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ISIS now hunts the infamous 17yr old British twins because they defected from the group.


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#51
Sully13

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Honistly its the SJW radical fekin mindset that i blame. look at the social media radicals who are so far left that the mental casses look rational. these nutters look just a tad more extreme.  

look at the recent shooting where the SJWs applauded the Shooters."well what did you think would happen? you had pics of Mohamad you have to do as we dictate."

these idiots think. this makes them an even bigger snowflake.

that being said Europe is already takeing back girls who ranaway and joined ISIS thay dont do it for boys though. and according to figures i recall arround 17% of frontline fighters for ISIS are Australian.



#52
Silvair

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What idiots. They should have thought about this before they ran off.

Some of those ISIS videos, one moment it shows barbarious acts followed jihadis having a great time and saying stuff like "Come to Jihad, you will not believe it, it is time of your life!" like it's some sort of Disneyland. There is something hilariously surreal about it all.


Well it is, if you're a hedonist, I suppose.

#53
In Exile

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There is no value in saving them, as there is no value in their decision making abilities as enlightened human beings. There's no hope for them becoming worthwhile wives for a western husband, nor would I trust them with the even bigger responsibility of raising a child.

 

The ****? How is that even remotely a relevant criteria? 



#54
slimgrin

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It can be done, on an individual level at least.

But it requires a complete reboot, using intense, harsh methods. I'm not talking torture or physical abuse, but more like what you see in some of the most successful drug rehab clinics - at least one year of lockdown, minimal outside contact, intense structure/scheduling, constant evaluation and therapy... in the words of Skinner "give me a child and I'll shape him into anything." One need only apply nearly constant effort.

Not voluntary weekly support groups or whatever passes for the rehab programs they have in place. That's not addressing the core fundamental issue at play, nor reaching the most hardline subscribers to this type of ideology.

 

You can't readily reboot a person's cultural or religious values, nor is it anyone's responsibility to do so. If you're a fanatic, you get locked away. For good. Even Norway made a legal exception for Breivik



#55
Kaiser Shepard

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The ****? How is that even remotely a relevant criteria? 

 

They're women, why wouldn't it be?


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#56
Sully13

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f**kin idiots is what thay are.



#57
In Exile

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They're women, why wouldn't it be?

 

I'm going to loop right back to "the ****?". 



#58
Bayonet Hipshot

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I'd like to hear you to repeat those words with an AK-47 pointed at your temple. It's easy to be a smooth talker with the lives of others.

 

I, as an adult, did not choose to renounce my citizenship and my former lifestyle to join ISIS. Bed, made, lie. What is the role playing game motto ? Ah yes, its "actions have consequences". These twins committed an action and now they have to face the consequences. 

 

 

Those women are asking for help. You're saying it's right to deny help because they have made a heavy mistake. This mindset explains also why death penalty - and inhuman life-sentence - is still active in the U.S. plus other divinely enlightened countries.

 

Innocent or not, they want help because they will die, most probably. You'd deny help to a person, the one that betrayed you, even when she clearly fears for her life. It's the most irresponsible way to deal with humanity, and this mindset states you two are unerring whilst others are not. Pray you don't ever make a mistake, you won't be forgiven by others like you.

 

Yes, it is right to deny these women help. Society does not need to white knight for women or be Captain Save-A-Wench for women, especially women who made really stupid decisions. 

 

Women should face the consequences of their actions, no matter how harsh, by themselves. This is no longer the disney medieval chivalrous age where some special snowflake princess can do something stupid and expect a Prince Charming to save her arse. This is the 21st century real world of gender equality and female empowerment.  

 

I doubt any one of us will willingly give up the Western way of life and join a terrorist organization hell bent on re-enacting some barbaric caliphate bullshite. 

 

 

A number of women get the 'tingles from such "bad boys". Look at how Charles Mansion and other such criminals get marriage offers from women outside of prison.

 

If these women cannot control and master their primitive urges to get wet for the jerks, the brutes and the thugs...Once again, that is that particular woman's problem, not ours. 

 

I mean, men get turned on / sexually aroused by displays of female sexuality and women in the Western world display their sexuality practically everywhere...However, the number of men that succumb to their sexual desires and then go on to rape or force sex from women are relatively small...

 

If men on average can control our desires well, so can women. Society should not expect any less. 


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#59
Kaiser Shepard

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I'm going to loop right back to "the ****?". 

 

Are you going to deny that's why they got themselves in that mess to begin with, or are you merely going to repeat the same old oneliners that don't really say anything?



#60
Sully13

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split tail or not thay are still fekin idiots regardless.



#61
Kaiser Arian XVII

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What must be done in a row:

 

1st: Bring them back

2nd: Interview them on TV and use them media-wise

3rd: Torture them and get the real info about ISIS

4th: Execute them (Gun shoot or Guillotine)

 

Edited for a better idea.


Modifié par Kaiser Arian-Keraunos, 16 mai 2015 - 12:18 .


#62
SafetyShattered

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Unlike a couple people on here, I don't believe they should receive any mercy. The truth of the matter is ISIS is absolutely despicable. I mean these guys have sawed the heads off of children. And these dumb asses joined that group. They joined a group...that ******....decapitated....children. Anyone that runs off thinking "Oh wowzah these guys seem so rad!!! I want to be a part of this!" is almost just as bad. They made their decision. They should live with their consequences. That's called being an adult. We're responsible for our actions, good or bad. It's not the government's job to be a while knight in every situation.
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#63
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Unlike a couple people on here, I don't believe they should receive any mercy. The truth of the matter is ISIS is absolutely despicable. I mean these guys have sawed the heads off of children. And these dumb asses joined that group. They joined a group...that ******....decapitated....children. Anyone that runs off thinking "Oh wowzah these guys seem so rad!!! I want to be a part of this!" is almost just as bad. They made their decision. They should live with their consequences. That's called being an adult. We're responsible for our actions, good or bad. It's not the government's job to be a while knight in every situation.

 

Don't agree about the adult part though. When I was 17 I was a moron (unlike the "sagacious" 14-16 years olds on BSN)... still wouldn't join a group like that.



#64
Dean_the_Young

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Can anyone actually explain this to me. I find it funny that the same people that speak about misoginy and oppression are the same people who defend radical Islam. I just shake my head. How many people on here have actually been in a Muslim country for more than a few days? for more than a few weeks? for more than a month? and not as a tourist? When I was in Paktika, the females weren't even allowed to eat in the same room as the males. They were given the scraps we didn't eat after we were finished.

 

The short answer is because they don't see it, out of sight is out of mind, and it's hard to really care about something you don't think about.


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#65
Dean_the_Young

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They're teenagers that probably thought it'd be great to run away with a boy in a foreign country. I seriously doubt they even considered the rest of the crap ISIS stands for. They're sheltered Muslim girls, who probably did what they did because of a lack of education. They should be used to educate other naïve women thinking the same way. There are also European girls that could use that same education.

 

One of the uncomfortable trends of the radicalized Muslim youths in the West is that in many cases they are not, in fact, poorly educated and ignorant youths without education or a clue. In fact, most of them have been coming from financial stable middle-class families with all the access to education and interwebs and media that the rest of us do. There's various questions and theories as to why this is (is it something unique to the bored semi-affluent, or do poorer people have less time and money available to entertain the idea of flights to jihad?), but the idea that only poor and stupid/uneducated people go to extremism is a myth.

 

Take these two-

 

 

The Somali-born twins - who are now reportedly safe - achieved 28 GCSEs between them and had ambitions to become doctors.

 

 

28 General Certificates of Secondary Education? Unless British education is something crazy stupid, that's not under-educated: that's exceptionally well educated. That's probably more than I could to have earned the equivalent of, and I'm much older than these two. These girls had time, and motivation, and the financial support to go out and learn quite a few things.

 

They might still be naive, but they probably weren't ignorant- and they certainly weren't uneducated.


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#66
Queen Skadi

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If these women cannot control and master their primitive urges to get wet for the jerks

 

What is up with this sentiment in this thread? Friend-zoned one too many times only to watch the girl you like go for the more interesting guy? Honestly I am not sure this is their reason for doing this.


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#67
Dean_the_Young

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After the extent of their connection is assessed, if they are believed reliable, there shouldn't be any further investigation. If they are somewhat suspect, the only thing is monitoring them, but they can't be put in prison or any kind of constraint, since (from what I have read) there seems not to be any war crimes on their account.

 

They chose to provide support to a declared terrorist organization which has very, very publicly murdered the citizens of their own country. They can totally go to prison for that, if they are tried as adults, and I suspect Britain has places it can send even legal minors to as well. They might not, but that would be more because of a political decision that they could best be used for counter-propoganda efforts than because of what the government could do.

 

But as for reliability and no further investigation? By virtue of being related to a radicalized terrorist recruiter and having joined the jihad themselves, these two have lost it. Whether because of the threat of further radicalization down the line, or the fact that they are persons of interest for still-active terrorists, or just the fact that they themselves are now persons of interest. For the rest of their lives they'll be on the monitoring lists for a half-dozen governments at least, their movements tracked and their communications watched with extra-scrutiny, and unlikely to get or be granted visas to travel to much of the world, until the day they die. Whether that is in the West, or more likely in the deserts of Syria/Iraq.



#68
Dermain

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I'll answer anyway, as you're still not as smart as you think you are: I choose simply going by who is and who isn't too dumb to live. It has nothing to do with this weird betrayal thing you seem to be stuck on, but rather some broads making several decisions that go straight against basic human survival instinct.

 

There is no value in saving them, as there is no value in their decision making abilities as enlightened human beings. There's no hope for them becoming worthwhile wives for a western husband, nor would I trust them with the even bigger responsibility of raising a child.

 

Chances are the vast majority of this forum would fit on the "too dumb to live" section.

 

It's rare that someone is actually as smart as they think they are.

 

It can be done, on an individual level at least.

But it requires a complete reboot, using intense, harsh methods. I'm not talking torture or physical abuse, but more like what you see in some of the most successful drug rehab clinics - at least one year of lockdown, minimal outside contact, intense structure/scheduling, constant evaluation and therapy... in the words of Skinner "give me a child and I'll shape him into anything." One need only apply nearly constant effort.

Not voluntary weekly support groups or whatever passes for the rehab programs they have in place. That's not addressing the core fundamental issue at play, nor reaching the most hardline subscribers to this type of ideology.

 

Problem being, it is torture, and it's marvelously legal (as long as you're properly certified of course). 

 

Everything you've listed are effective ways of "brainwashing" someone. It doesn't involve any physical torture, but it does involve emotional/psychological torture (likely unintentional if we're discussing addicts) which I would say is far more effective). Of course, even if it was in use I highly doubt people that come out of it would be able to successfully integrate with society, and how long the "retraining" would last.

 

The age of the "subjects" would also play an effect. Skinner, like John Watson before him, are both quoted by saying "give me a child..." since it's far easier to mold a child into a certain belief set than it would be with an adult. As far as I know, the only (publicly known?) test of that belief was John Watson's "Little Albert" experiment (and even then it's a probably a good thing that Little Albert didn't live past the age of nine).

 

It really has nothing to do with anxiety so it's not really a subject that I've done more than cursory research on.

 

I'm going to loop right back to "the ****?". 

 

I believe it's sarcasm since that's what their prospects are with in Syria/Iraq.

 

What is up with this sentiment in this thread? Friend-zoned one too many times only to watch the girl you like go for the more interesting guy? Honestly I am not sure this is their reason for doing this.

 

It probably wasn't, but people are going to claim it was anyways.



#69
Dean_the_Young

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I honestly don't understand the thought process here, what the hell possesses somebody to think "Gee ISIS sure sounds swell! Lets go to Iraq and become ISIS groupies!"? I don't understand how any female would choose of their own volition to follow the teachings of Islam let alone join such a radical group unless they were indoctrinated by religious dogma from a young age.

 

Not sure whether to despise these girls for their foolishness or pity them because of their religious upbringing.

 

The morality of a higher purpose. Same reason why a lot of people, whether on the left or right, romanticize authoritarian governments that conduct atrocities for the higher purpose, whether it be 'social progress' (the Soviet Union and the left) or 'traditional moral values' and so on. It's not unique to religion, or Islam.

 

A good part of the extremist recruiting pool in the West comes from the disillusionment and disappointment of people who don't feel they can live good lives in Western society. This isn't 'good life' in the sense of standards of living, legal/political/social equality, career/housing opportunities, or income inequality- this is 'good life' in the sense of 'morally good with a higher purpose or meaning.' The people who focus on all those threads of worldly western civilization, SJW or counter-movement conservatives or the media or Occupy or the 1%- none of these are the solution, they are the problem. None of them actually do anything about real issues that these people care about- like Israel-Palestine or Assad's massacre of good muslims or the corruption and fake piety of the ruling Muslim monarchs. To paraphrase the Arishok, they feed and they feed and merely complain when someone inconveniences their self-serving and rotting status quo.

 

Some people pick a side. Some people get fed up and disengage. And some look for something, anything, that promises to rise above it all and Really Mean Something. The highest of all causes (God), the greatest of reward (the afterlife), the moral-self-fulfillment of setting yourself apart from the trash and doing something for the Right Cause,

 

It helps that ISIS can claim to be the sort that Gets Thing Done. They fought the Americans when people hated the invasion of Iraq, but most of the West was either complicit or tutted about without doing anything to stop it. They fought Assad when he was butchering good Sunnis. They put an end to squabbling divisions and in-fighting amongst rebels that fought eachother as much as Assad. They purged the old corrupt local elites and cut off the hands of lowly theives alike. They enacted simple, clear laws with simple, clear punishments that don't need lawyers or fine print to understand. And they did it for a simple reason: This is how Righteousness began, and this is what it needs to be again. The reward is the favor of God and the afterlife- something no idle consumerism or worldly liberalism or military superpower could ever match or take away from you.
 

 

 

 

It's more complicated than that, of course. It always is. But it's easy to romanticize ISIS from a certain perspective, just as it's easy to romanticize any atrocious and atrocity-born authoritarian regime that speaks to your sense of moral purpose.

 

As a certain conqueror once said-

 

“A man does not have himself killed for a half-pence a day or for a petty distinction. You must speak to the soul in order to electrify him” – Napoleon Bonaparte.

 

ISIS and Old Time Religion can do that as much as any secular ideology.


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#70
Cunning Villain

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Don't agree about the adult part though. When I was 17 I was a moron (unlike the "sagacious" 14-16 years olds on BSN)... still wouldn't join a group like that.

 

The "I did it when I was young" excuse is usually reserved for petty transgressions, not joining an Islamic terror organization.


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#71
Dean_the_Young

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What obligation does the U.S. have to save them if they renounced their citizenship.

 

Obligation? None. Interest? The interest of self-interest.

 

If those girls don't get caught, raped, and killed in the deserts of the middle east (and not necessarily in that order either), every government in the region and the West will have an interest in saving them and putting them on tv to talk about just how bad ISIS is and why no one should ever do what they did. Regional governments will emphasize just how bad of muslims ISIS is and how they hurt Real Muslims, while the West will focus on the woman's rights and conditions angle, and everyone will nod heads and tut about how uncivilized ISIS is even as we drop bombs on them.

 

(Which has no bearing on who is civilized or not, I'm just feeling snarky at the moment..)


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#72
Cunning Villain

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Those women are asking for help. You're saying it's right to deny help because they have made a heavy mistake. This mindset explains also why death penalty - and inhuman life-sentence - is still active in the U.S. plus other divinely enlightened countries.

 

Innocent or not, they want help because they will die, most probably. You'd deny help to a person, the one that betrayed you, even when she clearly fears for her life. It's the most irresponsible way to deal with humanity, and this mindset states you two are unerring whilst others are not. Pray you don't ever make a mistake, you won't be forgiven by others like you.

 

Joining a terrorist organization is as much a simple "mistake" as the 2008 financial crisis was a "series of accounting errors."


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#73
Heimdall

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Obligation? None. Interest? The interest of self-interest.

 

If those girls don't get caught, raped, and killed in the deserts of the middle east (and not necessarily in that order either), every government in the region and the West will have an interest in saving them and putting them on tv to talk about just how bad ISIS is and why no one should ever do what they did. Regional governments will emphasize just how bad of muslims ISIS is and how they hurt Real Muslims, while the West will focus on the woman's rights and conditions angle, and everyone will nod heads and tut about how uncivilized ISIS is even as we drop bombs on them.

 

(Which has no bearing on who is civilized or not, I'm just feeling snarky at the moment..)

Good point.  There's also a message to be made that people in ISIS have options to defect instead of being stuck with them.

 

Though this is all dependent on two teenage girls with probably minimal if any knowledge of the terrain and money somehow getting away from a bunch of crazed yahoos with guns and sharp implements roaming the countryside.  I'm a little doubtful.



#74
Sully13

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honey badger Radio did a show about the Brides of the Taleban I'll post it when i can. 

They get into the Mind set of these morons.



#75
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

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If they are willing to be used as propaganda tools to ward off young people from ISIS and militant Islamism while being under supervision/detention for an unspecified period of time, then I've got no objection for them to be brought back to the UK. If not, then they can stay in Mosul and rot. Deal with the consequences of their actions.

It's one thing to make a mistake, it's quite another to plot, plan and undertake a journey half way across the world for the specific purpose of joining a terrorist organisation whose calling card is beheading hostages and innocents.
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