357 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

Sorry I just guessed. I thought you might have enlisted soon after you reached the right age.

Eh two years give or take.

[The Baconer]

Those statutes weren't written with Kirkwall in mind obviously.

 

"Orders go beyond personal belief or expectation."

[Lumix19]

Eh two years give or take.

I thought you were born in the 70s?

[Master Warder Z_]

"Orders go beyond personal belief or expectation."

Eh do we really need to argue the semantics differences of law and orders?

Because obviously that is what you're trying to do.

Law is a civil legislation that may or may not be applicable on a battlefield, orders are military command given on a battlefield to achieve a objective.

[Master Warder Z_]

I thought you were born in the 70s?

78 *nods*

[Master Warder Z_]

Good year.

[BansheeOwnage]

Eh do we really need to argue the semantics differences of law and orders?

Because obviously that is what you're trying to do.

Law is a civil legislation that may or may not be applicable on a battlefield, orders are military command given on a battlefield to achieve a objective.

According to what I read, if an carrying out an order would break the law, it's classified as illegal.

[The Baconer]

Eh do we really need to argue the semantics differences of law and orders?

Because obviously that is what you're trying to do.

Law is a civil legislation that may or may not be applicable on a battlefield, orders are military command given on a battlefield to achieve a objective.

 

No, compare it to RoE.

[Master Warder Z_]

According to what I read, if an carrying out an order would break the law, it's classified as illegal.

Well as someone pointed out a few pages back we don't know military statutes in Thedas.

Plus it's a feudalistic era so...not a big deal either way.

[BansheeOwnage]

Well as someone pointed out a few pages back we don't know military statutes in Thedas.

Plus it's a feudalistic era so...not a big deal either way.

Yeah, we don't. Honestly, we don't know a lot about this debate.

[Master Warder Z_]

No, compare it to RoE.

The purging of a containmented circle filled with enemy combatants?

Alright.

Meredith as confirmed years ago had the civil AND military authority to order it.

The end.

[The Baconer]

The purging of a containmented circle filled with enemy combatants?

Alright.

Meredith as confirmed years ago had the civil AND military authority to order it.

The end.

 

Oh, you thought I was talking about that.

[Master Warder Z_]

Oh, you thought I was talking about that.

Eh?

[duckley]

Really?????????

[Sifr]

Those statutes weren't written with Kirkwall in mind obviously.

 

Even so, she broke the law frequently, often punishing the very mages she was meant to protect for the smallest "crimes" such as writing love letters? Regardless of whether or not Kirkwall needed the law to be enforced, that doesn't mean she should have been permitted to blatantly ignore it altogether as she often did?

 

The purging of a containmented circle filled with enemy combatants?

Alright.

Meredith as confirmed years ago had the civil AND military authority to order it.

The end.

 

The Circle only became enemy combatants after she ordered it Annulled with no pretext for it, since the Mage responsible for the Chantry bombing was an Apostate. If that's not a case for those mages in the Gallows acting in self-defence, I don't know what is?

 

(Yes, we later learned there were blood mages in the Circle that might have justified it, but regardless, Meredith struck first with no real reason aside from her paranoia)

[The Baconer]

Eh?

 

It's a big list.

 

Meredith was... not the most competent leader.

[AtreiyaN7]

It isn't wrong by any legal standpoint if you aren't a signer of any agreement not to employ questionable weaponry.

I'd point that out first and foremost.

The Swiss themselves know all about loopholes.

 

LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell me, did NOT signing on with the Geneva Conventions get Chemical Ali off the hook for the 1988 chemical attack on Halabja once he got dragged into court after Saddam Hussein's regime fell? It sure didn't seem to get him off the hook as I recall.

 

http://en.wikipedia....chemical_attack

 

Saddam's cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid (who commanded Iraqi forces in northern Iraq during that period, which earned him a nickname of 'Chemical Ali') was condemned to death by hanging by an Iraqi court in January 2010, after being found guilty of orchestrating the Halabja massacre. Al-Majid was first sentenced to hang in 2007 for his role in a 1988 military campaign against ethnic Kurds, codenamed Anfal, and in 2008 he also twice received a death sentence for his crimes against the Iraqi Shia Muslims, in particular for his role in crushing the 1991 uprisings in southern Iraq and his involvement in the 1999 killings in the Sadr City district of Baghdad (then called Saddam City). Al-Majid did not express remorse at his trials, stating his actions were in the interests of Iraqi security. He was executed by hanging on January 25, 2010.^[23]

 

The Iraqi court clearly didn't buy into the whole "in the interests of Iraqi security" thing, which essentially seems to be another way of saying "I was ordered to do it (in the interests of Iraqi security)" as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, I think we're done! You believe independent, critical thinking ends as soon as you enlist, and I just don't.

 

I maintain that Cullen made the smart choice by leaving when he did and for lending his services to the Inquisition where he was of far greater use and that he was not a deserter.

[Master Warder Z_]

It's a big list.

Meredith was... not the most competent leader.

I'd agree.

[Master Warder Z_]

Tell me, did NOT signing on with the Geneva Conventions get Chemical Ali off the hook for the 1988 chemical attack on Halabja

No because the statutes were adopted by the UN which Iraq was a member state of.

So they were beholden to them.

So...you're cited case isn't exactly applicable.

[KaiserShep]

The purging of a containmented circle filled with enemy combatants?

Alright.

Meredith as confirmed years ago had the civil AND military authority to order it.

The end.

 

I guess that's really the underlying problem with Meredith. Everyone is an enemy combatant before they actually become one. Not exactly a leader with the soundest of minds.

 

I'm not really compelled by Meredith's civil and military authority, hence my total lack of hesitation when I chose to help the mages and spit at Kirkwall's illustration of law and order. But, I guess it's always a good thing to occasionally butt against legal authority and challenge its validity.

[Sifr]

I guess that's really the underlying problem with Meredith. Everyone is an enemy combatant before they actually become one. Not exactly a leader with the soundest of minds.

 

I'm not really compelled by Meredith's civil and military authority, hence my total lack of hesitation when I chose to help the mages and spit at Kirkwall's illustration of law and order. But, I guess it's always a good thing to occasionally butt against legal authority and challenge its validity.

 

Especially when her civil and military authority consisted of refusing to allow free civil elections for a new Viscount and attempting to undermine the city guard so she can gain a total monopoly on all armed forces within Kirkwall? Hence her coming across less as the sole bastion for order within Kirkwall and more a tin-pot dictator, especially since the Red Lyrium caused her to show clear signs of suffering from delusions of grandeur?

[Master Warder Z_]

I guess that's really the underlying problem with Meredith. Everyone is an enemy combatant before they actually become one

Well to be fair she was handed the most corrupt circle in Thedas.

[Sifr]

Well to be fair she was handed the most corrupt circle in Thedas.

 

Not exactly helped by the Templars under her command though, given the amount of abuse and evidence of rape going on?

 

When you have people like that "guarding" you and a Knight-Commander accusing the mages every other second of being blood mages, why shouldn't you learn blood magic if it might be the only defence you have against them? Like Lambert's attempts to quell any rebellion causing the mages to rebel, Meredith's crackdowns probably caused half the problems and blood mages she was trying to avoid?

 

Cullen was probably one of the more moderate Templars there and WOT2 reveals that the mages deemed him not dangerous, but not trustworthy either? Their relationship with the Templars was so fraught, they barely trusted any of them anymore, even the ones who did believe that the job meant protecting them?

[AtreiyaN7]

No because the statutes were adopted by the UN which Iraq was a member state of.

So they were beholden to them.

So...you're cited case isn't exactly applicable.

 

Then a total mea culpa on that point. However, it doesn't change the fact that it was still a criminal act and that you don't really get a free pass by saying you were ordered to do it, does it?

[KaiserShep]

Well to be fair she was handed the most corrupt circle in Thedas.

 

Also run by one of the most corrupt orders we've seen in the series so far, given their inclination to set rather arbitrary standards for what they could define as a punishable offense, so I guess it was kismet.

 

But as for being handed the most corrupt circle in Thedas, that assumes that the Circle in Kirkwall was like that before she came to run it. The problem with following rules is that if in doing so, you're still being treated like crap, there's less and less incentive to do so.