258 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

 

This is not correct, the Architect is a liar his true purpose was not to help his kind by transforming the Dragon into a disciple but was rather to try to save one of his precious pet, the one that he use to worship.

I killed him and killed his pet forever and without remorse Urthemiel can sing his song into the Oblivion alongside his brothers from now on,it seems that there is another one in the western approach,i will take care of him.

 

Or the transformation into a darkspawn warped his mind and memories.

[leaguer of one]

I disagree with this one. Dialogue kinda hints that he's not as old as the first blight, he doesn't even remember that far back. I don't think he's the only other smart darkspawn in history, he doesn't need to be the one. And why would he? Dumb as he is, I think he would have changed tactics by the 3rd or 4th failure of trying the same thing over and over.

Nothing says counters the point he is that old. Note that the taint could of warped his mind so much that his memories of that time is gone.

[myahele]

Also, who's to say that he cause the other blights? Perhaps he just cause the 5th?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm not saying that it's necessarily wrong to say he's a darkspawn; I just don't think DG meant he's a darkspawn by his comment. 

 

Well I'm not even really familiar with whatever Gaider said about the situation. But sice somebody suggested he could have meant it in a very general sense, I figured unless we get clarification, "a unique and intelligent darkspawn" could just as easily fit as context as "ancient Tevinter Magister."

[In Exile]

Well I'm not even really familiar with whatever Gaider said about the situation. But sice somebody suggested he could have meant it in a very general sense, I figured unless we get clarification, "a unique and intelligent darkspawn" could just as easily fit as context as "ancient Tevinter Magister."

 

No, it can't. Because then we have to assume that Corypheus is "a unique and intelligent darkspawn". But he's not in any meaningful sense of that term. This is the same debate over Corypheus dying in DA2 all over again. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

You just admitted he's a darkspawn. He's also unique and intelligent. 

[Ajna]

I had to check to see if the previous poster was named Jedi Master of Orion or Onion....my curiosity is sated, a little disappointed.. (Phone = small font..Sorry)

[myahele]

Spoiler

wot2 spoilers

[Robert Trevelyan]

If he does turn out to be a Tevinter Magister, I'll still believe either it was an idea that they came up with after the fact and retconed the original idea or they didn't bother to make the story seem consistent given that his personality, powers and relationship to the darkspawn seem totally different from Corypheus.

 

 

I completely agree. It will be a retcon. The two are very different. And there is very little in The Calling that marks The Architect out as being deliberately a Magister. He certainly doesn't recall ever having been one.

[Heimdall]

I completely agree. It will be a retcon. The two are very different. And there is very little in The Calling that marks The Architect out as being deliberately a Magister. He certainly doesn't recall ever having been one.

Yeah, but he was also described very differently in the Calling too.  I think the retcon happened before Awakening.

 

There is a codex out there that indicates the darkspawn magisters were losing their memories after whatever happened to them in the Fade.  Cory's 1000 year sleep may make him the exception.

[Urzon]

Yeah, but he was also described very differently in the Calling too.  I think the retcon happened before Awakening.

Probably this.
 

There is a codex out there that indicates the darkspawn magisters were losing their memories after whatever happened to them in the Fade.  Cory's 1000 year sleep may make him the exception.

Most likely. Any of the Tevinter Magisters that weren't killed or captured have been wondering around in the Deep Roads for nearly 1300 years(?). Unless their magic or the Taint enhanced their brain, I would imagine that walking around in near darkness for that many years, with only the mindless Darkspawn for company, would sap anyone's sanity and memories after the first hundred years or so.

[Panda]

I completely agree. It will be a retcon. The two are very different. And there is very little in The Calling that marks The Architect out as being deliberately a Magister. He certainly doesn't recall ever having been one.

 

I don't see it as retcon at all, since Architect's past wasn't revealed in the Calling and him being ancient magisters would fit well seeing how darkspawn became to be after magisters corrupted Golden City. Him having amnesia just enforces the idea of him being ancient magister. So even if Gaider didn't think Architect was magisters when writing the Calling (though we don't know if he did or did not), it wouldn't be retcon, it would just be different route they can take character to, since I doubt any writer hasn't change their plans, stories and characters during writing process and thought out better ideas where their stories can go.

[Ariella]

The biggest thing for me is in the name. The Architect. That doesn't speak to an individual personality. All the intelligent darkspawn in Awakening are like this: the First, the Mother, the Lost.

Corypheus, however, is a person in a way the darkspawn of Awakening aren't. And yes, I am aware of what Corypheus means in Greek. Every name has meaning, but the Awakening names are more like naming under the Qun, job titles.

Change is the basic theme of Dragon Age. Change and the fear of it. It seems more fitting to me that even the darkspawn can change, become more, rather than yet another Magister running around.

[In Exile]

The biggest thing for me is in the name. The Architect. That doesn't speak to an individual personality. All the intelligent darkspawn in Awakening are like this: the First, the Mother, the Lost.

Corypheus, however, is a person in a way the darkspawn of Awakening aren't. And yes, I am aware of what Corypheus means in Greek. Every name has meaning, but the Awakening names are more like naming under the Qun, job titles.

Change is the basic theme of Dragon Age. Change and the fear of it. It seems more fitting to me that even the darkspawn can change, become more, rather than yet another Magister running around.

 

There was probably a retcon, but that was their decision to move away from the HOF as a serial protagonist. I mean, c'mon, you can just see all the suspiciously similar replacements. Corypheus is just a sub for the Architect, who was probably going to play the same plot role as Corypheus with the HOF as Inquisitor. 

[Shechinah]

The Architect does say in "Awakening" that he does not know why he is different from other darkspawn and I think part of his motivation in making them aware is not just to prevent the Blights but also so he won't be so different or alone anymore. He seems to have no recollection of where he came from and seemed to assume he was a darkspawn because of where he was and how he looked. From his tone and dialogue, I believe he genuinely cannot remember anything from his time as a Magister - it may even be that whatever happened during or after the experience was so traumatising he supressed it.

[xPez]

The biggest thing for me is in the name. The Architect. That doesn't speak to an individual personality. All the intelligent darkspawn in Awakening are like this: the First, the Mother, the Lost.

Corypheus, however, is a person in a way the darkspawn of Awakening aren't. And yes, I am aware of what Corypheus means in Greek. Every name has meaning, but the Awakening names are more like naming under the Qun, job titles.

Change is the basic theme of Dragon Age. Change and the fear of it. It seems more fitting to me that even the darkspawn can change, become more, rather than yet another Magister running around.

 

Maybe Corypheus is the higher form of whatever they speak in Tevinter, and Conductor is the lower version of it, like Classical Latin and Vulgar Latin, so Architect would be one version of his name but the higher version would be along the same lines as Corypheus.

 

 

I haven't read The Calling so I can't comment on whether the Architect was always a Magister or is actually a retcon, but there is a lot in WoT that hints at him being a Magister. Hell most of it you can't even call a hint, it's pretty blatant I think.

[Ariella]

There was probably a retcon, but that was their decision to move away from the HOF as a serial protagonist. I mean, c'mon, you can just see all the suspiciously similar replacements. Corypheus is just a sub for the Architect, who was probably going to play the same plot role as Corypheus with the HOF as Inquisitor.

I don't see that at all. The Architect actually gave a damn about saving the darkspawn from what they were. Corypheus doesn't even see himself as one. He has no identification with them the way the Architect did. And considering that the HoF had the option to die at the end of DAO, I don't see where one could consider him/her a potential serial protagonist.

And yes it's different than ME 2, since DAO is a willing sacrifice, and ME 2 is based on how well you chose to prepare.

[littlebrightpanda]

The big difference some can see between the Architect and Corypheus (and the other Magisters down in the Deep Roads) is that Corypheus was captured very early after the transformation and has been sleeping for 1000 years. The Architect and the rest have probably been awake for that long.

 

There's no real life example of this, but I bet anybody's memory would severely decline over a thousand years, no matter with whom they have contact. 

 

The fact that the Architect is conducting experiments, which was most likely his job during the ritual that brought the magister to the Black City in the first place, and probably also his job during his lifetime as a magister, leads to the conclusion that the changed magisters retain some element of their job or personality. Maybe it's their defining characteristic. 

 

Corypheus wasn't affected from the memory decline, but even he has a defining characteristic. Conducting rituals and leading people somewhere. He did that twice now. It might be a side effect of being turned into a darkspawn and the effect becomes more pronounced with time. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There was probably a retcon, but that was their decision to move away from the HOF as a serial protagonist. I mean, c'mon, you can just see all the suspiciously similar replacements. Corypheus is just a sub for the Architect, who was probably going to play the same plot role as Corypheus with the HOF as Inquisitor. 

 

The Architect's personality and motives are completely different than Corypheus'.

 

Was keeping the Hero of Ferelden as a serial protagonist ever a plan for Bioware? He or she can die in his first game.

[Heimdall]

The big difference some can see between the Architect and Corypheus (and the other Magisters down in the Deep Roads) is that Corypheus was captured very early after the transformation and has been sleeping for 1000 years. The Architect and the rest have probably been awake for that long.

There's no real life example of this, but I bet anybody's memory would severely decline over a thousand years, no matter with whom they have contact.

The fact that the Architect is conducting experiments, which was most likely his job during the ritual that brought the magister to the Black City in the first place, and probably also his job during his lifetime as a magister, leads to the conclusion that the changed magisters retain some element of their job or personality. Maybe it's their defining characteristic.

Corypheus wasn't affected from the memory decline, but even he has a defining characteristic. Conducting rituals and leading people somewhere. He did that twice now. It might be a side effect of being turned into a darkspawn and the effect becomes more pronounced with time.

Actually, Cole indicates that Cory's memory of what happened during the ritual 1000 years ago is chaotic and unclear. I think that whatever happened affected all of their memories, degrading them over time. Cory's nap essentially made him and whatever process that was affecting him go dormant so he avoided it.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Actually Corypheus would have already been over 200 years old by the time the Grey Wardens imprisoned him. 

[Ariella]

To paraphrase from the two women at Skyhold talking about Fairbanks:

Conduction rituals and leading people is so vague as to be meaningless.

Maybe Corypheus is the higher form of whatever they speak in Tevinter, and Conductor is the lower version of it, like Classical Latin and Vulgar Latin, so Architect would be one version of his name but the higher version would be along the same lines as Corypheus.

I addressed this already. Yes, all names have meaning. Ariella, for example means lioness of God. But it's a very different from actually being called lioness of God as a name. Add to that it's not Architect but THE Architect, just as it's the Mother etc. A thing or title rather than a person.

Vague hints mean little and I saw nothing along the lines of a Chekov's gun in Awakening as we did at the end of Legacy with Corypheus first death.

If it does turn out, I'm going to be damn disappointed, because the potential for them to turn into a monster of the week goes up 1000%.

[xPez]

To paraphrase from the two women at Skyhold talking about Fairbanks:

Conduction rituals and leading people is so vague as to be meaningless.


I addressed this already. Yes, all names have meaning. Ariella, for example means lioness of God. But it's a very different from actually being called lioness of God as a name. Add to that it's not Architect but THE Architect, just as it's the Mother etc. A thing or title rather than a person.

Vague hints mean little and I saw nothing along the lines of a Chekov's gun in Awakening as we did at the end of Legacy with Corypheus first death.

If it does turn out, I'm going to be damn disappointed, because the potential for them to turn into a monster of the week goes up 1000%.

 

We clearly have very different definitions of "vague hints"                          

 

The Canticle of Silence states that the High Priest of Urthemiel was known as the Architect, the picture that myahele posted above is of the Architect and it states "... may have played a role in the corruption of the Golden City". Also, it is the Architect that wakes/corrupts Urthemiel, and after you encounter him in DA:A you find the gear Vestments of Urthemiel.

[ModernAcademic]

oh for f***s sake can't you people just accept the fact that he's one of the original seven and drop it?!?!

 

Can't you accept people are forcing the acceptance of a fan hypothesis based on a distorted inerpretation of a vague statement issued by Gaider plus lack of clear evidence?