357 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Cassandra herself said they are outside of the Templar chain of command and only took power over the templars after the accord was dissolved.

 

Then that would make the ones who followed the Seekers deserters themselves.

 

 

He voted yes to leave the Chantry, if he was going to leave after a few months of war, he shouldnt have voted.

 

He didn't vote. According to WoT2, he remained in the Gallows for over two years trying to repair the damage in Kirkwall, and defending the loyalist mages that remained in the Circle. He never attended the gathering at Lambert's behest.

[Master Warder Z_]

Source that the Templates work remotely like the modern military?

Weren't you citing divine decree that said he could leave?

If that's not discharge then what is?

[Master Warder Z_]

Then that would make the ones who followed the Seekers deserters themselves.

In what fashion?

They had legal right to secede.

Lambert literally used a ability granted to him.

[Boost32]

The Seekers job was the police the Templars.   It said so in DA2 and is confirmed in DAI.   Cassandra admits they should have done more to stop the war by cracking down on Templar abuse, etc.   So when Cassandra turns up, says that the Divine is trying to stop the chaos and offers Cullen a job, he is really sticking to what he vowed to serve, the Chantry and the Divine.   Plus he's been recruited by a Templar overseer.   Lambert, the guy who dissolved the Accord, was in fact a Seeker, not a Templar.   If Cassandra had no authority over Templars, than neither did he. 

 

Essentially the Templar Order split, same as the mages, between those who remained loyal to the Divine (smaller group in both instances) and those who rebelled and did their own thing.   It was hinted in Asunder that whilst Lambert got a unanimous verdict, he likely had not stood for any objection and bullied everyone into taking his line.   There were other Templars in the Inquisition who joined like Cullen did.   As for the others, I was always appalled that Ser Barris and co just stood by and did nothing while one of their number punched an unarmed civilian from an organisation that they originally swore to serve.

 

If you disband the Order, then the remaining Templars who you assimilate into the Inquisition elect to follow Cullen's example and get off the lyrium.   So it would seem that it is possible to conquer the addiction but it is said to be a long and painful process.     I should imagine that poor guy in Denerim suffered so badly because he was locked in a dungeon with nothing to do except think about what he was missing.

Lambert had a vote where all Knight-Commander participated, and all of them  voted yes, Cullen was the Knight-Commander of Kirkwall so he had to be one of those who voted yes. So yes, Lambert had the authority because every Knight-Commander followed him, even Cullen.

 

Lucklly it didn't happned in my game, both Cullen and the Inquisition's templars still using Lyrium, just because they handwaved the Lyrium withdrawl doesnt mean I forgot how dangerous it can really be: 

[Br3admax]

Weren't you citing divine decree that said he could leave?

If that's not discharge then what is?

I meant for your definition of desertion. If he's not required to be there, it's not desertion.

[Master Warder Z_]

I meant for your definition of desertion. If he's not required to be there, it's not desertion.

Would you prefer abandonment or some other term?

Also your prior post indicated no such thing.

[The Baconer]

In what fashion?

They had legal right to secede.

Lambert literally used a ability granted to him.

 

Then Cullen had the legal right to follow Cassandra.

[Boost32]

Then Cullen had the legal right to follow Cassandra.

So why he followed Lambert first?

[Master Warder Z_]

Then Cullen had the legal right to follow Cassandra.

That doesn't follow.

[Br3admax]

Would you prefer abandonment or some other term?

Also your prior post indicated no such thing.

He abandoned nothing. His duty wasn't to follow Lambert to be made into a Behemoth. 

 

It's the topic of this thread. Whatelse could I possibly be talking about?

[The Baconer]

So why he followed Lambert first?

 

Check my post on the last page. WoT2 confirms that remained in Kirkwall for years; he never attended Lambert's vote.

[raging_monkey]

seems solid

[The Baconer]

That doesn't follow.

 

You're trying to maintain the simultaneous opinions that:

 

- Since the Seekers are outside the Templars' chain of command, Cassandra had no real authority to claim Cullen's service, and him choosing to follow her is thus desertion.

 

- Since Lambert dissolved the Nevarran Accords, the Templars had the legal right to leave their posts and follow the Seekers into war, thus, they are not deserters.

 

These two statements are in direct conflict with each other. By the criteria you yourself have outlined, all the Templars who followed Lambert are either deserters alongside Cullen, or Cullen had the right to leave via the nullification of the Accords, and thus is not a deserter. You can't have both.

[KaiserShep]

Legal shmegal I say. The Seekers, Templars and Chantry were full of crap and their leadership was either dead or compromised, demons were pouring out of the sky and there was precisely dick that either was doing about it.

[Boost32]

Check my post on the last page. WoT2 confirms that remained in Kirkwall for years; he never attended Lambert's vote.

There is nothing indicating he didnt leave Kirkwall, the only thing written is that he was the commander for over two years (page 227).

The book Asunder tell us that every Knight-Commander went to the vote and all voted yes, there is nothing in Wot2 that go against its information even the time frame of the vote match with the time as Knight-Commander of Kirkwall.

[The Baconer]

There is nothing indicating he didnt leave Kirkwall, the only thing written is that he was the commander for over two years (page 227).

The book Asunder tell us that every Knight-Commander went to the vote and all voted yes, there is nothing in Wot2 that go against its information even the time frame of the vote match with the time as Knight-Commander of Kirkwall.

 

Voting yes would mean being ceding command to the Lord Seeker, and actually participating in the war (joining the host that would march on Andoral's Reach). Remaining stationed at the Gallows and having the Templars continue their regular duties is the opposite of what Lambert demanded.

[The Baconer]

Another factoid from Asunder: Lambert states "I come from the Tevinter Imperium."

 

WoT 2 is released and corrects that as Lambert being born in Orlais and acting as a "Seeker liaison" to Tevinter.

[Br3admax]

You're trying to maintain the simultaneous opinions that:

 

- Since the Seekers are outside the Templars' chain of command, Cassandra had no real authority to claim Cullen's service, and him choosing to follow her is thus desertion.

 

- Since Lambert dissolved the Nevarran Accords, the Templars had the legal right to leave their posts and follow the Seekers into war, thus, they are not deserters.

 

These two statements are in direct conflict with each other. By the criteria you yourself have outlined, all the Templars who followed Lambert are either deserters alongside Cullen, or Cullen had the right to leave via the nullification of the Accords, and thus is not a deserter. You can't have both.

Yes. Seekers outrank Templars. 

Yes. The Accord now means Seekers are in charge of Templars. 

Cassandra, however, is not a Seeker, during Inquisition. She already left the Order. 

That being said, Divine mandate let's her do whatever she wants, given the Divine's approval, so why is this even up for discussion?

 

Another factoid from Asunder: Lambert states "I come from the Tevinter Imperium."

 

WoT 2 is released and corrects that as Lambert being born in Orlais and acting as a "Seeker liaison" to Tevinter.

 

Honestly, we should have assumed. He wouldn't have the powers, otherwise. I also doubt they would have let him be Lord Seeker. 

[Master Warder Z_]

He abandoned nothing.

His brothers, his command and kirkwall and it's citizens.

[Master Warder Z_]

Another factoid from Asunder: Lambert states "I come from the Tevinter Imperium."

WoT 2 is released and corrects that as Lambert being born in Orlais and acting as a "Seeker liaison" to Tevinter.

That's disappointing.

[KaiserShep]

His brothers, his command and kirkwall and it's citizens.

In serving the Inquisition, Cullen is attempting to help more than just one mere city.

[Master Warder Z_]

You're trying to maintain the simultaneous opinions that:

- Since the Seekers are outside the Templars' chain of command, Cassandra had no real authority to claim Cullen's service, and him choosing to follow her is thus desertion.

She didn't.

The Divine did.

[Boost32]

Voting yes would mean being ceding command to the Lord Seeker, and actually participating in the war (joining the host that would march on Andoral's Reach). Remaining stationed at the Gallows and having the Templars continue their regular duties is the opposite of what Lambert demanded.

What Lambert demanded meant nothing, because he died the same day the vote was hold and the march to Andoral's Reach never happened anyway.

There are templars who voted to leave the Chantry and stayed in their city: http://dragonage.wik...smal's_Templars

[Master Warder Z_]

In serving the Inquisition, Cullen is attempting to help more than just one mere city.

*shrugs*

The man use whatever justification he wants.

[Boost32]

In serving the Inquisition, Cullen is attempting to help more than just one mere city.

And he left his subordinate to fight a war he helped to start and to be corrupted by the Red Templars, he betrayed them.