258 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

We clearly have very different definitions of "vague hints"

The Canticle of Silence states that the High Priest of Urthemiel was known as the Architect, the picture that myahele posted above is of the Architect and it states "... may have played a role in the corruption of the Golden City". Also, it is the Architect that wakes/corrupts Urthemiel, and after you encounter him in DA:A you find the gear Vestments of Urthemiel.

Where in the Canticle? Here is the only Chant verse that shows up:
http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts

I never received the vestments and the picture doesn't really say much either. Give me something a heck of a lot more direct than a single picture.

Also give me more than a loot piece that isn't found ON him and can be found as random on a completely different quest.

Modifié par Ariella, 16 mai 2015 - 08:40 .

[Panda]

Architect doesn't know that he's ancient magister, thinks his darkspawn and has based his life and goals around that hundreds of years. Corypheus has slept most of time, knows he's ancient magister and his goals are based around Tevinter.. and the past where he wants to return, glory days of Empire. Architect in other hand is looking forward into future of darkspawn. I think they can be this different even if  they are similar beings, ancient magisters who have became darkspawns, because Architect has based his life around darkspawn and identifies with them when Cory remembers the past and has only lived in the past so he has based his life around Tevinter and what happened when Golden City got corrupted.

[In Exile]

The Architect's personality and motives are completely different than Corypheus'.

Was keeping the Hero of Ferelden as a serial protagonist ever a plan for Bioware? He or she can die in his first game.

I don't think Bioware had any plan for a save import until ME took off. More to the point Corypheus has an insane megalomaniac plan about becoming a god. The Architect has an insane genocidal plan about helping the darkspawn. That's not really different.

[In Exile]

I don't see that at all. The Architect actually gave a damn about saving the darkspawn from what they were. Corypheus doesn't even see himself as one. He has no identification with them the way the Architect did. And considering that the HoF had the option to die at the end of DAO, I don't see where one could consider him/her a potential serial protagonist.

And yes it's different than ME 2, since DAO is a willing sacrifice, and ME 2 is based on how well you chose to prepare.

Again - save import wasn't always a think. Bioware previously used a set canon in their last sequel (BG2). More to the point it doesn't matter that the Architect is a darkspawn supremacist instead of a Tevinter one. That's not proof he isn't a magister.

[xPez]

Where in the Canticle? Here is the only Chant verse that shows up:
http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts

I never received the vestments and the picture doesn't really say much either. Give me something a heck of a lot more direct than a single picture.

Also give me more than a loot piece that isn't found ON him and can be found as random on a completely different quest.

 

More of the Canticle of Silence is in WoT2. I'm sure I've read the whole thing somewhere on these forums, but I can only find the below parts from another thread, that thread being http://forum.bioware...-silence/page-1 Credit to X Equestris for posting it.

 

(9)The High Priest of Beauty, Architect of the Works of Beauty, designed
Every work and wonder of the Imperium according to the plans of his god.
To him, the Conductor went in secret, armed
With the whisper of Silence.

(10)But the High Priest of Beauty was sorely troubled,
For he served only the Great Plans
And would in no wise raise a servant of Silence
Above himself or his god.

(11)And yet, the fire in the Conductor's heart ignited
Within the Architect a terrible flame.
And so he turned all the lesser priests and acolytes from the Temple of Beauty
To beseech counsel from his god.          

 

That's the main part regarding the Architect. The bit below is more about the rest of the Magisters.

 

(14)but the designs of Beauty's High Priest demanded more.
No small sacrifice would open the gate.
And so, the High Priest of Silence went forth again.
To the Watchman of Night, and the Forgewright of Fire,
To the Appraiser of Slavery and the Augur of Mystery,
And last of all, the Madman of Chaos
The words of Silence were revealed.          

 

Maybe someone who has WoT2 can post more of it?

[In Exile]

From the canticles we have their roles:

Corypheus was the Conductor - the impetus behind the first breach of the Fade.

The Architect was the designer of the ritual (see " but the designs of Beauty's High Priest demanded more..."), hence his title.

It'll be interesting when we meet the other 5.

[Ariella]

Again - save import wasn't always a think. Bioware previously used a set canon in their last sequel (BG2). More to the point it doesn't matter that the Architect is a darkspawn supremacist instead of a Tevinter one. That's not proof he isn't a magister.

Show me where they said this. And neither BG or NWN were ip of Bioware.

And again, show me IN GAME where it says in the Chant these things?

[Ariella]

More of the Canticle of Silence is in WoT2. I'm sure I've read the whole thing somewhere on these forums, but I can only find the below parts from another thread, that thread being http://forum.bioware...-silence/page-1 Credit to X Equestris for posting it.

 

(9)The High Priest of Beauty, Architect of the Works of Beauty, designed
Every work and wonder of the Imperium according to the plans of his god.
To him, the Conductor went in secret, armed
With the whisper of Silence.

(10)But the High Priest of Beauty was sorely troubled,
For he served only the Great Plans
And would in no wise raise a servant of Silence
Above himself or his god.

(11)And yet, the fire in the Conductor's heart ignited
Within the Architect a terrible flame.
And so he turned all the lesser priests and acolytes from the Temple of Beauty
To beseech counsel from his god.          

 

That's the main part regarding the Architect. The bit below is more about the rest of the Magisters.

 

(14)but the designs of Beauty's High Priest demanded more.
No small sacrifice would open the gate.
And so, the High Priest of Silence went forth again.
To the Watchman of Night, and the Forgewright of Fire,
To the Appraiser of Slavery and the Augur of Mystery,
And last of all, the Madman of Chaos
The words of Silence were revealed.          

 

Maybe someone who has WoT2 can post more of it?

 

If this is the case, I'm calling crappy writing on the part of Bioware. You don't put major plot points in adjacent material and not make them clear within the game itself. You write for the people who are going to buy the game, not the people who are going to buy the game +.

 

Give me something WITHIN the games.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think Bioware had any plan for a save import until ME took off. More to the point Corypheus has an insane megalomaniac plan about becoming a god. The Architect has an insane genocidal plan about helping the darkspawn. That's not really different.

 

Sure they are. Corypheus is all about amassing power for himself (and Tevinter) and ruling the world. The Architect is all about helping his people (the darkspawn) and he doesn't want to rule at all. His plan is also about ending conflict with non darkspawn by any means necessary. Furthermore, the genocidal aspirations on his part are completely absent from the games and appear only in the EU. And from what I understand, they are a side effect of his goal rather than the main intent like they are with Corypheus's plan. 

 

Didn't they need to build importing functionality into the games in advance in order for there to be any ability to import at all? By the time the Architect appeared in the games he was already in a story that could exist with the Warden dead.

[Drasanil]

Wait, I'm confused, how does the fact that the Arhcitect and Corypheus have different personalities constitute proof that they are not both ancient magisters?

 

That's like saying Dorian and Vivienne have totally different personalities so they obviously both can't be mages! 

[JadeDragon]

It seems The Architect can be wearing a I Love Tevinter Shirt and it seems people still wont believe he is a magister

[In Exile]

It seems The Architect can be wearing a I Love Tevinter Shirt and it seems people still wont believe he is a magister

I mean, the Vestments of Urthemiel were pretty much just that thing. So...

[Jedi Master of Orion]

At this point I'm inclined to believe he more than likley is a magister. I just think if that is the case, the way they introduced both him and Corypheus results in too many holes.

[Rocknife]

First of all, for those who say that Architect is a darkspawn: I wish to ask a simple question, what is a darkspawn? Answer is as simple as the question; a tainted Human/Elf/Dwarf/Qunari. What are the beings that are called "the original darkspawns"? The Magisters who went to the Black City. Another Fact, regular "darkspawns" as we know (Hurlocks/Genlocks/Ogres etc) are mindless and soulles beings. A darkspawn cannot develop a mind/counsciousness/awareness on its own. Darkspawns Anders burn in the beginning of DAO Awakening were Templars a while ago. In the same sense, Corypheus and Architect are darkspawns that once were humans, Tevinter Magister to be more specific.

 

There are only two possiblities about the Architect: Architect is either an Ancient Tevinter Magister or the Ancient Tevinter Archon. If he is an Ancient Tevinter Magister, then he is High Priest of Urthemiel. If he is the Ancient Tevinter Archon, then he may Archon Thalsian. Who is Archon Thalsian? Archon Thalsian is the "First Priest of Dumat" (as Archons usually were) and the first person to wield blood magic. He learnt the art after personally communicating with Dumat.

 

Things we know about the Architect; he lies a lot and deceives others to make them work for him. Some Grey Wardens like Utha, for example. He even deceives Maric, Duncan, Fiona and Remille. He says that he wants to free the darkspawn and he uses only the dead Wardens' blood for that but Warden-Commander encounters a barely alive Grey Warden in the Architect's lair that was captured by the Architect's darkspawns. So we know that his intention is not about protecting or freeing darkspawn. If Warden spares the Architect, the Mother tells Warden that the Architect was the one who started the Fifth Blight in a failed attempt at making Old God Urthemiel his disciple. And if you think he is just a darkspawn emissary just because he said so, you have no idea about the things he told to Maric and Duncan. He is just too smart to reveal his true identity to a "Grey Warden Commander". "Hey, Warden! You seem like a tough guy, so let me tell you that I'm actually one of the Ancient Tevinter Magisters so basically I'm one of the reasons your life is f***ed. Actually I alone am the reason your life is f***ed since I raised Old God Urthemiel as the Archdemon. So, let us be friends and kill this broodmother for me will ya?" A Grey Warden's reaction to that would definitely be so friendly, so positive I'm sure.

 

We know other things about him as well; like he knew the location of Ancient Prison of Old Gods. He also knows a great deal about Blight and taint, Old Gods and blood magic. So well that he can invent his own version of Joining to create his own darkspawn army and even attempts to make a true Old God his disciple. It took more than a hundred years for Sentiels to invent Joining. He can cast very powerful spells (like raining fire upon his enemies. Andraste's battles against Tevinter was the last time such magic was seen/mentioned) and strangely he doesn't need red lyrium for that. Another strange thing is he seems to be able to tame/control dragons and even golems. Warden fights a dragon and a modified golem in Architect's Lair. It seems like he can send a person to the Fade even without needing something like Corypheus' Orb or Inquisitor's Anchor because one of the darkspawns sends Warden to the Fade using a strange device/tool in Awakening. Right before the part where Warden saves 'Justice' from the Fade. This reminds me of the saying "Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack". He was sent to the Fade and came back after saving Justice and commanded him around as if it was a new warden recruit. Badass.

 

In fact his personality is quite similar to Flemeth's personality. Deceiving others to make them work for them. Trying to avoid fighting the Warden and taking precautions about that so they don't die (Flemeth tricked Hawke into revive her with the amulet she gave to Hawke and Architect had Utha near him so he could possess her body if he was slain), know a lot about Blight, Old Gods and blood magic and saving/capturing important heroes like Maric and Warden. An odd coincidence.

[In Exile]

Darkspawn aren't tainted humans, elves, qunari or dwarves. Tainted species are ghouls. Tainted women become brood mothers, who birth darkspawn. Whatever Corypheus and the Architect are the process by which they were changed in the Black City is wholly different from what happens in the usual case and what will happen to GWs.

[Kantr]

Show me where they said this. And neither BG or NWN were ip of Bioware.

And again, show me IN GAME where it says in the Chant these things?

This is stuff revealed in the book. Nothing in game says it as the canticle of silence is not a codex entry or sung.

[Gold Dragon]

The Games are also not the "be all end all" of the DA lore, either.

 

WoT is a compilation of WHAT is KNOWN of Thedas.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Games are also not the "be all end all" of the DA lore, either.

 

WoT is a compilation of WHAT is KNOWN of Thedas.

 

Shouldn't they be? World of Thedas and the books are supplementary material to a video game franchise. I still don't know who is supposed to be right now that Dorian has contradicted WoT regarding the Black Divine. 

[VelvetV]

Well and amusingly said! Is there any link to this interview, though?

[Deztyn]

If this is the case, I'm calling crappy writing on the part of Bioware. You don't put major plot points in adjacent material and not make them clear within the game itself. You write for the people who are going to buy the game, not the people who are going to buy the game +.

Give me something WITHIN the games.

People aren't paying good money for a book about all the things they already know from playing the games. They are paying for new content that adds to their understanding of the world the games are set in. So if some others miss interesting new details about the setting because they don't want to read the books, that's not because Bioware is a crappy company with crappy writing, anymore than they are a crappy company with crappy writing because some missed out on details about Corypheus when they didn't buy Legacy.

Or DA2.

Or even Origins.

The Games are also not the "be all end all" of the DA lore, either.

WoT is a compilation of WHAT is KNOWN of Thedas.

Exactly.

The World of Thedas books are written from an inuniverse perspective. They are basically all big codex entries. So while there's a lot of new information in there for fans, there aren't any world shattering revelations about things no one in Thedas knows about, just a lot of fuel for speculation.

Shouldn't they be? World of Thedas and the books are supplementary material to a video game franchise. I still don't know who is supposed to be right now that Dorian has contradicted WoT regarding the Black Divine.

They add to our understanding of the lore, but they don't replace it. If anything is added in them that is absolutely vital to understanding future DLC or the next game the writers will undoubtedly give that information to players in game when it's needed.

And personally, I think if there are any discrepancies between what is presented in game and what's in the books, the games should be considered a primary source and supersede the other materials unless WoG says otherwise or there's a compelling reason to believe the supplements are meant to be a corrected version.

[Robert Trevelyan]

It seems The Architect can be wearing a I Love Tevinter Shirt and it seems people still wont believe he is a magister

 

 

I'm not sure that's really the issue, any more. I don't think there's much doubt that The Architect is now intended to be a magister, as the franchise moves forwards.

 

The debate remains that the character from The Calling, and who appeared in Awakening, was not originally intended to *be* a magister. But something else.

[Robert Trevelyan]

My other half is still reading through WoT2. It'll be a while until I get to nab her copy.

 

So the Architect makes One.

 

The Conductor (Corypheus) makes Two.

 

Do we have any reference to the other Magisters?

[In Exile]

I'm not sure that's really the issue, any more. I don't think there's much doubt that The Architect is now intended to be a magister, as the franchise moves forwards.

The debate remains that the character from The Calling, and who appeared in Awakening, was not originally intended to *be* a magister. But something else.

There should be zero doubt he was a magister. I've been arguing he wasn't an awakened darkspawn since DAA came out. Absolutely everything about who he was fundamentally differed both from the regular darkspawn and the awakened abominations he created.

[Todrazok]

My other half is still reading through WoT2. It'll be a while until I get to nab her copy.

 

So the Architect makes One.

 

The Conductor (Corypheus) makes Two.

 

Do we have any reference to the other Magisters?

The Canticle gives us the titles of all the ancient high priests. 

 

Conductor of the Choir of Silence (Corypheus, High Priest of Dumat)

Architect of the Works of Beauty (The Architect, High Priest of Urthemiel)

Watchman of the Night (High Priest of Lusacan)

Forgewright of Fire (High Priest of Toth)

Appraiser of Slavery (High Priest of Andoral)

Augur of Mystery (High Priest of Razikale)

Madman of Chaos (High Priest of Zazikiel)

 

Augur of Mystery in particular comes off as interesting to me, as the Jaws of Hakkon DLC had codexes about Razikale, and "Augur" is a title still used by the Avvar aswell.