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[Master Warder Z_]

Context is key. Like, killing Arl Howe is preferable to letting him live, because he's an unrepentant jackass and murderer himself.

Had some awesome quotes though.

[KaiserShep]

Had some awesome quotes though.

Well if you're going to die, you'd might as well have some memorable last words.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well if you're going to die, you'd might as well have some memorable last words.

"I made your mother kiss my boot; it was the last thing your father saw. Meet my blade and change that!"

*nods*

Memorable.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Josephine's career as a bard was very short-lived. She basically quit after having to kill someone. She had a romanticized view of what it was like, and when confronted by the reality, she quit.

 

As such she's not really the best example of what sort of activities they get up to. I would think Leliana is probably a more typical example.

True, though I think it was also trying to show that bards can have more breadth to them other than the "murdering seducing spies" that Leliana and Marjolaine were by showing that some could be genuinely good people. 

 

 

Actually the Locust and the Flood have shown that some ways of not-killing people are worse for their victims than any death, they basically torture until let you as a pity of vegetable.

I don't know what the Locust are, but fair enough with the Flood. Though I don't think they count since we aren't parasitic creatures bent on serving a Gravemind to infect and assimilate all life. 

 

Context is key. Like, killing Arl Howe is preferable to letting him live, because he's an unrepentant jackass and murderer himself. Obviously you don't have a choice here, but let's be honest, hardly anyone would bother to spare the toolbag.

I always take someone in alive to face judgement if possible.

[Master Warder Z_]

I don't know what the Locust are, but fair enough with the Flood. Though I don't think they count since we aren't parasitic creatures bent on serving a Gravemind to infect and assimilate all life.

I think he meant the UNSC and Covenant glassing portions of South Africa.

To prevent spread of the infection.

[KaiserShep]

I always take someone in alive to face judgement if possible.

 

I guess that depends on the Warden as well. Perhaps if it was a dwarf or Dalish elf, but a human noble or a city elf, whose friends and family were sold to Tevinter slavers? Yeah, vengeance will be swift and it will be bloody.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I guess that depends on the Warden as well. Perhaps if it was a dwarf or Dalish elf, but a human noble or a city elf, whose friends and family were sold to Tevinter slavers? Yeah, vengeance will be swift and it will be bloody.

Nope. Even my Human Noble and Elf(Dalish Elf reacts the same way to the slave trade and purge) would arrest rather than kill if possible. 

 

Vengeance is not justice. As we literally see in Dragon Age, vengeance is justice that is twisted by wrath. 

[KaiserShep]

Fair enough. I just don't suffer vermin to live. Old Erimond thought he was going to get glory in the next world, but all he got was a hole for his remains.

 

But I am curious. How do you deal with the Tevinter slaver in Denerim? You can't detain him, but if he goes free, he's guaranteed to go right back to using slaves elsewhere.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nope. Even my Human Noble and Elf(Dalish Elf reacts the same way to the slave trade and purge) would arrest rather than kill if possible. 

 

Vengeance is not justice. As we literally see in Dragon Age, vengeance is justice that is twisted by wrath. 

 

Meh. I'd hardly take Justice as an authority on justice in the first place, and would argue that the two can overlap.

[The Elder King]

I guess that depends on the Warden as well. Perhaps if it was a dwarf or Dalish elf, but a human noble or a city elf, whose friends and family were sold to Tevinter slavers? Yeah, vengeance will be swift and it will be bloody.

Nope. Even my Human Noble and Elf(Dalish Elf reacts the same way to the slave trade and purge) would arrest rather than kill if possible.

Vengeance is not justice. As we literally see in Dragon Age, vengeance is justice that is twisted by wrath.

I agree with Hanako (well, not on Justice). It depends on how you build your character.

That said, my canon Warden would've killed him anyway, since he was blinded be rage from the moment he saw him at the staff of the Landsmeet arc (and seeing Loghain being his buddy didn't help).

[Andromelek]

I think he meant the UNSC and Covenant glassing portions of South Africa.
To prevent spread of the infection.

It's a good example, but I meant the Forerunner-Flood war, the Primordial just toyed with them and in the end he revealed to the Librarian all the times that he fooled the Forerunner and how they screwed it:

First, they spread the rumour of a cure, which actually never existed, that made the Forerunner built advanced Laboratories to research the Flood that were also safehouses against Halo.

Second he tortured the Didact until madness, making him built an army over the sacrifice and the tortured souls of his own warriors and innocent humans.

Last but not least, he revealed that the Dominion (A kind of Database used by the Forerunners to save all their records and knowledge) was truly a neural based computer made by the Precursors, and as such, it would be destroyed by the Halos, meaning that by shooting their last way to stop the Flood, the Forerunners would not only destroy themselves, but every record that they had and they would be nearly extinguished and forgotten for every specie that they saved, and the remaining Forerunners would see how their fallen commander begin to destroy everything they tried to protect.

[KaiserShep]

I agree with Hanako (well, not on Justice). It depends on how you build your character.

That said, my canon Warden would've killed him anyway, since he was blinded be rage from the moment he saw him at the staff of the Landsmeet arc (and seeing Loghain being his buddy didn't help).

 

Yeah, it got even worse for my Warden when walking around the Arl of Denerim's estate. If you wander around the halls, you will hear chitchat about the terrible things that they did at Highever Castle. Needless to say, I kill everyone in the building. I also went with the final decision to simply fight through Cauthrien rather than surrender, because thinking on it, surrendering is stupid, which is a shame, because I do love the rescue scene.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Fair enough. I just don't suffer vermin to live. Old Erimond thought he was going to get glory in the next world, but all he got was a hole for his remains.

 

But I am curious. How do you deal with the Tevinter slaver in Denerim? You can't detain him, but if he goes free, he's guaranteed to go right back to using slaves elsewhere.

The Tevinter slaver is a different situation since as you said detaining is not an option. As I said, when the option is available I take it. When detaining isn't an option, and in this case releasing him involves him murdering all the elves in the room to give you a reward, then I have no choice but to kill him. If they gave us an option to incarcerated him, I'd've chosen it. 

 

Yeah, it got even worse for my Warden when walking around the Arl of Denerim's estate. If you wander around the halls, you will hear chitchat about the terrible things that they did at Highever Castle. Needless to say, I kill everyone in the building. I also went with the final decision to simply fight through Cauthrien rather than surrender, because thinking on it, surrendering is stupid, which is a shame, because I do love the rescue scene.

Congratulations, your Warden is just as bad as the people you hate and murdered(yes, killing the guards is murder since you start the fight).

[The Elder King]

Yeah, it got even worse for my Warden when walking around the Arl of Denerim's estate. If you wander around the halls, you will hear chitchat about the terrible things that they did at Highever Castle. Needless to say, I kill everyone in the building. I also went with the final decision to simply fight through Cauthrien rather than surrender, because thinking on it, surrendering is stupid, which is a shame, because I do love the rescue scene.

Yeah, the Whole part before rescuing Anora is a fuel on the Warden's hatred of Howe.
I actually went with surrendering. After killing Howe he was a bit lost. Both because of finally killing the murderer of his family (Which death affected greatly my Warden) and for the way he acted after meeting Howe at Eamon's residence. He needed time to process it.

[The Elder King]

The Tevinter slaver is a different situation since as you said detaining is not an option. As I said, when the option is available I take it. When detaining isn't an option, and in this case releasing him involves him murdering all the elves in the room to give you a reward, then I have no choice but to kill him. If they gave us an option to incarcerated him, I'd've chosen it.


Congratulations, you are just as bad as the people you hate and murdered(yes, killing the guards is murder since you start the fight).

I'd say 'your Warden'.
Which guards Are you talking About? I remember some fights Are player-initiated, but a good part You're forced to fight.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd say 'your Warden'.
Which guards Are you talking About? I remember some fights Are player-initiated, but a good part You're forced to fight.

I would think the term 'you' referring to their character in the game and not the real them would be obvious, but I edited it. 

 

The ones in the dungeons you have to fight, but the ones in the estate that Kaiser was referring to can be passed without fighting. You just have to wear the guard uniform. 

[KaiserShep]

The Tevinter slaver is a different situation since as you said detaining is not an option. As I said, when the option is available I take it. When detaining isn't an option, and in this case releasing him involves him murdering all the elves in the room to give you a reward, then I have no choice but to kill him. If they gave us an option to incarcerated him, I'd've chosen it. 

 

 

No, you have a choice that allows both him to leave unharmed and the elves to be rescued. After refusing his offer to boost your constitution with their blood, he will instead offer up the evidence in exchange for his life, and you can choose whether or not to make the deal and allow him to leave. Problem is, he's a Tevinter slaver and blood mage. Asking whether or not he will snatch up more slaves later is like asking whether or not the sun will rise. It's the same reason why I changed my mind on the Castillon decision in DA2, and decided that it's preferable to eliminate him rather than allow him to leave to conduct his insidious business.

 

 

Congratulations, you are just as bad as the people you hate and murdered(yes, killing the guards is murder since you start the fight).

 

I'm not compelled by this brand of morality, or moralizing in general, but if you wish to equate my Warden (or myself) with lying traitors that torture and murder innocent people along with their children for sake of one man's ambitions, then sure, go nuts. But they started that fight when they aligned with the enemy and sacked Highever castle. In the end, what's the difference? The only way to leave the estate without being shipped off to prison is to kill everyone anyway.

[The Elder King]

I would think the term 'you' referring to their character in the game and not the real them would be obvious, but I edited it. 
 
The ones in the dungeons you have to fight, but the ones in the estate that Kaiser was referring to can be passed without fighting. You just have to wear the guard uniform.

Thanks. I recalled the guard uniform, but not When the cover ended and/or you can discovered.

[KaiserShep]

If you walk into a room you'll come across a guard doing something with a servant girl, and he'll realize you're not one of them and start calling the rest to attack you, regardless of your disguise.

[The Elder King]

 

 
I'm not compelled by this brand of morality, or moralizing in general, but if you wish to equate my Warden (or myself) with lying traitors that torture and murder innocent people along with their children for sake of one man's ambitions, then sure, go nuts. But they started that fight when they aligned with the enemy and sacked Highever castle. In the end, what's the difference? The only way to leave the estate without being shipped off to prison is to kill everyone anyway.

To be fair, I think a good part Of the soldiers in Denerim might've Been serving the previous arle of Denerim, and remained with Howe after he was appointed as his successor by Loghain.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Thanks. I recalled the guard uniform, but not When the cover ended and/or you can discovered.

You're welcome. 

 

If you walk into a room you'll come across a guard doing something with a servant girl, and he'll realize you're not one of them and start calling the rest to attack you, regardless of your disguise.

You only fight him. 

[KaiserShep]

No you don't. If you're discovered by that guard, the girl runs screaming out of the room and everyone else is instantly hostile. That's usually how I initiate my sweep and clear of the estate.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No, you have a choice that allows both him to leave unharmed and the elves to be rescued. After refusing his offer to boost your constitution with their blood, he will instead offer up the evidence in exchange for his life, and you can choose whether or not to make the deal and allow him to leave. Problem is, he's a Tevinter slaver and blood mage. Asking whether or not he will snatch up more slaves later is like asking whether or not the sun will rise. It's the same reason why I changed my mind on the Castillon decision in DA2, and decided that it's preferable to eliminate him rather than allow him to leave to conduct his insidious business.

No, the choice at that point is "Let one man go so thousands suffer" or "Make one man suffer so thousands don't". If there was a third choice of "Arrest one man so thousands don't", I would choose that. But since it doesn't, it goes to the defense of others, which is different than murder. 

 

 

I'm not compelled by this brand of morality, or moralizing in general, but if you wish to equate my Warden (or myself) with lying traitors that torture and murder innocent people along with their children for sake of one man's ambitions, then sure, go nuts. But they started that fight when they aligned with the enemy and sacked Highever castle. In the end, what's the difference? The only way to leave the estate without being shipped off to prison is to kill everyone anyway.

So murdering dozens of people so you don't go to jail is preferable? Yeah, your Warden definitely isn't like Howe with putting the lives of many, including innocents, under your ambition in terms of importance.

 

Can't say I'm surprised though. Your avatar has Sera in it and she embraces the philosophy of "It's okay to murder murderers" throughout Inquisition. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No you don't. If you're discovered by that guard, the girl runs screaming out of the room and everyone else is instantly hostile. That's usually how I initiate my sweep and clear of the estate.

Well, whenever I enter that room the only person who fights is the one guard in there.

[The Elder King]

No, the choice at that point is "Let one man go so thousands suffer" or "Make one man suffer so thousands don't". If there was a third choice of "Arrest one man so thousands don't", I would choose that. But since it doesn't, it goes to the defense of others, which is different than murder.



So murdering dozens of people so you don't go to jail is preferable? Yeah, you definitely aren't like Howe with putting the lives of many under your ambition in terms of importance.

Can't say I'm surprised though. Your avatar has Sera in it and she embraces the philosophy of "It's okay to murder murderers" throughout Inquisition.

Well, unless you metagame, you don't know what will happen if you surrender. Loghain might as well try to execute you. He already tried to kill you three Times.