258 réponses à ce sujet

[littlebrightpanda]

Couldn't it just also be that Cory was imprisoned for 1000 years, while the Architect was free? We don't know what exactly happened to the other Magisters but Cory, so they could have also slept the same time or wandered through the Deep Roads the whole time. 

 

They're powers could be based on what they could do back during their magister time, which might explain why Cory and the Architect have differing powers. Or, because Archie has been experimenting on darkspawn the whole time, he started to identify with them? I just assume he is someone who experiments, because apparently he was the one who devised the ritual that brought them into the black city. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Architect doesn't just identify as a darkspawn. He thinks he is one of them. He admits doesn't understand other living things, if he ever used to be one of the, he clearly doesn't remember. 

[ModernAcademic]

I find this amnesia of his deeply disturbing.

 

He shouldn't be immune to the Calling. Maybe his unusual rationality and clarity of mind are linked to it. Or maybe not. Maybe he is truly a Magister. But if he were, he would be able to hear the Old Gods, much like Corypheus. 

[Heimdall]

I find this amnesia of his deeply disturbing.

He shouldn't be immune to the Calling. Maybe his unusual rationality and clarity of mind are linked to it. Or maybe not. Maybe he is truly a Magister. But if he were, he would be able to hear the Old Gods, much like Corypheus.

He can hear the call of the Old Gods, as described in the calling, he's just able to ignore it.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Mother says he can only hear a faint echo of the song of the Old Gods or something.

[In Exile]

Larius specifically says he mimics the call of the Old Gods in Legacy. If the Architect could have influenced the Grey Wardens, he wouldn't have needed send the Withered to Vigil's Keep to obtain their help. The Architect is not confused. But Corypheus was. Even in DAI he couldn't seem to keep his stories about the Golden/Black City straight. 

 

Corypheus was someone who still thought of himself as a Tevinter Magister as opposed a darkspawn. But The Architect not only does not, but he doesn't even know he is or even understand non darkspawn. 

 

Corypheus mimics the call of the old gods while asleep. We don't actually know what the old gods are, or what their call is meant to represent. For all we know, the method of imprisonment the GWs used is actually functionally similar to what (the dwarves, probably) was used to imprison the OGs in the first place, with the "Call" being a kind of unconscious reaching out through the Blight/Taint. 

 

I don't understand why you think the identity point and the differing set of powers matters. Vivienne and Blackwall differ in a lot of ways. Most notably the fact that only one has magic powers. But that doesn't mage one not human. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Vivienne and Blackwall are two unrelated random people. The Architect and Corypheus would be two people of only a handful who went through the same very specific process of being transformed into darkspawn by the Black City together.

 

The Song of the Old Gods continues while they are awake. That's why Archdemons draw so many darkspawn to them during blights. It's also why Ruck could hear Urthemiel. Similarly, Corypheus' call influenced the wardens while he was asleep and when he was awake. 

[Panda]

Like others said I think Architect does hear the call, but similar as Corypheus it doesn't control him. Wardens can also hear the call at times, but they don't follow it either, well most of time. Corypheus call for some reason was stronger, maybe because he was awaken and as magister has skills to influence people more than dragon with old god soul has. Idk really how he managed to do that to Wardens it was never quite explained ^^;

[In Exile]

Vivienne and Blackwall are two unrelated random people. The Architect and Corypheus would be two people of only a handful who went through the same very specific process of being transformed into darkspawn by the Black City together.

The Song of the Old Gods continues while they are awake. That's why Archdemons draw so many darkspawn to them during blights. It's also why Ruck could hear Urthemiel. Similarly, Corypheus' call influenced the wardens while he was asleep and when he was awake.

Vivienne and Blackwall are two humans. I went through school together with a lot of people, but that doesn't make us the same height, it doesn't give us the same intellectual prowess and it doesn't give us the same goals or beliefs.

If we had any reason to believe the taint affects people in the same way maybe there would be some merit to this but there isn't. We already know magical powers vary widely between individuals. Vivienne and Morrigan do not have the same power set. There's no reason to assume Corypheus and the Architect would have the same powers millennia after their creation.

Corypheus does NOT have a calling while awake. This is why he needs the nightmare. And more importantly I realised you've totally mischaracterized DAA. Becoming awakening takes away the ability to hear the song of the OGs. It's not like suddenly the Calling otherwise ceased to exist. So you actually have no idea what the Architect can do on this front besides not having the power to influence the protagonist.

[Heimdall]

Corypheus does NOT have a calling while awake. This is why he needs the nightmare. And more importantly I realised you've totally mischaracterized DAA. Becoming awakening takes away the ability to hear the song of the OGs. It's not like suddenly the Calling otherwise ceased to exist. So you actually have no idea what the Architect can do on this front besides not having the power to influence the protagonist.

Well, I think he does, or atleast in the sense that he has power over the taint and can mimic the calling. He differs from Old Gods in two chief respects:

*He can influence Wardens not near their calling to a hitherto unprecedented level
*His ability has a limited range.

On the latter point, I always saw the Nightmare as being a dramatic amplifier for an ability Corypheus already had.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If Corypheus can't influence the Wardens how did to control the ones he used to restrain the Divine or join him as his honor guard in the Temple of Mythal?

 

Going to the same school with someone is hardly the same as being mutated together by the same supernatural force in the same moment. I don't know why you would make that analogy. Magical potential is not the same as having the taint. We do know the darkspawn taint affects people in the same way. Someone who is infected with the darkspawn taint becomes a ghoul. Recruits who undergo the joining either die or all gain the same warden abilities. 

[In Exile]

If Corypheus can't influence the Wardens how did to control the ones he used to restrain the Divine or join him as his honor guard in the Temple of Mythal?

 

Going to the same school with someone is hardly the same as being mutated together by the same supernatural force in the same moment. I don't know why you would make that analogy. Magical potential is not the same as having the taint. We do know the darkspawn taint affects people in the same way. Someone who is infected with the darkspawn taint becomes a ghoul. Recruits who undergo the joining either die or all gain the same warden abilities. 

 

So the taint doesn't affect people the same way. And women don't just turn into ghouls. 

 

The Wardens he used were possibly still bound through the demon summoning ritual. I thought that was the implication. He didn't control Janeka or Larius before he woke up. 

[myahele]

Corypheus from WoT2

 

Seems like there was some type of magic (now lost) that can mimic Dumat's call by using Dumat's remains + bloodmagic, which Corypheus followed. 

 

Perhaps the slight discrepancy between what Corypheus says in Awakening vs DAI might be attributed to Warden Sasha pretending to be Dumat to lead him on before sealing him?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

So the taint doesn't affect people the same way. And women don't just turn into ghouls. 

 

The Wardens he used were possibly still bound through the demon summoning ritual. I thought that was the implication. He didn't control Janeka or Larius before he woke up. 

 

The demon summoning ritual control ended with the Nightmare being banished. That can't be it. Especially since not all the wardens he still controlled were mages at all. Stroud even tells Hawke that he figured Corypheus took control of their minds the way he had seem them do before.

 

Women do turn into ghouls. Some female ghouls become broodmothers but not all of them. That takes a specific process the darkspawn subject them to. And that doesn't even apply to Corypheus and the Architect. It affects them differently based on their gender, not based on them being different individuals.

 

I also thought the reason Janeka and Larius ran away instead of helping you fight him was because of his influence.

[Urzon]

I'm slightly creeped out that its implied that the Grey Wardens keep the remains of the Archdemon carcasses and some sort of "ancient weapon". We know that will all end well.  Though, Cory being drawn to Dumat's blood does give some credence to the theory that the magisters might play a part in finding and corrupting their corresponding Old God.

[littlebrightpanda]

 

Women do turn into ghouls. Some female ghouls become broodmothers but not all of them. That takes a specific process the darkspawn subject them to. And that doesn't even apply to Corypheus and the Architect. It affects them differently based on their gender, not based on them being different individuals.

 

 

 

We don't know exactly what happens when women get turned into broodmothers. I suspect, because the process is quite complicated, that someone devised it. Who that someone was, I don't know, but I bet there was some experimentation going on before they figured out what exactly they had to do to make a tainted woman mutate. 

 

I've heard that some people think that the first broodmother was one of the magisters, but why should all the male magisters be turned into darkspawn and only the women turned into complex ghouls (I suspect there was at least one female magisters from the original seven)? That would be kind of weird. 

[Heimdall]

We don't know exactly what happens when women get turned into broodmothers. I suspect, because the process is quite complicated, that someone devised it. Who that someone was, I don't know, but I bet there was some experimentation going on before they figured out what exactly they had to do to make a tainted woman mutate.

I've heard that some people think that the first broodmother was one of the magisters, but why should all the male magisters be turned into darkspawn and only the women turned into complex ghouls (I suspect there was at least one female magisters from the original seven)? That would be kind of weird.

Because they would be different from all broodmothers in the same sense the other magisters differ drastically from any other ghoul or darkspawn. I suspect that all emissaries originate with these broodmothers, especially with the unique models they got in DA2 rather than being random hurlocks and genlocks. (I think the resemblance to the Architect and Corypheus indicates this retcon)

I also don't think broodmother creation is a created process though. I think that, like most things unawakened darkspawn do, it's an embedded instinctive behavior, not unlike the compulsion to dig for and taint the Old Gods.

[Ahriman]

I'm slightly creeped out that its implied that the Grey Wardens keep the remains of the Archdemon carcasses and some sort of "ancient weapon". We know that will all end well.

These guys came up with the idea of drinking Archdemon's blood, what would you expect from them?

 

We don't know exactly what happens when women get turned into broodmothers. I suspect, because the process is quite complicated, that someone devised it. Who that someone was, I don't know, but I bet there was some experimentation going on before they figured out what exactly they had to do to make a tainted woman mutate.

Isn't it about feeding females with tainted meat, instead of infecting them with blood?

 

I've heard that some people think that the first broodmother was one of the magisters

I don't know what on writerers' minds, but it would be logical, since how else would first darkspawn appear if there were only 7 magisters? Unless hundreds of them  somehow fell of Black City.

[littlebrightpanda]

These guys came up with the idea of drinking Archdemon's blood, what would you expect from them?

 

Isn't it about feeding females with tainted meat, instead of infecting them with blood?

 

I don't know what on writerers' minds, but it would be logical, since how else would first darkspawn appear if there were only 7 magisters? Unless hundreds of them  somehow fell of Black City.

 

It's feeding them tainted meat and raping them + something else, if we can believe Hespith's poem. The first two I would attribute to instinctive darkspawn behavior, but the "something else" is what makes me wonder that it actually might be a constructed ritual. 

 

And I actually think that darkspawn existed before the Black City incident, but they lacked a hive mind, which was added when the magisters became darkspawn. Magister listened to the Old Gods -> taint creates an actual connection -> magisters are a bridge for the call of the Old Gods to all darkspawn. Or something like that. I just really hate the idea that the male magisters stayed semi-sentient beings and that the female magisters turned into something reduced to reproduction.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I don't know what on writerers' minds, but it would be logical, since how else would first darkspawn appear if there were only 7 magisters? Unless hundreds of them somehow fell of Black City.

Easy answer is that Darkspawn predate the Magisters and the Magisters entering the Black City roused them from their slumber in the Deep Roads. There is evidence in the Temple of Mythal that the elves fought a Darkspawn like enemy in the ancient past after all.

[Ahriman]

Easy answer is that Darkspawn predate the Magisters and the Magisters entering the Black City roused them from their slumber in the Deep Roads. There is evidence in the Temple of Mythal that the elves fought a Darkspawn like enemy in the ancient past after all.

Can you give more info on that? I went peaceful route there, so didn't see much.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Can you give more info on that? I went peaceful route there, so didn't see much.

You can encounter it on the peaceful route. I'm not sure if it is on the non-peaceful route. Anyways, there are two things pointing to the existence of some form of Darkspawn during the Elvhan Empire days.

The first is a relief that you encounter somewhere in the temple that depicts a group of elves (with at least one Halls) fighting against a group of undead looking creatures (including at least one skeletal Halls). If you get close to the relief, your party members will comment about how they look like Darkspawn.

The second thing is a piece of untranslatable writing you can get into your codex. If you drink from the Well, the spirits will give you a translation when you look at the codex again. There are three (?) of these, but the important one for this discussion is the one talking about hunting the pillars of the Earth. This entry makes mention that the Pillars of the Earth have souless workers. The only creatures we have seen describes as souless to date are the darkspawn.
http://dragonage.wik...d_Elven_Writing

[Ahriman]

You can encounter it on the peaceful route. I'm not sure if it is on the non-peaceful route. Anyways, there are two things pointing to the existence of some form of Darkspawn during the Elvhan Empire days.

The first is a relief that you encounter somewhere in the temple that depicts a group of elves (with at least one Halls) fighting against a group of undead looking creatures (including at least one skeletal Halls). If you get close to the relief, your party members will comment about how they look like Darkspawn.

The second thing is a piece of untranslatable writing you can get into your codex. If you drink from the Well, the spirits will give you a translation when you look at the codex again. There are three (?) of these, but the important one for this discussion is the one talking about hunting the pillars of the Earth. This entry makes mention that the Pillars of the Earth have souless workers. The only creatures we have seen describes as souless to date are the darkspawn.
http://dragonage.wik...d_Elven_Writing

Quite shady, but interesting. Still

First one could be about demons.

Second one could be about dwarfes. They can't enter Fade, nor in dream nor after death, casting is also unavaiable to them, so technically...

[myahele]

Here's some of the images of potential darkspawns,.

 

 

When I 1st saw them in game i immediately thought: ghouls. But with all other information I think they're mind-controlled elves. But who knows

[littlebrightpanda]

Here's some of the images of potential darkspawns,.

 

 

When I 1st saw them in game i immediately thought: ghouls. But with all other information I think they're mind-controlled elves. But who knows

 

Isn't it a theory that the taint existed a very long time ago? I remember something about Andruil going into the abyss, hunting forgotten ones and going crazy. And the forgotten ones not liking having to stay in the void. So it might be that there were elven ghouls, infect somehow by the void.

 

Also, red lyrium in the primeval thaig. It might have gotten there after the first blight started, but the thaig is too weird and red lyrium was unknown before Hawke and Varric found it, so the knowledge might have gotten lost a long time ago. If red lyrium had been known before, somebody would have tried profiting from it. 

 

That's why I think it's at least plausible that some type of darkspawn existed before the blight. There is more to the taint than it just popping out of the fade with the magisters. Already the "magister tainted the city" vs. "the city was already black" throws shade on general beliefs of what happened. If it was black before, why and how?