357 réponses à ce sujet

[ModernAcademic]

It wasn't rhetoric.

Just ask south east asia, south america, and western europe.

 

20 years of neoliberalism and the recent left wing governments have been destroying South America one year at a time.

But the reason for this destruction was mainly due to the IMF's macroeconomic policy, started in the 80's.

 

With Russia willing to invest in Venezuela and China helping govts. pay their public debt, we're slowly coming out of this long nightmare called economic recession. 

 

And now, the BRICS and the AIIB (the Asian Investment Bank) might be our chance to implement a policy focused on development.

[BansheeOwnage]

Yes and he should get a medal.

 

You know what?

 

I'm the Inquisitor.

 

He's getting a medal.

Cullen gets a medal in DLC. Make it happen, Bioware!

[Lady Artifice]

Clearly, I've missed things.

Discussing real world politics always goes interesting places.

[Lumix19]

Because people were killed by communists in enmass for not wanting to be communists or communism.

Honestly.

How people defend the most blood soaked ideology in human history I'll never understand.

I'm not defending it (per say) but the world is not made of good and bad people (or good and bad ideologies), most ideologies are born out of good intentions, you see those good sides and explore them, and if necessary excise the bad parts. But the catastrophes of the world aren't due to ideologies (directly) it's people's abuse of them that's the issue.
What most people want is to live in safety and security with freedoms and prosperity. Ideologies are an attempt to capture that dream and make it happen. None are perfect but what is?

[Bugsie]

I want to say the situation in Kirkwall was always acknowledged as being crappy. How could it not be?

 

It appears to be one of the most magically-damaged places in Thedas, rendered that way on purpose by blood magic experiments conducted by Tevinters centuries ago. The Gallows facility itself used to be a hub for processing slaves, and breaking their spirits. All of the imagery constructed for this purpose still remain, and the architecture remains fashioned as a prison.

Well in broader terms yes and suggestion (mention) of the veil being thinner there, but 'always' or just now? I just don't recall any dialogue or wiki where it says that implicitely that the circle (under any enchanter or Knight-Commander) was always corrupt because of it. Actually if you look at the recent history of Kirkwall the unrest that preceded Meredith's was all of the Chantry and Templars doing and not the circles (the viscount attempting to oust the Templar order because the current divine was aligned with Orlais and was doing their bidding). So again opinion that it was always corrupt is just that, opinion not verifiable fact.

[BansheeOwnage]

Warder's world is very black and white.

 

"Follow every single order no matter what!"

 

"All communists ever are absolutely and purely evil, and the world would be better if they were all dead!"

 

Must be nice to live like that, but my world is a lot more complicated. But ignorance is bliss, right?

[Lumix19]

Warder's world is very black and white.

 

"Follow every single order no matter what!"

 

"All communists ever are absolutely and purely evil, and the world would be better if they were all dead!"

 

Must be nice to live like that, but my world is a lot more complicated. But ignorance is bliss, right?

That's been my impression too, kinda reminds of this:

 

 

Not that you serve Lucifer Warder but hopefully you get my point.

[LOLandStuff]

Pretty sure if Cullen didn't "desert", he would've been sitting on his ass in the Gallows doing absolutely nothing, or maybe dusting and scraping poop off of Meredith, while waiting for the clerics to choose a new Divine, but that after they cooled down from a panic attack.

There was no Templar Order anymore. Just groups of templars, some roaming the countryside, others being duped by those serving Corypheus.

 

All that's been left of the templars was their class, not the Order.

[Boost32]

Pretty sure if Cullen didn't "desert", he would've been sitting on his ass in the Gallows doing absolutely nothing, or maybe dusting and scraping poop off of Meredith, while waiting for the clerics to choose a new Divine, but that after they cooled down from a panic attack.
There was no Templar Order anymore. Just groups of templars, some roaming the countryside, others being duped by those serving Corypheus.

All that's been left of the templars was their class, not the Order.

If he had done his job there would be no red templar.
And there was a Templar Order with the chain of command intact. And the red templars were at Kirkwall at the time, they werent in othera regions.

[gottaloveme]

Seconded?

 

As in secondment from one arm of the chantry to another.

[LOLandStuff]

Unless you want Cullen to be an all-knowing-multitasker, then yes, he does indeed fail at his job.

Other than that, you're just being absurd.

[Boost32]

Unless you want Cullen to be an all-knowing-multitasker, then yes, he does indeed fail at his job.
Other than that, you're just being absurd.

If a Hawke who sided with the mage can know the templars started using red Lyrium, and he/she is exiled, I don't think its absurd for Cullen to know it, his negligence had a high cost.

[LOLandStuff]

You mean a viscount Hawke. Because a mage ally Hawke leaves the city to avoid an Exalted March.

So maybe the viscount should've done something about it instead of running away because they got spooked. They had the Kirkwall guards and whatever remaining sane templar there was around.

[Boost32]

You mean a viscount Hawke. Because a mage ally Hawke leaves the city to avoid an Exalted March.
So maybe the viscount should've done something about it instead of running away because they got spooked. They had the Kirkwall guards and whatever remaining sane templar there was around.

No, I mean a Hawke who sided with the mages, Hawke will always tell the Inquisitor the motive of him contacting the wardens is because the templars from Kirkwall started using red Lyrium, it doesn't matter the side he/she had choosen.

[LOLandStuff]

No, I mean a Hawke who sided with the mages, Hawke will always tell the Inquisitor the motive of him contacting the wardens is because the templars from Kirkwall started using red Lyrium, it doesn't matter the side he/she had choosen.

 

I checked on that. Forgot about it.

However, you can't compare Hawke's connections with Cullen's. And it's not like red lyrium was just sitting there right in the open for everyone to snort it at their leasure. He had other priorities and got negligent with the whole red lyrium thing. But the way some make him out to be, is like he's at fault for the entire mess the templars got into.

[TheRaccoon]

I think the whole red templar thing in kirkwall is a huge plot hole. If the red templars were that aggressive to drive viscount Hawke away, why didn't anyone in power do anything? Not only Cullen, but aveline, varric, the nobles, the city guards, remaining templars, and also Cassandra and Leli when they came here. For the mage ally Hawke scenario, Hawke didn't really explain when they discovered the templars been taking red lyrium, which could be after Cullen left.

 

That being said, I don't think Cullen is a deserter legal and military wise. While if he left some of the remaining templars (as some of the templars joined along side with him, e.g. that captain stationing at the Griffin post) to whatever they might face is debatable. 

[Ashaantha]

From what I've read from bioware's blog and short tales the red lyrium being given to templars started after Cullen left Kirkwall, they posted this samson story thing there. So in-game we assume it happens while he's there thanks to viscount Hawke's little story but according to short story done by a bioware writer it happens after Cullen leaves, and remaining Templars flounder from having no actual orders. We may never be told the truth of the red lyrium timeline sadly so it can't be used in any canon fact debate, seeing as Bioware's contradicting itself haha.

 

http://blog.bioware....ry-paper-steel/

[Boost32]

From what I've read from bioware's blog and short tales the red lyrium being given to templars started after Cullen left Kirkwall, they posted this samson story thing there. So in-game we assume it happens while he's there thanks to viscount Hawke's little story but according to short story done by a bioware writer it happens after Cullen leaves, and remaining Templars flounder from having no actual orders. We may never be told the truth of the red lyrium timeline sadly so it can't be used in any canon fact debate, seeing as Bioware's contradicting itself haha.
 
http://blog.bioware....ry-paper-steel/

There nothing stating he was the first to drink red Lyrium

I checked on that. Forgot about it.
However, you can't compare Hawke's connections with Cullen's. And it's not like red lyrium was just sitting there right in the open for everyone to snort it at their leasure. He had other priorities and got negligent with the whole red lyrium thing. But the way some make him out to be, is like he's at fault for the entire mess the templars got into.

No he isn't at fault for the entire thing, doesn't mean he has no guilt.
After such display of incompetence he should have not become the Inquisition general.
And I can compare because Hawke wasnt at Kirkwall and know about it, Cullen was at the Gallows and didn't know.

I think the whole red templar thing in kirkwall is a huge plot hole. If the red templars were that aggressive to drive viscount Hawke away, why didn't anyone in power do anything? Not only Cullen, but aveline, varric, the nobles, the city guards, remaining templars, and also Cassandra and Leli when they came here. For the mage ally Hawke scenario, Hawke didn't really explain when they discovered the templars been taking red lyrium, which could be after Cullen left.
 
That being said, I don't think Cullen is a deserter legal and military wise. While if he left some of the remaining templars (as some of the templars joined along side with him, e.g. that captain stationing at the Griffin post) to whatever they might face is debatable.

Yes its a huge plot hole and bad writing.
If the red templars had small numbers, Hawke could have handled it with the City Guard and the uncorrupted templars.
If they were a large force, it would be impossible to Cullen to not know.

It doesn't matter when Hawke who allied with the mages discovered it, the corruption started before he left, Cullen left them to be corrupted because of his negligence.

[Panda]

I think Cullen's case can be approached in different viewpoints. In chantry's and his own view he got promotion and transfer for better job that he accepted. In rebel templars viewpoint (that deserted chantry) he deserted templar order.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Yes its a huge plot hole and bad writing.
If the red templars had small numbers, Hawke could have handled it with the City Guard and the uncorrupted templars.
If they were a large force, it would be impossible to Cullen to not know.

It doesn't matter when Hawke who allied with the mages discovered it, the corruption started before he left, Cullen left them to be corrupted because of his negligence.

Cullen wasn't even in Kirkwall any longer when the Red Templars started to appear, so what the **** are you on about? 

[Br3admax]

Supposedly, the Red Templar business started before Cassandra even went to Kirkwall, and that's why Hawke left, so technically, yeah he was. He did't resign until Cassandra approached him in 9:40 

[Boost32]

Cullen wasn't even in Kirkwall any longer when the Red Templars started to appear, so what the **** are you on about? 

Why people who don't know what they are talking about feel so entlited?

Have you seen the video that I posted about Hawke? Go back a few pages. Viscount Hawke was attacked by red templars, Cullen only left after Cassandra interrogated Hawke, by the time the attack had already happened and Hawke was gone, do you understand now?

[Mykel54]

snip

 

OP here. Thank you for your post, very concise and you addressed most of my concerns.

 

I was aware of Cullen´s letter of resignation, but figured that even if it was accepted, he sort of abandoned Kirkwall templars to be corrupted by Samson with red lyrium. However i also understand that had he remained, he would likely have been corrupted by red lyrium himself.

 

I respect how after the mess in kinloch hold Cullen still wanted to serve, and it is only after the templar break away from the chantry to hunt mages, that he feels that the order is no longer doing the right thing. We can extrapolate from this that it is not Cullen´s "bad experiences" that push him to quit, but it is when the order leaves the chantry and appears to be betraying it´s purpose, what he joined for.

 

I also respect how he doesn´t quit his job on a whim, but it is because Cassandra offers him a better alternative to what he is currently doing - so if Cassandra had not recruited him, he would have likely stayed - like the leader of Hasmal´s templars remains in the city. As far as i know, there are no rules prohibiting a templar from quitting his job, unlike the wardens who are for life, it´s just that with the lyrium addiction i figure that very few people can quit the templars and survive to do something else.

[Sifr]

@Sifr Sorry, but I need to ask: Why do you end all of your sentences in question marks? Is your period button broken?

 

Do I? Huh, never noticed? I guess I'm either being rhetorical or just confused?

 

(I have tried to end sentences in full stops before, but I don't think I can? It might actually be a serious problem?)

 

[Ashaantha]

Technically we don't know whether Cullen was there or not when templars started taking red lyrium. Why? because Bioware's writers are contradictory with the timeline.

• A writer of Samson/calpernia in her Samson short story, which is endorsed by Bioware or else it wouldn't be on their blog and website (I linked it earlier in this thread), says Cullen was not present and that the templars taking red lyrium stuff happened after he left .
• And then there's viscount Hawke's in-game dialogue timeline version of events which allows us to assume he was present in Kirkwall. Note however Hawke does not specifically say Cullen was there, we assume he is because of the DA2 dialogue in the cutscene at the end of the game.
• Then of course you have Cassandra and Leliana arriving in Kirkwall after it exploded. Here it's said Hawke (even as Viscount) had already left the city and disappeared. However Bioware has messed up timelines between Chantry explosion in DA2 and Inquisition starting for many other things, so I wouldn't be surprised if they swept this bit of dialogue under the carpet in between games (they've already done this between DAO and DA2). This dialogue never directly mentions Cullen but DAI timelines let us know that if they kept this scene's info correct it's realistic to assume he was in the city.
• When talking to Cullen in DAI he is ignorant or unaware of Red Templars until they show up in game according to dialogue, but he is sort of oblivious to stuff as it is.

Exactly when templars of Kirkwall started taking red lyrium is all assumptions and even Bioware couldn't get their facts about it straight enough to allow a definite answer. My point I was trying to make in my earlier post and linking the short story was that the info about when templars in Kirkwall started taking red lyrium is contradictory from Bioware so neither version can be used yet as official Bioware canon facts and the only time Cullen is directly mentioned in the same dialogue as templars taking red lyrium in Kirkwall is in the short story's version. But as I said, Bioware sometimes does sweep bits of dialogue under the carpet and try to forget they put it there. An annoying habit

_________________

 

But to be back on topic, it makes more sense in my opinion for the templars to start on red lyrium after Cullen leaves Kirkwall as the templars who stayed in Kirkwall are left leaderless, possibly frightened, and definitely feeling a little paranoid and abandoned.

That so called "letter of resignation" was sent to South Reach, a Ferelden town. His family (sisters and brother) lives in South Reach so I'm not sure it was an actual resignation letter, rather just a letter informing his sister that he had resigned from the Order.

 

Was he a deserter? Not precisely, he did resign but that's assuming resignations were fine for the Thedas Templar Order which is likely nothing like any real life military. Was it a good idea for him to leave Kirkwall? I would say a big resounding no, based on the contradictory information we're given.