159 réponses à ce sujet

[Auztin]

I wouldn't say it is all about niche games. A lot of them are also sequels to hugely popular games, that the current franchise owners have abandoned for whatever reason.


Actually you can't button mash in Origins since the game has auto-attack only. And I doubt anyone can just walk through the game, and even make good builds, the first time they played it. The game might not be the chess of rpgs, but I certainly got destroyed a few times on Normal the first time I played it.

I button smashed all my abilities till I was out of stamina & had 300 potions.Hell I even beat the archdemon with tier 3 armor & human noble weapon & shield.First time around I played it.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Basically a copy and paste of the same game with different names.

In DA:O2 you're a Dark Warden fighting Greyspawn. With you're trusty sidekicks Balistair and Shmorrigan.

[Shechinah]

Actually you can't button mash in Origins since the game has auto-attack only. And I doubt anyone can just walk through the game, and even make good builds, the first time they played it. The game might not be the chess of rpgs, but I certainly got destroyed a few times on Normal the first time I played it.

 

I'm going to be honest here; I did not use mods, exploits or console command and I had no trouble playing through Origins on normal difficulty without considering tactics or employing combat preparation. I even used a party solely based on whom I liked when it let me and only used a variety on my second run.

 

That's me, of course, and it's certainly not meant to put you down, Rawgrim, it is just to say that, to me, Origins was not a game that required me to be considering of battle or behavior beyond really; "there's a mage, I should go stab him" and even that's not necessary.

 

TL:DR; I'll have to disagree with you on not being able to walk through the game based on my own personal experience and first run.  
 

[Googleness]

They need consistency.

I played Baldur's Gate series and I knew each installment was D&D, IE, top to bottom camera game.

I played NWN series which I knew it was basically BG but in 3d, new d&D rules and toolset for new adventures and content.

I played Mass Effect series and I knew each game was third person shooter in space,, in sci-fi environment where the story is cinematic and in cutscenes. 

 

I play Dragon age series... 

Each game is different game and the need to import saves from previous games is only to set the world state so you'll not get "wut" moments meeting DEAD characters like leliana ... oops.

At any rate the point is the dragon age games are like different game each time, it is hard even for veteran dragon age player to recognize the new systems with each game... but once you recognize them it's over... ****** easy cheesy game.

So why not stick with one formula for the gameplay and improve the content?

[Torgette]

They need consistency.

I played Baldur's Gate series and I knew each installment was D&D, IE, top to bottom camera game.

I played NWN series which I knew it was basically BG but in 3d, new d&D rules and toolset for new adventures and content.

I played Mass Effect series and I knew each game was third person shooter in space,, in sci-fi environment where the story is cinematic and in cutscenes. 

 

I play Dragon age series... 

Each game is different game and the need to import saves from previous games is only to set the world state so you'll not get "wut" moments meeting DEAD characters like leliana ... oops.

At any rate the point is the dragon age games are like different game each time, it is hard even for veteran dragon age player to recognize the new systems with each game... but once you recognize them it's over... ****** easy cheesy game.

So why not stick with one formula for the gameplay and improve the content?

 

I get your point but Mass Effect changed tremendously from ME1 to ME2 combat wise, 2 was like an entirely new IP. 3 changed a lot as well, it's just something Bioware does nowadays. Same goes for the Witcher games, those have changed a lot over the years. I don't mind the changes in fact I welcome them as certain classes were just not very good in DAO, but I do think if a certain class was fun in the previous game it shouldn't be nerfed.

[AlanC9]

I seem to remember ME combat being radically redesigned once, and the class and ability systems being redesigned twice.

[Googleness]

Mass Effect is the same principal from Mass Effect to Mass Effect 3, each game made small changes and improvement but the basics were the same from first to last.

[Torgette]

Mass Effect is the same principal from Mass Effect to Mass Effect 3, each game made small changes and improvement but the basics were the same from first to last.

 

The powers were pretty radically different between 1 vs. 2+3, weapons/armor and loot were very different, 2 introduced ammo instead of cooldowns, sticky cover became a thing, etc. they were only similar in that they were 3rd person shooters.

[In Exile]

The powers were pretty radically different between 1 vs. 2+3, weapons/armor and loot were very different, 2 introduced ammo instead of cooldowns, sticky cover became a thing, etc. they were only similar in that they were 3rd person shooters.

Even calling both TPS is a stretch. What they shared was the camera angle. But everything else notable about it changed.

[FemShem]

Okay, I'm going to fictionally create your product and this is the only viable way I can come up with for it to be made.  This is from the entertainment industry perspective, but it would cross-over well, and you'll get my point.

Okay, if you made DA:O2... in a traditional since it would probably be a flop.  Remember Jewel of the Nile, Cocoon 2, Police Academy 2, Pirates of the Caribbean 2, Robocop 2, and these are typical cookie cutter sequels.  Same characters, rehashed plot, but more of it...and unfortunately what fans think they want and what producers are willing to spend lots of cash on (definitely larger budget).

Aliens 2, The second season of Spartacus, T2 and Evil Dead 2, were remade into something greater than the original by redefining the original.  ME2 was better than ME1, certainly, but under the same principal you use to create. (I'm just coming up with stuff rattling around in my wet noodle, there are better examples but you get the jist.

In order to create a good sequel to anything the producing company has to be winning to think out of the box.  Most fans think they want the same thing the producers are willing to order up and pay good cash to hire the best peeps to do it...writing the same thing again.

It's awful.

They really don't. You really don't.  See the list above and 10,000 others just like them, rinse and repeat, and they all made money.  There is money in it, but not often a good product.

If you want both, let's find a compromise.

You can keep a main character (player controlled) then you have to make the old world and characters seem new.  In order to do this, you can't rehash the characters you have, you have to create new and interesting ones, develop a plot that would also be original and untapped, in other words getting a corporation to go along with it is a B!**H.

I talk about movsie, just because script doctoring is what I used to do. (Fix **** for money and let people take credit for what you do, say nothing, and walk away...and Maker no, I was never big enough to doctor anything with that big a budget.)

The best way to do it, that the company could sell (and maybe you could convince them to make it would be a prequel (no not SW) more like Sparticus the series...where they were waiting for the lead to heal up, and shot a partial season without him).  It took some great writing, but something like that would not let you play your Warden again.

Seriously, there are many ways to do it, but to create the game you are asking for and make it desirable to you and the marketplace would be a tall order.

So we need to create a sequel where you will now have a voiced (some will hate it) Warden and maybe you can keep Leliana or Alister as a playable companion, if they were your love interest or a default.  

Start the player out sweeping up after old Darkspawn (typical sequel move) kill off your entire party sans Leliana or Alister and you can only save one (Pricy, but BioWare let you make the choice in ME1).  Everyone dies or gets thrown to the four winds (Morrigan, Zephran, etc have to live because it's established in cannon, (we're already limiting our surprise factor here).

Really good writers, and Bioware has them (these peeps operate off really good plot structures) can work really well inside of a 4X4 box with a ton of rules you can't break because of Canon, and ask them to be creative.  I find writers work really creatively with ridiculous restraints.

Okay Indiana Jones 3 we reinvented the wheel and brought in Sean Connery as Dad, T2, Schwarzenegger wanted to play the good guy not the bad one, Evil Dead 2, Peeps did everything the could do well or afford in Evil Dead 1.

You can always have a smart writing team write a good sequel with a good vision, the people who pay to have sequels walk in with nice contracts, fat checks and really bad ideas...but they do have the money and somehow have the power to hire and fire you...(people talk about EA enough...they are the wallet).

So DA:O2 has to be marketed to sell to an Inquisition crowd too...

We need a whole new epic story that will not interfere with current cannon (and hopefully move the cannon forward in an unexpected way).  This needs to be done in an isolated pocket.  Essentially what BioWare did with DA2.  We'll make it a microcosm.  Saving a city not Thedas, but the influences and ramifications are far reaching.

Within such town, say we pick every nook and cranny of Denerim, we have the beginning of characters there (Sera), maybe others too, Alister or Queen Anora nearby (now they will be fleshed out because we are saving Thedas through crap happening in town X).  Keep party camp, and everything else must be reinvented...

See where I'm going with this?  If we take something as simple as a continuation story in T2, but just switch around casting the ramifications change the whole movie and opens up the writing possibilities. DA:O2 is similar.

We are going to pick up our 9 party members most with interesting subplots who could later backstab you.  I.e. Samson is on hiatus from being a Templar at this time, he's a hell of a tank, we could good miles with that toon and stay within cannon and the rules.

Do you see where this idea is going?  If you want to make a viable package, we're on to a good start; however, is this the game your looking for?  

Sorry, I'm fading on cold meds, but lets talk about viability at the glimpse of a sequel like this, and we can flesh it out for fun if anyone is interested in what if(ing) it.  

Seriously, you as a fan want to go to EA and say I have a clever marketing play for a sequel to DA:O...it's unheard of, but then again I never thought fans of anything could get EA to pay for the change in ending to ME3.

We could develop it as a committee idea on this thread.

You play bossman, we'll come up with the pitch...could be I've missed "the great game" so to speak, but I've been sick for the last four years...so you want to fictionally create it...why not...anyone?!?


 

[TheOgre]

-skip-

 

Question -- what are your thoughts of DAI?

[CronoDragoon]

sry to break it it to you but DA:O came first 

try harder

 

When has that ever mattered?

[TheOgre]

I agree with most of what you said, I think people are latching onto DAO as an ideal because they're not happy with the sequels, not because DAO was an objective ideal to begin with. It had issues, was a slog to play, the story and themes played it safe, etc. I remember people comparing it unfavorably to TW1 and 2 which is ironic nowadays because each Witcher game does things very differently (even dumbing down of gameplay) yet it hasn't had this kind of backlash.

 

DAI's problems are things that largely require more time in the oven to flesh out, it's rife with scale not meeting development reality, not that every idea was terrible.

 

I surprisingly took Wolfhowls post more seriously than yours after that highlighted part. Unless you were referring solely to the main quest.

[TheOgre]

Loved DAO

 

Very afraid of what would happen if they did make a DAO:2 :/ after DAI's claim that DAO fans would be pleased with the combat UI, heh...

 

quoting this again - I don't think they will do anyone any favors by trying to make a spin off. Continue with the story they were telling even if the direction is garbage.

[bEVEsthda]

Some comments on all the twisted things people in this thread have written:

Mass Effect was published by Microsoft. EA had nothing to do with it at that point. ME originally wasn't published for the PC. That came much later, under EA, so EA is only the publisher for the PC version. One of the concerns when EA purchased Bioware, was what would happen to the ME trilogy. Remember, ME was planned as a trilogy from the start, though I'm pretty sure the story deviated considerably from the original plan.

DA:O was basically finished, but was held back for a year because EA wanted a console version, and wanted the PC and console versions to be launched at the same time. I suspect DA:O was also somewhat changed, in order to be the same game on consoles, but we'll never know to what extent.

 

As for sales, I don't think that EA has ever really tried to sell the DA:O game concept. The original CoD and ES games didn't sell in 20 millions either. Not at all. Those kind of sales is something that is built progressively through increased mindshare. Sometimes that mindshare can be built by related games, but in the case of CoD and ES it was done through true sequels. An effective marketing concept which EA in particular have always denied themselves. I don't really know why, but there is this black, many-tentacled monster living inside EA which always convince everybody that they will sell more, if they ruin the game. It has never worked, but they never quit trying.

 

Personally, I'd have to say that given the limitations of EA and the new Bioware, I'm quite happy with how DA:I turned out. If this is the new foundation for the franchise, I really don't think things look so bad.

[AlanC9]

Remember, ME was planned as a trilogy from the start, though I'm pretty sure the story deviated considerably from the original plan.

There was a plan?

[AresKeith]

Remember, ME was planned as a trilogy from the start

 

I'm pretty sure Bioware said the opposite of this

 

The trilogy sure shows it

[SardaukarElite]

I'm pretty sure Bioware said the opposite of this

 

They said before ME1 launched that it was the first in a trilogy, but I'm fairly sure they said they didn't plan out the whole plot as well.

[AresKeith]

They said before ME1 launched that it was the first in a trilogy, but I'm fairly sure they said they didn't plan out the whole plot as well.

 

Ah ok, that's the part I remeber

 

Yea the trilogy definitely shows this

[SardaukarElite]

Yea the trilogy definitely shows this

 

Pretty much. Though, planning out a trilogy and actually releasing it obviously isn't an easy thing so it's an understandable approach.

[KaiserShep]

DA:O's story wasn't creative by any means but at least it was well presented and long, DA:I's story was short and half assed

 

DA:O's story isn't actually long either. What I feel really pads time is that it can go a bit overboard with the dungeon crawling to get to your objective. The Fade is the absolute worst to me because you go backward almost as often as you're going forward, and it becomes very wearisome. The Temple of Sacred Ashes and the Arl of Denerim's estate were a couple of the better ones, but I just don't care for the Fade or the Deep Roads, because they can feel like serious chores. Fond as I am of DA:O, subsequent playthroughs seriously test my patience.

[MorriganPet]

Because EA would not let Bioware do it.

 

DAO was finished before EA stepped in. It was done by artists who cared about quality.

 

DAO had class ! DAI is an assembly line product...and a cheap one at that...the mark of EA!

 

Remember the Ultima games...how popular they were...then EA bought the rights to cash in on the popularity and ...made just one game...that killed the series ! Wonder if Dragon Age series is dead already.

 

DAO will stay in memory...characters , party banter , wisdom sayings...and most of all the feeling that I belong there...I am not a stranger to my role and I relate to my companions...and isn't that the first priority in a Role Playing Game !

 

I can still see myself and my party around that beut campfire...Morrigan's fire a distance off...I am walking towards it...the sound of my footsteps seems like real life... and Morrigan Ahh...MORRIGAN !

 

And DAI ...What about DAI ?

 

I bought a copy on November 19...and returned it the next day.

[suirazul]

Because no one can agree on what that is, or if it's even a good thing.

 

Dragon Age Origins II wouldn't have all the politically correct concepts added just to appease certain groups. It would simply be similar in nature to Dragon Age Origins in almost every way while presenting a fascinating new story.