545 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Guard has been the best gameplay innovation since cross class combos... I think my brain just exploded. Could not disagree more.

About which part? Guard has created a unique warrior advantage to other classes and a way to smartly cycle your cooldowns to keep the temp hit points up. Cross-class combos add a consideration to picking abilities for party synergy and promote picking different classes so we don't end up with the imbalance of Origins.

And I hated the weak blunted impact of my two handed sword. It feels like hitting the enemy with a nerf bat that does no actual damage to them. it has a blade, it should do observable damage, not just drag across on a hit without causing the enemy to flinch...

I don't mind that request, but it's certainly a problem that exists in all the Dragon Age games, Origins most of all. Thankfully the Warrior abilities look like they hurt a whole lot. Block and Slash in particular is very satisfying to use, especially near edges so an enemy falls back off the cliff.

[KaiserShep]

 it has a blade, it should do observable damage, not just drag across on a hit without causing the enemy to flinch...

 

Observable damage from blades doesn't exist in any of the games, save for the killing blows in Origins, but even then, this is only if the final hits connect, otherwise the enemy just slumps over intact.

[Saphiron123]

Observable damage from blades doesn't exist in any of the games, save for the killing blows in Origins, but even then, this is only if the final hits connect, otherwise the enemy just slumps over intact.

A lot of games deliver it more believably. Like something is being hit. Stuff staggers, limbs come off or finishing moves occur at times, and it doesn't make the dull buzzing noise that your two handed sword makes on impact in DAI.

It just feels inferior to a lot of games. I wasn't impressed. It'd be easy to overlook if they had tactics, more realistic and visceral skills for warriors and rogues and more magical options for mages, but they don't.

Just my opinion, but the combat in this, and the ai they replaced tactics with, is pretty weak. They threw away a lot of great stuff and it makes no sense. Suddenly mages don't know how to heal and warriors can split the earth and make 10 fire bursts appear in the ground. Templars are useless because nothing you fight has mana and exist only for one combo and moderate barrier damage.

It's like the guys who designed the combat paid zero attention to what has worked in the past, and decided stuff like tactics was too complicated for us to handle.

[Rawgrim]

Awakening introduced teleporting rogues with flicker. And then there's the previously mentioned animal summon. The best part is that it uses the same animation a mage does when charging up an ability like Tempest.

 

I know. Those bits were lame. Awakening introduced a lot of crap, really. That being said, they were abilities that stood out as bad. In DA:I its pretty much every damn ability that is over the top.

[Rawgrim]

Maybe for the same reason I did not just run through Origins using no thought and just a few spells and such; It was more fun the other way.

 

You needed to use your abilities in Origins. In DA:I you need the Barrier spell an button mashing. Nothing else.

[Rawgrim]

Because some people prefer that way?

I can play Origins without touching the tactics cam at all, consoles didn't even have it in Origins

 

Yes. But you can't button mash through Origins on Nightmare.

[Rawgrim]

You are obsessed with this, but (1) that doesn't work on nightmare unless you have multiple mages casting barrier because of the cooldown time and (2) at that point you might as well just say that DA:O is equally a joke with 3 mages overlapping fireball, because that's how I facerolled DA:O on nightmare pre first patch nerf. 

 

Not obsessed with it. But in a thread where the topic is the Combat of DA:I, it is bound to be brought up.

 

Yes you can button mash through the game on nightmare with just 1 mage. Do a quick search on youtube and you can find plenty evidence of it.

 

How did you manage to deal with the High Dragon using just fireballs? It is very much resistant to them. And how did you deal with enemies using overwhelm on your party? Still your example does require some tactical thought, if only just a little. Rolling your face across a controller doesn't.

[Elhanan]

A lot of games deliver it more believably. Like something is being hit. Stuff staggers, limbs come off or finishing moves occur at times, and it doesn't make the dull buzzing noise that your two handed sword makes on impact in DAI.

It just feels inferior to a lot of games. I wasn't impressed. It'd be easy to overlook if they had tactics, more realistic and visceral skills for warriors and rogues and more magical options for mages, but they don't.

Just my opinion, but the combat in this, and the ai they replaced tactics with, is pretty weak. They threw away a lot of great stuff and it makes no sense. Suddenly mages don't know how to heal and warriors can split the earth and make 10 fire bursts appear in the ground. Templars are useless because nothing you fight has mana and exist only for one combo and moderate barrier damage.

It's like the guys who designed the combat paid zero attention to what has worked in the past, and decided stuff like tactics was too complicated for us to handle.

And opinions and feelings are completely valid for purposes of a review, but that still does not make them factual; mine included. And if one does not care for an ability, skip it. Personally, I still have not chosen the Earthshaking Strike or various throwing chain abilities. Still like the game for the options presented, the content that remains, and being able to tailor much of what I experience.

[Rawgrim]

About which part? Guard has created a unique warrior advantage to other classes and a way to smartly cycle your cooldowns to keep the temp hit points up. Cross-class combos add a consideration to picking abilities for party synergy and promote picking different classes so we don't end up with the imbalance of Origins.


I don't mind that request, but it's certainly a problem that exists in all the Dragon Age games, Origins most of all. Thankfully the Warrior abilities look like they hurt a whole lot. Block and Slash in particular is very satisfying to use, especially near edges so an enemy falls back off the cliff.

 

Guard makes zero sense at all. What is it exactly? How does it work? It is basically just a barrier for warriors that they seem to be able to produce via magic.

 

Imbalanced classes is no real issue in a singe player rpg, anyway. And in most games the magic users are always more powerful than the non-magic ones, at least at a higher level. Which makes sense. A nuke does more damage than a sword.

[The Baconer]

Yes you can button mash through the game on nightmare with just 1 mage. Do a quick search on youtube and you can find plenty evidence of it.

 

Without context, it would be genuinely impossible to know which game you're referring to here.

 

Well, not impossible, because DA:O would be the more likely candidate, where mages are probably the easiest to solo with.

[Rawgrim]

Without context, it would be genuinely impossible to know which game you're referring to here.

 

Well, not impossible, because DA:O would be the more likely candidate, where mages are probably the easiest to solo with.

 

Really? The fact that DA:O never had an attack button didn't tip you off? It was auto attack from the get-go there.

 

How did you manage to solo the game with a mage, when you ran into enemies that used overwhelm on you?

[Elhanan]

Guard makes zero sense at all. What is it exactly? How does it work? It is basically just a barrier for warriors that they seem to be able to produce via magic.
 
Imbalanced classes is no real issue in a singe player rpg, anyway. And in most games the magic users are always more powerful than the non-magic ones, at least at a higher level. Which makes sense. A nuke does more damage than a sword.

If Guard is viewed as an actual barrier, then that would be silly, unless one is an X-Man, of course. But if viewed as the experience, training, and ability of a Warrior to withstand extra damage, then this simulation of combat skill seems to make a much better explanation; one that is replicated via Enchantment for items.

Mechanically, it gives some use for the Threat abilities which I personally loathe, and have skipped until DAI, so that is a literal plus for me. I like Guard, but dislike threat and other MMO trinity mechanics.

[Rawgrim]

If Guard is viewed as an actual barrier, then that would be silly, unless one is an X-Man, of course. But if viewed as the experience, training, and ability of a Warrior to withstand extra damage, then this simulation of combat skill seems to make a much better explanation; one that is replicated via Enchantment for items.

Mechanically, it gives some use for the Threat abilities which I personally loathe, and have skipped until DAI, so that is a literal plus for me. I like Guard, but dislike threat and other MMO trinity mechanics.

 

It seems to just be a "Let the enemies hit me" kind of thing. It is very unclear in any case. The game says what it grants the character, but nobody bothered to explain how it actually works.

[The Baconer]

How did you manage to solo the game with a mage, when you ran into enemies that used overwhelm on you?

 

Burden of knowledge.

 

Until you get suitably roided up on Arcane Warrior, then it doesn't matter.

[Rawgrim]

Burden of knowledge.

 

Until you get suitably roided up on Arcane Warrior, then it doesn't matter.

 

That means you had to make a tactical choice and pick a spec class. Which you don't gain access to right away. And most likely you don't know about it the first time you played it either. Beating a game you have played plenty of times before, like that, doesn't really count. The playthrough would be riddled with metagaming.

[The Baconer]

That means you had to make a tactical choice and pick a spec class. Which you don't gain access to right away. And most likely you don't know about it the first time you played it either. Beating a game you have played plenty of times before, like that, doesn't really count. The playthrough would be riddled with metagaming.

 

Yeah, that's kind of what solo playthroughs on party-based RPGs are all about.

 

Wait, are you actually operating on the belief that someone will solo nightmare on DA:I without metagaming?

[CronoDragoon]

Guard makes zero sense at all. What is it exactly? How does it work? It is basically just a barrier for warriors that they seem to be able to produce via magic.

Imbalanced classes is no real issue in a singe player rpg, anyway. And in most games the magic users are always more powerful than the non-magic ones, at least at a higher level. Which makes sense. A nuke does more damage than a sword.

Guard is an abstraction, just like all combat measurements are an abstraction. Unless you think warriors actually have more hit points than rogues or, alternatively, if you actually think hit points are some tangible thing.

If you don't care about balance, then you don't care about depth.

[Rawgrim]

Yeah, that's kind of what solo playthroughs on party-based RPGs are all about.

 

Wait, are you actually operating on the belief that someone will solo nightmare on DA:I without metagaming?

 

I never said anybody soloed the game. I said a lot of people beat the game on the first try, using button mashing and Barrier. Nothing else. And I said that because I saw plenty vids of it being posted on youtube.

[Abraham_uk]

That's fine and all, but I think many want something like this to make a comeback

 

The animations look awesome. Flashy over the top and ineffective.

However they do look incredible.

 

I would like to see more smaller movements.

I've been doing fencing and I've been told off for making my movements too grand (they're not even half as grand as in that video).

 

I'm fine with Dragon Age going for big over the top animations.

However I would like to play at least one game that tries to go for realism.

 

 

By realism I mean:

 

• Smaller movements that focus on finesse and precision.
• Never leaving one's guard wide open (obviously you're going to leave yourself a little bit open with every attack).
• Effective blocking, parrying and riposting.
• Actual medieval combat techniques
• Having a system where forward planning, anticipation and studying enemy attacks matters

So let Dragon Age do it's own thing. However if there is a game that tries to go for realism please let me know.

 

 

Also, I really enjoyed Skyward Sword since it had some semblance of realistic combat.

I actually had to study my opponents movements.

I had to think about cutting and thrusting.

I had to think about blocking in time.

I had to think about when and where to strike.

This is kind of what I'm looking for. The game isn't terribly difficult combat wise, so you can have semblance of realism without ruining the game's fun factor.

[KaiserShep]

Not obsessed with it. But in a thread where the topic is the Combat of DA:I, it is bound to be brought up.

 

Yes you can button mash through the game on nightmare with just 1 mage. Do a quick search on youtube and you can find plenty evidence of it.

 

A quick search only reveals tons of 4-44 minute videos of dubious relevance. But I have to call shenanigans on the claim that anyone beat the entire game on Nightmare using only basic attacks.

[Rawgrim]

Guard is an abstraction, just like all combat measurements are an abstraction. Unless you think warriors actually have more hit points than rogues or, alternatively, if you actually think hit points are some tangible thing.

If you don't care about balance, then you don't care about depth.

 

Uhm...the depth of the setting kind of carries my argument there. Mages ARE more powerful than rogues and warriors. The game spells it out to us. Mages gets stuffed into Mage's Circles etc. That bit goes out the window when the game shows us that everyone else can use magic too, and are just as powerful as a mage. Makes the Circles rather pointless.

[CronoDragoon]

The old school bushido blades were pretty good with that. Actual stances, getting cut was deadly, if you got hit in the leg you were disabled, a hit to the chest or head was an instant KO.

[CronoDragoon]

Uhm...the depth of the setting kind of carries my argument there. Mages ARE more powerful than rogues and warriors. The game spells it out to us. Mages gets stuffed into Mage's Circles etc. That bit goes out the window when the game shows us that everyone else can use magic too, and are just as powerful as a mage. Makes the Circles rather pointless.

So you don't really care about combat depth. Fair enough.

How do you explain leliana's bard songs in origins if rogues "can't use magic"?

[Rawgrim]

I didn't say anything about mages. I was talking about hit points. Are hit points an actual thing in dragon age lore?

 

Nope. It is a number that gives us a pointer about the character's health. It s also something that is explained. As are the attack bonuses and your defence. The Guard has no explanation given. It is just there, and for no apparant explainable reason.

[KaiserShep]

Mages, or at least mage allies, are still the most powerful combatants in this game, because they can more easily control the battlefield, and inflict a great deal of damage to multiple targets simultaneously. Rogues have always been able to inflict the most damage to single targets.