166 réponses à ce sujet

[Terminator Force]

Yeah, sure. Except for that "little detail" that it takes 8 bloody seconds for it to do that kind of damage. And if you, or anyone else on the team, is half capable at this game, anything that got incinerated will die in far less than that time. Which means that the damage it's gonna do in real game circumstances is more like 4k tops, and that's being very generous. 3.5 seems more like it.

 

It's like saying "hey, DC is the most powerful power in the game cause it can do more than 30k damage per cast! Wow!".

 

Most pugs aren't.

[Terminator Force]

I don't exclusively play her with Claymore either (pretty much every shotgun and most of the pistols), but using stagger lock means even less reason to take fitness. Nothing should ever be able to shoot you with such a setup, and quarian power damage bonus is pretty good, (only drell can be 5% higher IIRC). Though yeah, with a pitiful weapon like the Falcon you probably won't get much use out of the weapon damage at rank 6, but still more than fitness when you've a stagger weapon and two good CC powers (3 if you count incinerate's burn effect).

Either way, your statement of "no reason not to take fitness" seemed very silly to me, when full quarian fitness is a terrible investment unless you want to stack some shield power cells on it (which I admittedly do sometimes with 5 ranks in the quarksman) play melee, or are singularly obsessed with tanking gold banshee warps for some reason. 390 shields and .6 off of recharge makes no difference when you don't have any DR and aren't getting under shieldgate's recharge threshold without cells anyway.
 

 

 I like full Quarian fitness. And Quarians have great fitness too (FQE = 825/990 & MQE = 875/1050). Got to save up on them gels in no manifest land, because why buy yucky Jumbo Packs to replenish gels when you can buy the 6 & 9k packs instead because you don't need that many gels.

[Terminator Force]

It used to be great before they nerfed it especially against reapers.  You could literally have 2 brutes a bunch of husks and a banshee all standing around it like idiots while you shot them apart.   Now they just ignore it and since then so do I.  I don't waste points on it.  More fun spamming cyro blast and incinerate with her now. 

 

The Turret then was clearly broken. So them fixing this issue was a good thing. And it seems like all they did was make melee enemies avoid the turret, thus effectively cutting down on how many enemies are attracted to it.

 

And it's better that the shooting mooks attracted to the turret anyway, since melee kits aren't really a threat outside of teleporting though walls to magnet grab you Banshee's.

[TheShadyEngineer]

I can't be the only one who runs their Claymore QFE with disruptors instead of incendiary.. right?

 

I mean with cryo blasted incinerates and pure Claymore damage, armor is pretty much a non issue. Shield damage on the other hand is lackluster with this build and disruptor rounds do a great job at compensating for that.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I can't be the only one who runs their Claymore QFE with disruptors instead of incendiary.. right?

 

I mean with cryo blasted incinerates and pure Claymore damage, armor is pretty much a non issue. Shield damage on the other hand is lackluster with this build and disruptor rounds do a great job at compensating for that.

 

I prefer the Adas on her. Shields aren't an issue and it staggers everything.

[Kenny Bania]

I can't be the only one who runs their Claymore QFE with disruptors instead of incendiary.. right?

 

I mean with cryo blasted incinerates and pure Claymore damage, armor is pretty much a non issue. Shield damage on the other hand is lackluster with this build and disruptor rounds do a great job at compensating for that.

 

I use disruptor on her with a few other weapons, but go with AP when I use the Claymore or Wraith.

 

Wraith QFE > Claymore QFE btw

[TheShadyEngineer]

I prefer the Adas on her. Shields aren't an issue and it staggers everything.

Mook shields maybe, which aren't a big deal anyway since a Claymore takes em down in one solid hit even without ammo mods. If we're talking about Primes or Atlases then shields are very much so an issue.

 

I use disruptor on her with a few other weapons, but go with AP when I use the Claymore or Wraith.

 

Wraith QFE > Claymore QFE btw

Same here. I started looking for alternatives for AP and drill though because I was running low on them.

[emexia]

I can't be the only one who runs their Claymore QFE with disruptors instead of incendiary.. right?

 

I mean with cryo blasted incinerates and pure Claymore damage, armor is pretty much a non issue. Shield damage on the other hand is lackluster with this build and disruptor rounds do a great job at compensating for that.

 

I switch between incendiary and disruptor. Though if I'm playing against Geth or Unknown, I will always take the disruptor. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Mook shields maybe, which aren't a big deal anyway since a Claymore takes em down in one solid hit even without ammo mods. If we're talking about Primes or Atlases then shields are very much so an issue.

 

 

Adas does 200% dmg vs. shields and barriers. With the bonus from Cryo Blast that's close to 1000 dmg to shields each hit, assuming 30% dmg bonus from ammo.

 

Incendiary, Disruptor and Cryo rounds interfer with her powers, I see no reason to detonate weak tech bursts in the middle of my combos.

[TheShadyEngineer]

Adas does 200% dmg vs. shields and barriers. With the bonus from Cryo Blast that's close to 1000 dmg to shields each hit, assuming 30% dmg bonus from ammo.

 

Incendiary, Disruptor and Cryo rounds interfer with her powers, I see no reason to detonate weak tech bursts in the middle of my combos.

First part, sure, I'll give you that. But keep in mind that the Adas has a chit rate of fire and I'm pretty sure a Claymore with disruptors, or hell, a Claymore in general will easily outgun it against shields. I'm not gonna test the math now because the internet on my phone is stupid slow and trying to open multiple tabs is a huge kick in the dick. I might run some calculations when I get home though.

 

Second part, what the hell are you talking about? What combos? Lolturretflamer and incinerate? I'd much rather have 3 "weak tech bursts" or a single ammo primed FE than wait for the turret to target an enemy with it's flamethrower, shoot its flamethrower and wait another second for the primer to take hold.

[Miniditka77]

I guess the way I see it, characters that play alike are alike. I can understand playing, say, a volus with a batarian gauntlet, because even if it's not as good as another character, it's very different. But If you've got a choice between two characters that you're going to use just cryo and claymore on, then to me they're basically identical. And if you have two identical classes, why use the worse one?  Though I suppose you could be playing for the quarian hop, that's different.

I do understand that though. If you want to play that way for diversity's sake, I fully agree with you. Just don't go saying that it's the best way to play the class. That would be silly.

 

But the QFE and the HI are not "alike."  They share one freaking power in common.  By your logic, using any good weapon on the QFE is unacceptable, because the HI is going to perform better with it.  And again, who said you have to just use Cryo Blast and the Claymore?  The QFE has two other powers, which create the "diversity" you're looking for.

 

And there is no one definitive "best way" to play any class (other than maybe the Novaguard).  You play what works for you.  There are some players who would probably do better with the Claymore on the QFE than any other setup, and it's not silly to say it's the best.  It's not my favorite way to play her (I prefer the Wraith or Lancer), but it's very effective.

[Miniditka77]

I can't be the only one who runs their Claymore QFE with disruptors instead of incendiary.. right?

 

I mean with cryo blasted incinerates and pure Claymore damage, armor is pretty much a non issue. Shield damage on the other hand is lackluster with this build and disruptor rounds do a great job at compensating for that.

 

I use Disruptors sometimes too.  I think I like Incendiary better overall for Gold, because the Claymore laughs at mook shields.  Disruptors are best against Geth though, and they are probably as good as Incendiary on Cerberus.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

Oh, also; the Talon does less damage than the claymore.. In exchange, you get better cooldowns. How the heck is that any more overpowered than the claymore itself?

well you can answer that one yourself

 

1) That's perfectly true. And the Talon is superior in every way. Not only does it have comparative DPS to the claymore(slightly less, but who's counting), but it has a 1.5x damage modifier versus shields and barriers, making it almost 50% BETTER than the claymore in that circumstance. 

It does comparable sustained DPS (actually more vs shields) but has nowhere near the encumberance. Using it gives you top tier weapon DPS and full power DPS at the same time. When I can get better results out of even a weapon platform like QMS, Tsol or GI by using a Talon instead of most of the heavy guns, you know the gun is broken. It shouldn't have anywhere near 200% cooldown for how much damage it does. It's nowhere near the Claymore, which does around the same damage but actually penalizes you for its effectiveness. So no, I don't think your build is "better" simply for that reason. Reegar is the best weapon in the game on every build by such logic.

Even with the benefit of a more powerful weapon, I'm not convinced that your build is superior in terms of the damage it can do in practical terms. Derpbear addressed many of the potential reasons as to why, but suffice to say that your argument relies solely on single target sustained armor DPS within the Talon's optimal damage range, makes lots of assumptions, manipulates conditions and ignores tons of important variables that potentially don't suit it.

For the record, I think the Talon's a good weapon on her, but I can't think of many situations where I wouldn't rather have a Wraith or an Arc Pistol if we are talking effectiveness at doing pretty much same thing. 

I guess the way I see it, characters that play alike are alike. I can understand playing, say, a volus with a batarian gauntlet, because even if it's not as good as another character, it's very different. But If you've got a choice between two characters that you're going to use just cryo and claymore on, then to me they're basically identical. And if you have two identical classes, why use the worse one?  Though I suppose you could be playing for the quarian hop, that's different.

I do understand that though. If you want to play that way for diversity's sake, I fully agree with you. Just don't go saying that it's the best way to play the class. That would be silly.

You aren't only using Cryo and Claymore, so I really don't get this criticism. You can still use all 3 powers every few seconds even if you use a heavier weapon like the Claymore. A QFE shares only one power and plays completely differently to a HI or a Havoc, so I don't know where you're getting "identical" from, nor "worse". I could equally ask you why you are playing the QFE as a 200% PRS caster when pretty much every other engineer does a better job of that due to actually having natural combos that work on more than just health. The N7 Paladin can be set up to play pretty similarly to your build at 200% PRS but does far, far more damage, so why are you using the "worse" (in your words, not mine) option of the two? 

And again with this "best" nonsense? I don't think anyone here has made such an argument, merely that it is a fun way to play her that is also quite effective, but if you are so miffed at Claymore builds because you think they aren't the most optimal than why aren't you using the Reegar on her, since it clearly outdoes your Talon build using your own conditions?

[Terminator Force]

I use disruptor on her with a few other weapons, but go with AP when I use the Claymore or Wraith.

 

Wraith QFE > Claymore QFE btw

 

Extra penetration. I like that too on my FQE.

[PopcornMasterRace]

Raptor

[The NightMan Cometh]

BSN Heresy: I skip cryo blast on her   ..I go Flamethrower turret / radius on Incinerate  Take Particle Rifle with Incid Ammo...BURN EVERYTHING.

[Quarian Master Race]

Adas does 200% dmg vs. shields and barriers. With the bonus from Cryo Blast that's close to 1000 dmg to shields each hit, assuming 30% dmg bonus from ammo.

 

Incendiary, Disruptor and Cryo rounds interfer with her powers, I see no reason to detonate weak tech bursts in the middle of my combos.

lolwut? It's free damage and CC that doesn't interfere with anything. Though I don't get using the Adas on her either apart from lore reasons. It makes killing armor tedious with her unless you carry a backup.

[TheNightSlasher]

Though I don't get using the Adas on her either apart from lore reasons. It makes killing armor tedious with her unless you carry a backup.

I use adas predominantly on her and between cryo and incinerate, I never found armor tedious.

[DemiserofD]

 

 

snip

 

 

There have been several people in the thread who have just out and out stated that a claymore build is superior to a talon build. I honestly don't care if you've tried them both and just like the claymore better, but if you've never even given it a decent chance and still say one is better than the other it irritates me a little. Plus, I just like arguing. If there hasn't been shouting and/or tears by the end, it's not good enough!

And the thing about the other two powers she has is that, since she's so power damage based, if you're not speccing into power damage, your power damage is going to be so terrible it very nearly might as well not exist at all. Honestly, the DPS you gain from an incinerate might not even compensate for the damage you lose from not shooting during that very brief time period.

[DaemionMoadrin]

http://kalence.drupa...43T51343!ADGE.5

 

Cryo Blast gets detonated by Incinerate (eventually), rinse and repeat while you use the Adas for additional dmg and stagger. Any ammo that doesn't apply effects will do.

 

Sure, there are kits and weapons that kill much faster but it works for me. Easily top the scoreboard with her every time and I can kill Phantoms without switching weapons. Also, I can shoot around corners. Somewhat. ^^

 

The only disadvantage is that the Adas can't shoot through enemies and fires at the one in front... but for that you can throw the turret behind the group.
 

[Quarian Master Race]

I use adas predominantly on her and between cryo and incinerate, I never found armor tedious.

differences in opinion. I see the Adas as a CC and priming tool, jobs which she already does fine. If you enjoy taking 30+ seconds to kill a lone crab or banshee than more power to you. 

 

There have been several people in the thread who have just out and out stated that a claymore build is superior to a talon build. I honestly don't care if you've tried them both and just like the claymore better, but if you've never even given it a decent chance and still say one is better than the other it irritates me a little. Plus, I just like arguing. If there hasn't been shouting and/or tears by the end, it's not good enough!

And the thing about the other two powers she has is that, since she's so power damage based, if you're not speccing into power damage, your power damage is going to be so terrible it very nearly might as well not exist at all. Honestly, the DPS you gain from an incinerate might not even compensate for the damage you lose from not shooting during that very brief time period.

I went back through it and I don't think anyone but Deerber has claimed that. Lots of people have suggested the Claymore as fun, but I don't think it being objectively superior has been the reasoning, because frankly that is silly when weapons like the Reegar, Arc Pistol, Talon and Hurrdurricane exist. Also, I think you're doing a little of pot meet kettle by saying that people aren't giving the power build a chance (even though multiple people have suggested such weapons as adas and simultaneously dismissing the Claymore QFE out of hand as a gimped HI.

There's the thing, I don't think she's power damage based. In fact, I don't think any kit in the game is unless you intentionally build it to be so with some very select weapons designed for that (Adas, Acolyte Falcon, Krysae etc.). She's not the type of kit you can throw a shuriken on and still wreck with, for example. One of her powers doesn't even do any damage, for one, and no matter how much you may like the turret it isn't a reliable source of high damage because you aren't in control of what it does after you place it. Try going a whole game without using your gun on her. She's one of the most weapon reliant engineers there is in fact, since it is the only way she can really do any damage to shields and barriers. Your own build with 200% PRS has the majority of its damage done by the weapon you have chosen, because that's the way this game works, so I don't get where your criticism of another build that isn't really much different is coming from. You are essentially playing a weapon build, just one that can launch its powers faster than another because its high damage weapon is inexpicably much lighter. A better example of a power damage based build would be the Adas ones some people are posting, or something with an Acolyte.

[TheNightSlasher]

differences in opinion. I see the Adas as a CC and priming tool, jobs which she already does fine. If you enjoy taking 30+ seconds to kill a lone crab or banshee than more power to you. 

It doesn't.

 

I just tested my 46655 build with cryo ammo adas vs. a lone banshee on gold. Took about 18 seconds.

Disruptor, incendiary or warp ammo will reduce it a little bit more, ~15s.

 

I know it's not as fast as weapons that exploit the multi-hit glitch, but I don't think ~15s on a boss unit that's worth 100 points is 'tedious'.

 

Edit: I used the same build with the claymore + disruptor ammo (level III amps like the last case), and it took ~14s for a lone banshee. Not all my shots were headshots. Even if it were, it'd being down the time by something like 4s or so. Not a big difference.

 

Granted mine may not be the best build for a claymore QFE, but I wanted to compare with the same build.

[Salarian Master Race]

half the time with the Adas I'm not even sure if the shots are hitting or if they just think they are

[DemiserofD]

differences in opinion. I see the Adas as a CC and priming tool, jobs which she already does fine. If you enjoy taking 30+ seconds to kill a lone crab or banshee than more power to you. 

 

I went back through it and I don't think anyone but Deerber has claimed that. Lots of people have suggested the Claymore as fun, but I don't think it being objectively superior has been the reasoning, because frankly that is silly when weapons like the Reegar, Arc Pistol, Talon and Hurrdurricane exist. Also, I think you're doing a little of pot meet kettle by saying that people aren't giving the power build a chance (even though multiple people have suggested such weapons as adas and simultaneously dismissing the Claymore QFE out of hand as a gimped HI.

There's the thing, I don't think she's power damage based. In fact, I don't think any kit in the game is unless you intentionally build it to be so with some very select weapons designed for that (Adas, Acolyte Falcon, Krysae etc.). She's not the type of kit you can throw a shuriken on and still wreck with, for example. One of her powers doesn't even do any damage, for one, and no matter how much you may like the turret it isn't a reliable source of high damage because you aren't in control of what it does after you place it. Try going a whole game without using your gun on her. She's one of the most weapon reliant engineers there is in fact, since it is the only way she can really do any damage to shields and barriers. Your own build with 200% PRS has the majority of its damage done by the weapon you have chosen, because that's the way this game works, so I don't get where your criticism of another build that isn't really much different is coming from. You are essentially playing a weapon build, just one that can launch its powers faster than another because its high damage weapon is inexpicably much lighter. A better example of a power damage based build would be the Adas ones some people are posting, or something with an Acolyte.

I suppose that's fair. I guess I was arguing primarily with deerber so I subconsciously extended his views to everyone. Point to you.

QFE is definitely biased towards power damage though. Most other classes you can ignore power damage entirely because you'll be getting most of your damage from combos or guns, but the QFE has no good way of proccing her own 6/6 explosions, and is capable of using all three of her powers together just to amplify her power damage. I mean, heck, she has one power that can make another power do 250% damage! It might not be locked into power damage, but if ever there's been a class that would benefit from it, it's the QFE.

I can see the utility of the adas, too. Freakin' phantoms. Honestly, in platinum for me everything else is pretty much just a distraction from the primary task of killing all the phantoms.

[Quarian Master Race]

It doesn't.
 
I just tested my 46655 build with cryo ammo adas vs. a lone banshee on gold. Took about 16 seconds.
Disruptor, incendiary or warp ammo will reduce it a little bit more - a little under 15s.
 
I know it's not as fast as weapons that exploit the multi-hit glitch, but I don't think ~15s on a boss unit that's worth 100 points is 'tedious'.

Was this by chance a team setting with somewhat competent teammates?