in Thedas desertion on moral principle is still desertion.
Like in real-life.

Probably, but without moral principle it's just arbitrary authority. Given the Templars had rebelled from the Chantry by that point (I think?), they may have considered him one, while the Divine (and Cassandra) may not have.

[KaiserShep]

That's your point?

It really isn't much of one.

 

Point is, the Templars in their entirety are rebelling. The entire order deserted the Chantry, and indeed all of Thedas by holing up in some fortress while their rogue elements went tear-assing through the woods and killing everything in their path, so any concept of Cullen's own desertion from the order is totally meaningless.

 

I just think that the law involved with this is rather debatable, since it kinda begs the question as to how one would interpret their duties in the first place. Obviously, Templars who freely followed Demon Lucius out of Val Royeaux interpreted their duties to mean that they would follow potatoface to the ends of the earth, even if it meant abandoning the people they swore to protect.