159 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Why doesn't BioWare make Dragon Age: Inquisition 2?

I mean it was well received and many liked it, why not actually make sequels to it instead some lame spin offs?

[In Exile]

To personally spite you, OP. Bioware is doing it all just to punish you. It's a plan a decade in the making, all to build up to this one thread. 

[Eelectrica]

The reason they don't is because they don't believe they'll get the sales they want. If someone could convince them an Origins style game would sell 20 million or more copies, they'd start development on it tomorrow. I'd buy such a game, so that's one down, just another 19 999 999 to go...

 

The budgets of games these days, they need probably 5 million+ sales to break even.

[Saphiron123]

Hi
 
Because it wouldn't be a financial success.
 
DA:O although praised, was played only by a "small" group of people.
 
If you compare the sales of DA:O with, lets say, Call of Duty, you'll see that the former isn't the "gold mine" a company like EA would like
 
to have.
 
Therefore i doubt there will be a DA:O 2 ever.
 
I really wish someone proved me wrong:(

That makes no sense though, DAO reached a smaller audience at first because it was the first game. The people who bought DAI, the hype around it, was because of the dragon age name (and partially due to the success of other bioware IPs).

DA:O would sell just as well, and it they didn't dumb it down and make it so damned empty, I bet it'd have a better legacy.

Origins, the inclusion of tactics and other cut content, and a tactical mode that actually works plus great writing would be all it would take... Bioware can do better then they did here.

[Saphiron123]

The reason they don't is because they don't believe they'll get the sales they want. If someone could convince them an Origins style game would sell 20 million or more copies, they'd start development on it tomorrow. I'd buy such a game, so that's one down, just another 19 999 999 to go...
 
The budgets of games these days, they need probably 5 million+ sales to break even.

An origins style game just includes racial origins and a tactical mode that works... They planned to do that with DAI but they screwed up tactical cam and made it so you couldn't play from that perspective, and they cut stuff like tactics and attribute points, gave everyone the same starting story, etc.

Dragon age should be able to zoom out and cater to both types of players.

Plus, it should include finishing moves like origins too, I feel like I'm fighting with nerf swords at this point... At least once in a while I'd chop off someone's head in origins and the blood went beyond flecks on my armor ( seriously, why does my character have a magic power that keeps blood off his face???)

[Eelectrica]

An origins style game just includes racial origins and a tactical mode that works... They planned to do that with DAI but they screwed up tactical cam and made it so you couldn't play from that perspective, and they cut stuff like tactics and attribute points, gave everyone the same starting story, etc.

Dragon age should be able to zoom out and cater to both types of players.

Plus, it should include finishing moves like origins too, I feel like I'm fighting with nerf swords at this point... At least once in a while I'd chop off someone's head in origins and the blood went beyond flecks on my armor ( seriously, why does my character have a magic power that keeps blood off his face???)

With patches though, they have made it so as the camera can be zoomed out further  in outdoor areas at least, which is most of the game so that's an improvement.

Whilst I agree the tactical camera could be better, it is still usable. I've decided to finish off my night JOH playthrough and was using tac cam a little earlier. I'd like to give my companions instructions in tac cam and have them remember them if I've switched to action cam.

 

Wouldn't mind if scripting could be added to the engine as well. There was something cool about getting the scripts right in Origins and DA2 and watching your companions get it mostly right like a fairly well oiled machine.

 

Finishing moves in Origins were nice, personally I can live without them, but wouldn't complain if they were there either. Prefer them over the stupid time wasting gathering animation every damn time we pick something up. That animation needs to die in fire.

 

I'd like more dialogue options for sure and be allowed to roleplay my character more. And yeah won't say no to better Origin stories, hopefully next time around multiple character choices will be in the design document day one of production for DA4.

[Rawgrim]

Because EA feels games like DA:O are too complex for their customers to understand. Their words, not mine.

[suirazul]

This is nuts, this is the exact reason why I came to post on the forum. Dragon Age Origins II would be simply amazing, but they would have to get new writers. Please don't be upset, but I dont' like the writing in da2 and this 3rd one.

[Ujop]

That makes no sense though, DAO reached a smaller audience at first because it was the first game. The people who bought DAI, the hype around it, was because of the dragon age name (and partially due to the success of other bioware IPs).

DA:O would sell just as well, and it they didn't dumb it down and make it so damned empty, I bet it'd have a better legacy.

Origins, the inclusion of tactics and other cut content, and a tactical mode that actually works plus great writing would be all it would take... Bioware can do better then they did here.

Ok than lets get some numbers here shall we.

 

DAO sold aprox. 3.2 M copies until august 2010. (10 months after release )

 

source: http://www.destructo...ll-162984.phtml

 

Don't get me wrong, that's a great number for a story-driven tactical party based RPG.

 

But it pales in comparison to the best selling games in 2009

 

http://www.tomsguide...,news-5729.html

 

And this was 6 years ago. I think nowadays it would be even worse. Tell me, how many DAO style RPGs does the game industry produce these days?

 

And more important how do they sell?

 

I can think of 2: Divinity OS, and Pillars of Eternity. ( and both were made possible only thanks to kickstarter )

 

Divinity OS, which was highly praised, reached 0,5M 2 months after release.

 

source: http://en.wikipedia....y:_Original_Sin

 

In comparison the FPS Destiny ( which was rated more or less as a mediocre game 7,7 in average i think) sold over 7 M copies during a similar period, an in

 

hindsight tops even DAO in a smaller time frame

 

http://n4g.com/news/...units-worldwide

 

So even a mediocre FPS tops a tactical party based RPG these days in terms of sales.

 

And before someone writes that i shouldn't compare 2 different genres, well that's the point of my post. Some genres are simply better suited for a broader audience.

 

Thus they sell better. From a financial PoV abandoning the whole RPG genre and focus on FPS is the way to go. they sell better = more revenue

 

Therefore DA:O2 is never likely to happen. This genre is just not suited for chart-breaking sales ( at least not for numbers that would satisfy EA and other large companies )

 

If you think otherwise than please, show me some numbers where a tactical, party based RPG was a best selling game.

 

P.S. Skyrim is not a party based, tactical RPG

 

P.S.S the kickstarter project is the best (and probably the only ) way the get a classic party based tactical RPG,

 

Feargus Urquhart, Obsidian's CEO, explained why they chose to use a crowd funding model for Pillars of Eternity instead of the traditional developer/publisher arrangement: "What Kickstarter does is let us make a game that is absolutely reminiscent of those great [Infinity Engine] games, since trying to get that funded through a traditional publisher would be next to impossible."

 

Source:http://en.wikipedia....ars_of_Eternity

[Teddie Sage]

lol did you even read my post?

Nope.

[Dieb]

Because EA feels games like DA:O are too complex for their customers to understand. Their words, not mine.

 

Hell, I understood DAO (except that damn Zathrian fight on Nightmare I still don't understand why it gave me such a hard time), and on Normal or Easy you can ARPG through it without even issueing orders.

 

Somewhere on Trinidad, a limbo dance party committee must have been falsely delivered a pullups bar.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Because the old Bioware, the Bioware that was responsible for DAO is effectively dead and dusted.

 

Most if not all the developers from Bioware of old has moved on to another project or to another company or retired. 

 

The new Bioware is, in my opinion, incapable of making DAO again even if they tried. The new Bioware is all about mainstreaming, romances, over-the-top-but-actually-shallow MMO-esque combat and being politically correct and/or sanitized to avoid offending people. 

[vertigomez]

To personally spite you, OP. Bioware is doing it all just to punish you. It's a plan a decade in the making, all to build up to this one thread.

This. I know because reasons.

[X Equestris]

Ok than lets get some numbers here shall we.
 
DAO sold aprox. 3.2 M copies until august 2010. (10 months after release )
 
source: http://www.destructo...ll-162984.phtml
 
Don't get me wrong, that's a great number for a story-driven tactical party based RPG.
 
But it pales in comparison to the best selling games in 2009
 
http://www.tomsguide...,news-5729.html
 
And this was 6 years ago. I think nowadays it would be even worse. Tell me, how many DAO style RPGs does the game industry produce these days?
 
And more important how do they sell?
 
I can think of 2: Divinity OS, and Pillars of Eternity. ( and both were made possible only thanks to kickstarter )
 
Divinity OS, which was highly praised, reached 0,5M 2 months after release.
 
source: http://en.wikipedia....y:_Original_Sin
 
In comparison the FPS Destiny ( which was rated more or less as a mediocre game 7,7 in average i think) sold over 7 M copies during a similar period, an in
 
hindsight tops even DAO in a smaller time frame
 
http://n4g.com/news/...units-worldwide
 
So even a mediocre FPS tops a tactical party based RPG these days in terms of sales.
 
And before someone writes that i shouldn't compare 2 different genres, well that's the point of my post. Some genres are simply better suited for a broader audience.
 
Thus they sell better. From a financial PoV abandoning the whole RPG genre and focus on FPS is the way to go. they sell better = more revenue
 
Therefore DA:O2 is never likely to happen. This genre is just not suited for chart-breaking sales ( at least not for numbers that would satisfy EA and other large companies )
 
If you think otherwise than please, show me some numbers where a tactical, party based RPG was a best selling game.
 
P.S. Skyrim is not a party based, tactical RPG
 
P.S.S the kickstarter project is the best (and probably the only ) way the get a classic party based tactical RPG,
 
Feargus Urquhart, Obsidian's CEO, explained why they chose to use a crowd funding model for Pillars of Eternity instead of the traditional developer/publisher arrangement: "What Kickstarter does is let us make a game that is absolutely reminiscent of those great [Infinity Engine] games, since trying to get that funded through a traditional publisher would be next to impossible."
 
Source:http://en.wikipedia....ars_of_Eternity

And then there's the fact that the cost of making games has gone up since DAO came out.

[Rawgrim]

Hell, I understood DAO (except that damn Zathrian fight on Nightmare I still don't understand why it gave me such a hard time), and on Normal or Easy you can ARPG through it without even issueing orders.

 

Somewhere on Trinidad, a limbo dance party committee must have been falsely delivered a pullups bar.

 

Yes it can. If you have the right equipment, set up the tactics for each character, and make smart builds. In DA:I you need the barrier spell and button mashing. Nothing else.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Because most of the people that worked on it left and because Bioware doesn't want to make it. Bioware like the direction the series is going and some of the fans do too. I ain't one of them, I think DAO is the best game the series will ever have but Bioware don't feel like making it.

 

Basically this. If you want to play a proper sequel to DA:O you should wait for Sword Coast Legend, which is made by the same people who released DA:O.

 

But if you refuse to see that nowadays Bioware is a different company, with different people and different goals you are going to be disappointed every single time. Times change, sadly, as well as people and companies. If you feel that a company is going down a road which is far from your needs/tastes you can either accept the changes or try to find a new one whose products suits you better. Stamping your feet and asking that they do again what they cannot/don't want do again is just a waste of time.

[Erstus]

A lot of people agree to this, even some professionals in the industry.  However, to be honest, with the exception of Divinity: Original SIn, (which should have won), there was very little competition in 2014.  So it basically won by default.

This

[Panda]

Personally I wonder why Bioware has to change so much between games. It would make sense to make improvements to previous style and keep improving and improving their game until it's best possible. But instead of that it feels like they are just starting all over with every game in the series, the changes are so big and not always improvements.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I think of a "DAO 2" (which I would love above just anything else) I mean a new game, with a new story and characters set in the DA world that plays using the same kind of pseudo isometric tactical gameplay, party structure, and systems (tac cam, tactics system, etc.) from Origins. I just want a game that plays just like Origins with another great story behind it. It doesn't have to have anything directly to do with DAO (although I wouldn't object if it did).

 

That said, its never going to happen. The people who made DAO have long since left Bioware, and that kind of game doesn't fit with the EA vision or business model. DAI was probably my last Bioware game (unless they do a massive about-face on some core game design elements), which is shame, because DA is my favourite game setting. Luckily, there are lots of great CRPGs coming out through via Kickstarter and indie devs to fill the niche that Bioware no longer does.

[Erstus]

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I think of a "DAO 2" (which I would love above just anything else) I mean a new game, with a new story and characters set in the DA world that plays using the same kind of pseudo isometric tactical gameplay, party structure, and systems (tac cam, tactics system, etc.) from Origins. I just want a game that plays just like Origins with another great story behind it. It doesn't have to have anything directly to do with DAO (although I wouldn't object if it did).
 
That said, its never going to happen. The people who made DAO have long since left Bioware, and that kind of game doesn't fit with the EA vision or business model. DAI was probably my last Bioware game (unless they do a massive about-face on some core game design elements), which is shame, because DA is my favourite game setting. Luckily, there are lots of great CRPGs coming out through via Kickstarter and indie devs to fill the niche that Bioware no longer does.

When one falls another will always be there to take his/her place.

[Auztin]

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I think of a "DAO 2" (which I would love above just anything else) I mean a new game, with a new story and characters set in the DA world that plays using the same kind of pseudo isometric tactical gameplay, party structure, and systems (tac cam, tactics system, etc.) from Origins. I just want a game that plays just like Origins with another great story behind it. It doesn't have to have anything directly to do with DAO (although I wouldn't object if it did).

That said, its never going to happen. The people who made DAO have long since left Bioware, and that kind of game doesn't fit with the EA vision or business model. DAI was probably my last Bioware game (unless they do a massive about-face on some core game design elements), which is shame, because DA is my favourite game setting. Luckily, there are lots of great CRPGs coming out through via Kickstarter and indie devs to fill the niche that Bioware no longer does.

That is essentially what kickstarter is for....People start out with niche or stay with kickstarter to make niche genre games.You can't expect a AAA company to appeal to a niche group & expect them to make games for charity.That's is stupid in every sense of the word.I would hate for them to make the same game over & over Call of Duty gets bashed for the same exact reason.

Also,to the OP the answer is they just don't want to.

In general,you could also go through button smashing in Origins,as well.Origins was not a tactical thinking game at all unless you played on Hard/Nightmare.Even then with the right builds you could still action all the way through it.

[Torgette]

Unlike DA2 or ME3 which were obviously rushed, DA:O had plenty of time in the oven. The problem with it was that at multiple levels the game ended up being just boring and kind of a chore to complete. No wonder that as of 2012 it had the lowest completion rate of modern BioWare games.

 

It wasn't just some mistakes like forcing the player to slog through far too many repetitive trash mobs or tedious levels like The Fade or infamous Deep Roads (baffling that these would be in a game intended for multiple playthroughs). 

 

The main story was crushingly unoriginal (an ancient evil is overrunning the land...actually **** this, let them) and followed the same old BioWare narrative structure. It felt so generic and tired, a collection of obviously borrowed tropes and ideas in an over-saturated genre. The setting wasn't any better. For some reason the combat speed was set at a snail's pace and also had severe balance issues. Even the muddy art style and dated graphics conspire to bore you. BioWare associated "epic" with "long," and the game just refused to end when it would have been a better experience with tighter pacing and less filler content.

 

Really the best thing it brought to the table were the Origin stories but they needed more reactivity down the line.

 

Also the idea that DA:O was "its own thing" seems a little odd when such an easy criticism against the game can be that it lacks identity. The writing is such an obvious slurry of popular fantasy and the game itself has clear influences like FFXII and MMOs.

 

I'm being harsh here but I don't consider DA:O to be an ideal that should be aspired to. Why aim for blatant mediocrity?

 

Anyways the biggest reason you're not going to get a game that plays like DA:O is that it was a PC game through and through (which was clumsily ported to consoles) and BioWare along with everyone else that makes AAA multiplats has long ago switched to having consoles be the lead platform. Instead of people pining for something that isn't coming back, they should either spare themselves further misery and move on perhaps to something like Pillars of Eternity or accept the new paradigm and offer suggestions on how to make a better game within it.

 

I agree with most of what you said, I think people are latching onto DAO as an ideal because they're not happy with the sequels, not because DAO was an objective ideal to begin with. It had issues, was a slog to play, the story and themes played it safe, etc. I remember people comparing it unfavorably to TW1 and 2 which is ironic nowadays because each Witcher game does things very differently (even dumbing down of gameplay) yet it hasn't had this kind of backlash.

 

DAI's problems are things that largely require more time in the oven to flesh out, it's rife with scale not meeting development reality, not that every idea was terrible.

[Rawgrim]

That is essentially what kickstarter is for....People start out with niche or stay with kickstarter to make niche genre games.You can't expect a AAA company to appeal to a niche group & expect them to make games for charity.That's is stupid in every sense of the word.I would hate for them to make the same game over & over Call of Duty gets bashed for the same exact reason.

Also,to the OP the answer is they just don't want to.

In general,you could also go through button smashing in Origins,as well.Origins was not a tactical thinking game at all unless you played on Hard/Nightmare.Even then with the right builds you could still action all the way through it.

 

I wouldn't say it is all about niche games. A lot of them are also sequels to hugely popular games, that the current franchise owners have abandoned for whatever reason.

 

 

Actually you can't button mash in Origins since the game has auto-attack only. And I doubt anyone can just walk through the game, and even make good builds, the first time they played it. The game might not be the chess of rpgs, but I certainly got destroyed a few times on Normal the first time I played it.

[In Exile]

Actually you can't button mash in Origins since the game has auto-attack only. And I doubt anyone can just walk through the game, and even make good builds, the first time they played it. The game might not be the chess of rpgs, but I certainly got destroyed a few times on Normal the first time I played it.

 

I walked through it. Perhaps it was a bit by luck - I only picked abilities that did direct damage, and I was a mage - but it wasn't hard at all. I can only imagine if someone tried a warrior (esp. a 2Her) or a rogue (I still can't build a rogue that isn't ass; I only take Leliana and Zevran along when I want a fodder companion). 

[FieryDove]

I mean it was well received and many liked it, why not actually make sequels to it instead some lame spin offs? 

The DA series sadly has no identity at all, every game feels like a completely new series its very inconsistent 

Even if you like DA2 (I actually do, it just pales in comparison with DA:O) or DA:I (nope) one can't deny this 

 

DA:O was its own thing and instead of proper sequels Bioware tried to go all Mass Effect with DA2 (but in a lamer way) and DA:I was basically a poor man's Skyrim 

 

So anyone have a good answer to this?

Why can't DA be more like DA:Origins?

 

 

I think because according to the tools BW had at the time many quit playing after an hour or two. If you really DIG you can find old vids of the Devs stating that. In fact Mike later went on to say basically people are terrified of RPG's. Too many numbers/stats/abilities etc. Plus the complaints about Origins combat being slow/sluggish. So with this thinking things change.

 

D2 was produced in 11 months. It is a miracle with what they did manage to put out. People think it was in production before origins shipped. It was not. People also forget awakening. D2 didn't really start till after awakenings got baked.

 

D4 will probably be another reinvention till they are satisfied with the outcome.