124 réponses à ce sujet

[L. Han]

A lot of people pretty seem sour on the idea of going to the Andromeda, getting their panties in a bunch about leaving the Milky Way. But what would it take to make such a story work for such a person? I threw together an outline of a story that I think would accommodate pretty much every desire, short of just staying in the Milky Way.

·         Humans, Asari, Turians, Salarians, Krogans, Quarians, Batarians, Vorcha, Elcor, Hanar, Drell, Raloi are included, the Ark containing over 4,000 passengers

 

 

With many races and so few in number, I doubt you will last even 2 generations. Don't be silly.

[Golden_Persona]

We all thought BioWare were better than that, evidently not.

Utterly ridiculous. You're making it sound like developing a game is a question of morality or not.

 

People hate the ME3 ending so much they want to forget about it, so Bioware decides to forget about the endings and start something new, with a few links to the original games... and then people complain that Bioware is forgetting the endings. I forget the expression, but its about cake and something to do with having it and eating it too, it's a weird exooootic expression that I just can't seem to remember...

 

Bioware is never ever ever going to do anything about the endings, in ME3 and beyond. Stop being selfish, majority of people either have an ending they loved, liked, or can cope with enough and move on, and Bioware trying to funnel everybody's decisions into an even more cramped space is how we got the endings to begin with. Whether you like Control, Destroy, Synthesis, Refusal, or MEHEM, people have the endings they can deal with, and there's no point in Bioware messing with that. They know the ending situation was a disaster, and I'm sure all the writers who worked on the series felt shafted when the ending was left to a couple guys. Allow them to start fresh and try to make up for it.

 

It's also a new team working on ME:N, allow the fresh pair of eyes to do their thing. The original trilogy wasn't even Montreal's baby, it was Edmonton's baby, so it's best for them to start fresh anyway. It's not like Halo jumping developers in the midst of an ongoing story.

[Torgette]

People hate the ME3 ending so much they want to forget about it, so Bioware decides to forget about the endings and start something new, with a few links to the original games... and then people complain that Bioware is forgetting the endings. I forget the expression, but its about cake and something to do with having it and eating it too, it's a weird exooootic expression that I just can't seem to remember...

 

It's the Zelda cycle basically.

 

For those who don't know, whenever Nintendo comes out with a Zelda game people dislike it. So Nintendo switches things up for the next installment, and people cry fowl and suddenly like the previous Zelda.

[Heimdall]

It's the Zelda cycle basically.

 

For those who don't know, whenever Nintendo comes out with a Zelda game people dislike it. So Nintendo switches things up for the next installment, and people cry fowl and suddenly like the previous Zelda.

That sounds like Mass Effect to me.

 

Before ME2, most people acknowledged the flaws of ME1.  When ME2 came out, everyone hated it on the forums and the first game became golden.  When ME3 came out, ME2 became the best game in the series apparently.

[Cheviot]

That sounds like Mass Effect to me.

 

Before ME2, most people acknowledged the flaws of ME1.  When ME2 came out, everyone hated it on the forums and the first game became golden.  When ME3 came out, ME2 became the best game in the series apparently.

You find this with the forum reception of a lot of games, especially ones in a series. 

[goishen]

I think that wormholes are better off left alone by the BioWare team.  First of all, we don't even know where it will lead, if anywhere.  Second off, even if we did send a probe through, it would be hundreds of years before we got a response from said probe.  Thirdly, right next to the Citadel would mean that the reapers could go through it as well.  Fourthly, if all that was true in my last point, they would be in no way prepared to deal with a reaper regardless of the endings.   They would be even less prepared (by a great amount) than Earth was when it got hit.

[Heimdall]

You find this with the forum reception of a lot of games, especially ones in a series. 

True, though one I found particularly weird was the amount of people on the Inquisition boards going on about how DA2 was the better game.

[Heimdall]

It is to me for a couple of reasons. It was one long origin story and felt personal. That's pretty unique, as far as Bioware goes. Secondly, the typical NPC dialogue and sidequests were cinematic and lengthy. 

 

I could take or leave a lot of other things. They're both going for action RPG type of combat, but it's not better or worse either way. Some classes feel better in one or the other (I like DA2 mages more, but also DAI warriors more).

Fair enough, it just felt incredibly jarring compared to the reception the game got on these boards on release.

[Cheviot]

True, though one I found particularly weird was the amount of people on the Inquisition boards going on about how DA2 was the better game.

Yeah, the first time I really spotted it was weird (it was for a different game), but the more I saw it in different the places, it occurred to me what might be going on: basically, people always liked DA2 (or ME2, etc.), but the negative voices (the ones who think it didn't compare to a previous game) drowned them out, but now those negative voices have moved on to the latest game, meaning those positive views are no longer drowned out.

[Heimdall]

I know what you mean. But I stuck it out and defended it around here... And I was really hoping DAI would be more of the same, but better. I got the Collector's edition and everything.

 

It seems like they were trying to please a different crowd that the ones who stuck with them. I'm not sure I can blame them though.

Oh, I liked it too.

 

Way I see it, they were trying to find a middleground between the first two games while latching on to the open world bandwagon so many developers have latched onto since Skyrim and then some parts went in other directions.

[Vazgen]

Mass Effect 3 praised as the best Mass Effect game? I'll believe it when I see it. And will welcome the change of attitude

[CrutchCricket]

In Mass Effect 3 we have weapons that make it not as a one-sided fight. We see a few dreadnought using their main cannons rip a Reaper Dreadnought apart in the Battle of Earth. And again, you're assuming we'll appear next to the vanguard and he'll react, despite there being nothing to support that notion and stuff to go against it, like the fact Sovereign didn't do anything until the harvest was ready.

Irrelevant. We won't have a tenth of the firepower in Andromeda that we had in ME3. That and we'll basically be a bigger, more diverse Migrant Fleet. Every quarian ship larger than a frigate technically has the firepower of a dreadnaught. Does that mean they're going to run at a Reaper? Hell no.

Also check your facts. Sovereign was doing cartwheels trying to covertly get the harvest going before ME1. It's implied (if not outright stated) that it was the driving force behind the Rachni Wars (or at least their continuation). The Saren Geth plan was a last-ditch desperate effort (or whatever the Reaper equivalent of desparate is).
 

The Relays in one galaxy don't have to be connected to the relays of another. Each can run on their own system. Thus we have Relays but they aren't affected by the Crucible thus we escaped the endings.

That makes zero sense. The Reapers wouldn't be making the trip between galaxies conventionally, repeatedly. If there is a Citadel sized relay connecting them (or even multiple stops one to dark space, one to Andromeda, which again doesn't make sense), then the RGB wave happened in both galaxies.
 

That's why I've been saying for several posts now that just because the Reapers have been there and like here left Mass Relays doesn't mean they'll show up again in the plot of the new games. Just like how our cycle has Prothean technology but the Protheans(not counting Javik since he is optional DLC) never show up.

Or, you can accept the Reapers are done and just bring in something new. Like the ending or hate it, I have yet to see a single person who wants more Reapers.
 

You can explain it, but how much does it come across as complete contrivance is the question.

A quick, desperate scramble to assemble a generation vessel out of an Ezo rich asteroid would make more sense if the galaxy is looking for last second attempts to avoid extinction. It would make the desperation of the people of the galaxy more engaging than if we secretly had an Ark ship mothballing in some warehouse somewhere.

Maybe not a fully built Ark ship. But a precursor hastily modified. If you make up some fantastic celestial body theorized to be just outside this galaxy you could then design a massive vessel whose purpose is to go out and study it. The repurposing would of course be almost equally massive in scope but you wouldn't be starting from zero, nor would you have a galactic cataclysm escape vehicle just pulled out of an ass.
 

It was directly said on multiple occassions that Reapers do not go to other galaxies, they harvest Milky Way and then sleep in the dark space. Unles they retcon it, there should be no signs of Reapers in Andromeda. Besides we already saw screenshots of remnant structures and possibly their gateways.

Spoiler

Where is this from?

[dreamgazer]

Yeah, the first time I really spotted it was weird (it was for a different game), but the more I saw it in different the places, it occurred to me what might be going on: basically, people always liked DA2 (or ME2, etc.), but the negative voices (the ones who think it didn't compare to a previous game) drowned them out, but now those negative voices have moved on to the latest game, meaning those positive views are no longer drowned out.

Ding, ding, ding.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Irrelevant. We won't have a tenth of the firepower in Andromeda that we had in ME3. That and we'll basically be a bigger, more diverse Migrant Fleet. Every quarian ship larger than a frigate technically has the firepower of a dreadnaught. Does that mean they're going to run at a Reaper? Hell no.

Also check your facts. Sovereign was doing cartwheels trying to covertly get the harvest going before ME1. It's implied (if not outright stated) that it was the driving force behind the Rachni Wars (or at least their continuation). The Saren Geth plan was a last-ditch desperate effort (or whatever the Reaper equivalent of desparate is).

There would also be only one Reaper. Four Dreadnoughts with Thanix cannons can destroy one Reaper. You think we wouldn't have four Dreadnoughts in centuries? We get that in years. But this is academic because again: just have the Reaper vanguard sleeping thus never shows up. 

 

It was then later implied that what influenced the Rachni was not the Reapers but the Leviathans. And Saren and the Heretics were during ME1. 

 

That makes zero sense. The Reapers wouldn't be making the trip between galaxies conventionally, repeatedly. If there is a Citadel sized relay connecting them (or even multiple stops one to dark space, one to Andromeda, which again doesn't make sense), then the RGB wave happened in both galaxies.

It makes perfect sense. The only reason it doesn't is because you don't want it to. 

 

Or, you can accept the Reapers are done and just bring in something new. Like the ending or hate it, I have yet to see a single person who wants more Reapers.

Hence me stating repeatedly the Reapers don't have to show up. The only Reaper thing that would show up in the game is the Mass Relays.

[CrutchCricket]

There would also be only one Reaper. Four Dreadnoughts with Thanix cannons can destroy one Reaper. You think we wouldn't have four Dreadnoughts in centuries? We get that in years. But this is academic because again: just have the Reaper vanguard sleeping thus never shows up. 
 
It was then later implied that what influenced the Rachni was not the Reapers but the Leviathans. And Saren and the Heretics were during ME1.

Amusing. It sounds like you're picturing them going muzzle to muzzle in space. Combat does not work that way. Not that I know where you're getting these centuries from anyway.

And oh look at that, we have a retcon. Of precisely the same type as I'm suggesting. So they are acceptable after all.
 

It makes perfect sense. The only reason it doesn't is because you don't want it to.

Wrong. The only possible reason they wouldn't be connected is because you don't want them to. 
 

Hence me stating repeatedly the Reapers don't have to show up. The only Reaper thing that would show up in the game is the Mass Relays.

Whether they show up or not is irrelevant. One or more possible Reapers still kicking is an unacceptable quantity over the set limit, which is now zero.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Amusing. It sounds like you're picturing them going muzzle to muzzle in space. Combat does not work that way. Not that I know where you're getting these centuries from anyway.

*reads Codex about space battles* Yes, that's how it goes when Dreadnoughts are involved. And the centuries is me humoring you and your notion that the Reaper in Andromeda would know of the colonists by giving the time they nap as a cushion. Again, they never have to show up once we get there, but just have the Relays be there showing at one point they were. 

 

And oh look at that, we have a retcon. Of precisely the same type as I'm suggesting. So they are acceptable after all.

It's not a retcon since it was never confirmed the Reapers were the ones who controlled the Rachni. A retcon would be "Hey, you know how both the RePapers and the Leviathans told us the Mass Relays are the Reapers' creations? Yeah, we were just kidding." 

 

Wrong. The only possible reason they wouldn't be connected is because you don't want them to. 

No, there are systems everywhere that can connect to each other but aren't affected by each other. Likewise, the Relay Array of one galaxy doesn't have to be affected by the Relay Array of another. 

 

Whether they show up or not is irrelevant. One or more possible Reapers still kicking is an unacceptable quantity over the set limit, which is now zero.

I know, as shown by me saying multiple times that they never have to show up. You're the one who keeps saying they will. 

All I said was they can have it so the Reapers have gone to Andromeda, thus there are Mass Relays there. That's it. 

What part of this are you not getting?

[Patchwork]

Fair enough, it just felt incredibly jarring compared to the reception the game got on these boards on release.

 

Personally it's a had time to calm down and reassess the game thing. People are all excited, the game's been hyped up and then it's here and your playing and the game inevitably falls short of expectations. So people get mad, start posting up a storm to vent their disappointment and then time passes, they do something else and they realise that the game wasn't the worst thing to happen ever, it did in fact have some good points.  

[Golden_Persona]

It's the Zelda cycle basically.

 

For those who don't know, whenever Nintendo comes out with a Zelda game people dislike it. So Nintendo switches things up for the next installment, and people cry fowl and suddenly like the previous Zelda.

 

If the next ME game comes out and we get as much of the vocal minority of ME3 coming out of the woodwork to hate ME:N, and then start praising ME3 I will forever quit the internet for good for the sake of my own health. I should expect it, but I genuinely do feel bad for developers. It seems a game can't release in this day and age without some mass hysteria internet rage BS from people with a 12 year old mindset, stupid keyboard warrior going to forums to rage at the developers for this and that. It's happening now with the Witcher 3 because apparently the foliage doesn't look as good as promised, despite the game being quite amazing so far.

 

I mean the developers are people too, and most of them work their butts off trying to create something from their own personal vision for a game, only to have a bunch of tweeny mindset morons who probably didn't even pay for the game themselves complain on the internet.

[Torgette]

If the next ME game comes out and we get as much of the vocal minority of ME3 coming out of the woodwork to hate ME:N, and then start praising ME3 I will forever quit the internet for good for the sake of my own health. I should expect it, but I genuinely do feel bad for developers. It seems a game can't release in this day and age without some mass hysteria internet rage BS from people with a 12 year old mindset, stupid keyboard warrior going to forums to rage at the developers for this and that. It's happening now with the Witcher 3 because apparently the foliage doesn't look as good as promised, despite the game being quite amazing so far.

 

I mean the developers are people too, and most of them work their butts off trying to create something from their own personal vision for a game, only to have a bunch of tweeny mindset morons who probably didn't even pay for the game themselves complain on the internet.

 

That's sort of already happening with people saying they want to stay in the milky way and see the effects of our choices at the end - those sentiments combined with a possible move to open world style play can very easily evolve into "now that I think about it, ME3 wasn't so bad". Then a year after that people will mellow out and start liking the new game for what it is. 

 

Personally I actually liked a lot of elements in ME3 and its DLC, even the ending I liked how it's morally ambiguous even if I think it's poorly executed.

 

Brace yourselves!

[CrutchCricket]

*reads Codex about space battles* Yes, that's how it goes when Dreadnoughts are involved. And the centuries is me humoring you and your notion that the Reaper in Andromeda would know of the colonists by giving the time they nap as a cushion. Again, they never have to show up once we get there, but just have the Relays be there showing at one point they were.

I see. The Reaper sees Dreadnaughts coming and decides to fight honorably in the style of his forefathers and stands perfectly still. 

Four Dreadnaughts having the firepower to destroy a Reaper does not mean every time four Dreadnaughts fire, a Reaper dies.

And I'm the one humoring you with all this hibernation talk. Even if that meant the vanguard would be completely senseless it still doesn't account for other potential passive systems of detection (which there would surely be since the keeper sabotage and Sovereign's resulting delay proved additional security would be needed) or straight-up Reaper tools like remnant indoctrinated or Reaperized forces, which would still be around since that cycle just finished, or even a full on Collector counterpart race.
 

It's not a retcon since it was never confirmed the Reapers were the ones who controlled the Rachni. A retcon would be "Hey, you know how both the RePapers and the Leviathans told us the Mass Relays are the Reapers' creations? Yeah, we were just kidding."

No we weren't kidding, there was simply more to the story. Nothing is outright overridden. 
 

No, there are systems everywhere that can connect to each other but aren't affected by each other. Likewise, the Relay Array of one galaxy doesn't have to be affected by the Relay Array of another.

 You have yet to provide a single logical reason it wouldn't be.
 

I know, as shown by me saying multiple times that they never have to show up. You're the one who keeps saying they will. 
All I said was they can have it so the Reapers have gone to Andromeda, thus there are Mass Relays there. That's it. 
What part of this are you not getting?

What part of "we need to move away from Reapers altogether and living in their shadow is not 'away'" are you not getting?

 

If Reapers built relays are in Andromeda, logically they're linked to ours. Which means Andromeda got RGB'd just as we did. Which means moving there does nothing. And even if I grant that it didn't, a Reaper vanguard with remnant Reaper forces and/or a Collector like race still hangs over our head, once again invalidating, not only the attempt to distance ourselves from the trilogy but the trilogy itself. I'm sorry, this really isn't personal but right now you have the worst idea in this thread.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I see. The Reaper sees Dreadnaughts coming and decides to fight honorably in the style of his forefathers and stands perfectly still. 

Four Dreadnaughts having the firepower to destroy a Reaper does not mean every time four Dreadnaughts fire, a Reaper dies.

You mean like they do during the Battle of Earth at the end of Mass Effect 3. Or during the Battle of Palevan even earlier. 

 

I never said that, did I? I just said they have the capability to. 

 

And I'm the one humoring you with all this hibernation talk. Even if that meant the vanguard would be completely senseless it still doesn't account for other potential passive systems of detection (which there would surely be since the keeper sabotage and Sovereign's resulting delay proved additional security would be needed) or straight-up Reaper tools like remnant indoctrinated or Reaperized forces, which would still be around since that cycle just finished, or even a full on Collector counterpart race.

No, the fact that the races there are about as advanced as we are proves that Andromeda wouldn't have been harvested for a while. 

 

No we weren't kidding, there was simply more to the story. Nothing is outright overridden. 

Yes, it is. The Reapers being the established inventors of the Mass Relays is being overwritten by your idea that "they just took the idea from something else". That is a retcon. 

 

 You have yet to provide a single logical reason it wouldn't be.

Besides the fact that the Reapers wouldn't want the cycles galaxy jumping? The only way we would even have a shot is because the Protheans messed with the systems after the last cycle. 

 

What part of "we need to move away from Reapers altogether and living in their shadow is not 'away'" are you not getting?

We will never not live in their shadow. The Mass Effect itself is living in their shadow since they left that information behind on purpose so we would develop along the paths they desire. So unless you're suggesting we don't even use Mass Effect technology, thus literally not being a Mass Effect game, we will be living in their shadow. 

 

If Reapers built relays are in Andromeda, logically they're linked to ours. Which means Andromeda got RGB'd just as we did. Which means moving there does nothing. And even if I grant that it didn't, a Reaper vanguard with remnant Reaper forces and/or a Collector like race still hangs over our head, once again invalidating, not only the attempt to distance ourselves from the trilogy but the trilogy itself. I'm sorry, this really isn't personal but right now you have the worst idea in this thread.

No, it does not. 

If there was an accident on a freeway that shuts down all traffic on it, and there is another freeway that is connected at a single point to that freeway, does the second freeway get shut down as well? The answer is no. 

 

And again, Andromeda has clearly not been harvested for a while since there are space-faring races in it. Thus whatever Reaper remnants there are have either died off or retreated into obscurity like they do in the Milky Way. Thus, and I can't stress this enough since you seem to be purposefully ignoring it now: 

They. Do. Not. Show. Up. 

 

And if you think it's so stupid, then don't reply to it. You keep replying and belittling it sure makes it seem personal. 

[CrutchCricket]

You mean like they do during the Battle of Earth at the end of Mass Effect 3. Or during the Battle of Palevan even earlier.

I don't know what you were watching but I saw Reapers moving everywhere. Sadly not with "turns that would tear our ships in half" but that's cutscene failure for you. But I did see Reapers advancing, one "grabbing" a ship and immafirinmahlazor'ing it etc. 
 

I never said that, did I? I just said they have the capability to.

Uhm, yes you did:

You think we wouldn't have four Dreadnoughts in centuries?

Apparently if we get to at least four Dreadnaughts we win...
 

No, the fact that the races there are about as advanced as we are proves that Andromeda wouldn't have been harvested for a while.

If all the rumors are true. And it still doesn't discount additional security measures or a Collector counterpart race. 
 

Yes, it is. The Reapers being the established inventors of the Mass Relays is being overwritten by your idea that "they just took the idea from something else". That is a retcon.

The reapers are the builders of the relays. I challenged you to find stated evidence they were the sole exclusive designers. You did not deliver.
 

Besides the fact that the Reapers wouldn't want the cycles galaxy jumping? The only way we would even have a shot is because the Protheans messed with the systems after the last cycle.

 Who said anything about the cycles? The Reapers would galaxy jump. The Reapers already jump in and out of the galaxy without anyone being the wiser until the first game. What's your point?
 

We will never not live in their shadow. The Mass Effect itself is living in their shadow since they left that information behind on purpose so we would develop along the paths they desire. So unless you're suggesting we don't even use Mass Effect technology, thus literally not being a Mass Effect game, we will be living in their shadow.

Wrong. They're dead (or somehow not a threat, anymore), to the victors go the spoils. Look up what tech is in use today that was developed by the Nazis (yeah I went there). Are we living in their shadow too? 
 

No, it does not. 
If there was an accident on a freeway that shuts down all traffic on it, and there is another freeway that is connected at a single point to that freeway, does the second freeway get shut down as well? The answer is no. 
 
And again, Andromeda has clearly not been harvested for a while since there are space-faring races in it. Thus whatever Reaper remnants there are have either died off or retreated into obscurity like they do in the Milky Way. Thus, and I can't stress this enough since you seem to be purposefully ignoring it now: 
They. Do. Not. Show. Up. 
 
And if you think it's so stupid, then don't reply to it. You keep replying and belittling it sure makes it seem personal.

What freeway accident do you know that specifically propagates itself across all lanes and exists along its entire length?

And since I have an abundance of periods too:
Whether. They. Show. Up. Or. Not. Is. Irrelevant. Their. Continued. Existence. As. Harvesting. Reapers. In. Andromeda. Invalidates. The. Conclusion. Of. The. Trilogy. And. The. Move. Away. From. It.

With that being said this is proving to be a waste of time. No hard feelings, but we're done here.