39 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

Just for reference, and I'm not saying the rumor is true or not. Also, I'm not particularly interested in long debates disagreeing about my personal interpretation of symbols in Mass Effect. I think what I think, you think what you think. Put down your constructive thoughts but especially leave any insults at the door before pressing 'Post'. Thanks!
(And for the record, this is all pasted from another forum I post on.)
 
~~~
 
Titan god of the day, light, oaths, sight, gold, the sun, arts, intelligence, healing, prophecy, plague, archery, truth, power, fire, youthful masculine beauty, the chariot, the sky, halo.
 
While Helius is not the sun god itself (as in being the sun), he is associated with (literally) bringing in the light of the sun, allowing the illumination of truth to occur. He burns away the darkness, allowing new possibilities, lives, and truths. However, improper usage of his heavenly fire can burn the world away.
 
Born of Hyperion, if that means anything.
 
Helius/Helios/Apollo/Sol.
 
Apollo/Sol are the more Olympianish god versions, I think.
 
Helius was also involved with war, just not commonly associated with it. He may have engaged in it from time to time, and had great strength, but he is more involved with knowing and seeing everything/most things, and taking action or inaction on this knowledge and information.
 
For those who like to connect all religions and mythologies together as stories, many consider him to have a connection to the concept of Jesus Christ. (Not the Helius character himself, or his story, but many of his attributes and symbols.)
 

 
 
Eh? Heh.

 
*shrug*
 
 
EDIT: While the original trilogy may have only tangential and slight connections to mythology, it was definitely there. A lot on afterlife, hades, death, walking corpses and corrupted phantoms, reaping of souls, even GETHsemane was the location where Jesus prayed and slept before his execution. The connection to be made here is: mortality and death. If the Helius idea for the next game is legitimate, then it could be the start of the next game(s) being connected to: immortality (the true second coming, as divine being, not just even brought back to mortal life from death like Lazarus, or at least the true resurrection of divinity) and life.
EDIT AGAIN: As such, we might see a story that is less about preventing the utter extinction of things and facing the horrors of our (galactic) sins, but instead be about the striving for the proliferation of things. A push forward, a search for new paths, and ways to share information and awareness to everyone. An attempt to ensure our survival, not just fight for it.

[Steppenwolf]

EDIT AGAIN: As such, we might see a story that is less about preventing the utter extinction of things and facing the horrors of our (galactic) sins, but instead be about the striving for the proliferation of things. A push forward, a search for new paths, and ways to share information and awareness to everyone. An attempt to ensure our survival, not just fight for it.

I don't see how any of this has any connection to Helius. To attribute these themes to Helius is a major stretch. And the names of solar systems have never had much, if any bearing on the stories therein in Mass Effect.

[SwobyJ]

I don't see how any of this has any connection to Helius. To attribute these themes to Helius is a major stretch. And the names of solar systems have never had much, if any bearing on the stories therein in Mass Effect.

 

Alright.

[Cheviot]

Well, the choice to send Humans to Helios (named after the god of the Sun) would've had the same connoctations as naming one of the first human colonies Eden prime; a reminder of home.  Also, Helius ended up becoming associated with the god Apollo, at least in the Eastern part of the Roman Empire, so much so, they became one god (Apollo Helios).  Apollo - incidently patron god of colonists and herds, amongst other things - did have a program named after him, to do with space or something?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, the choice to send Humans to Helios (named after the god of the Sun) would've had the same connoctations as naming one of the first human colonies Eden prime; a reminder of home.  Also, Helios is the Latin version of Apollo, you know, like the Apollo Program?

No, it's not. Helios was a Titan in Greek mythology. Apollo was a god in Greek mythology.

The Roman version of Apollo is Apollo, though also called Phoebus. The Roman equivalent to Helios is Sol.

[SwobyJ]

Well, the choice to send Humans to Helios (named after the god of the Sun) would've had the same connoctations as naming one of the first human colonies Eden prime; a reminder of home.  Also, Helios is the Latin version of Apollo, you know, like the Apollo Program?

 

Well, yes, exactly. I guess what I'm saying is that it'd be fitting - a new home for humanity, a new Sol, an EXPANDED Sol, and one that involves many more aliens and new technologies and cultures than even before.

 

No, it's not. Helios was a Titan in Greek mythology. Apollo was a god in Greek mythology.

The Roman version of Apollo is Apollo, though sometimes called  Phoebus. 

 

Indeed. This is the Titan character. However, I think that's mostly immaterial. IMO all the mythological references in Bioware games (not just Mass Effect) are generalized and mostly used to carry a tone and explain a basic trend to plots and themes.

[Cheviot]

The Roman version of Apollo is Apollo

I've amended my post to better reflect what I was getting at. Hopefully I've got it right this time.

[L. Han]

Sol is latin. Chances are it's Roman not Greek/Olympian.

[Degrees1991]

My head hurts.

[JeffZero]

My inner Daniel Jackson is satiated by this topic.

[SwobyJ]

My head hurts.

 

Can you explain why?

[goishen]

Well, yes, exactly. I guess what I'm saying is that it'd be fitting - a new home for humanity, a new Sol, an EXPANDED Sol, and one that involves many more aliens and new technologies and cultures than even before.

 

 

Indeed. This is the Titan character. However, I think that's mostly immaterial. IMO all the mythological references in Bioware games (not just Mass Effect) are generalized and mostly used to carry a tone and explain a basic trend to plots and themes.

 

 

Yah, that's what I'm thinking as well.   You never have to dig too deep to find meaning in anything, you just have to dig really deep to find every meaning in everything.

[Degrees1991]

Can you explain why?

Lol was just messing I find this thread eye opening. I'm kind of into ancient Greek/Roman myths but never took a real interest.

Anyway even though I like what you have written it seems like maybe too much of a stretch. Though if you're like half right that's cool.

The Jesus part yeah that got me.

[SwobyJ]

Yeah, I'm definitely stretching an interpretation here. But well, hey, I know that, and it's alright in itself.
 
The Jesus thing was mentioned because my thoughts go to:
ME1-3 --> Jesus' 'cult', miracles (Lazarus), 12 Apostles, and Crucifixion, all wrapped up in light symbolism (heavy handed at times, but not at all constantly reinforced or taken as remotely literal comparisons) for this scifi
'ME4' --> We have passed that time of the 'mortal' (yet miraculous) Jesus and what was defined more as his 'cult' of the time, and into the emphasis on the more religious story and the halo that surrounds sacred figures like the Jesus (and also any god of light/sun/dawn) that briefly returned to say goodbye before going to heaven
 
None of this is actually thinking in specifics though. I am, at no point, going 'A therefore B', just going off a feeling that 'Helios' would be quite fitting with the progression so far. And from that, I can make guesses. Like that the next protagonist (who/whatever they are) is going to be more of an inspiration to very many by the end (not just 'at the end, in middle of battle' like Shepard often was), and may have powers that could be determined to be more 'divine' in scale (less gun shooty shooty, more newly impressive biotic/tech wham ka-pow? haha). That we have a story about uncovering secrets and new information, over just collecting assets to combat a clear enemy. That we act more as a character to expand horizons for organics/humanity, than one to shepherd (heh) as many as possible through the bad times. That we're not a god of war (at the base of things/plot), but as Apollo, one who enables a sort of hope or understanding.
 
But these are all guesses. 100% guesses. I'm not strictly theorizing or anything like that. I'm waiting for E3, and looking forward to it.
 
Getting religious (for the record I'm agnostic atheist but whatever), so hidden away for those who don't like that:

Spoiler

If you want to take the part-of-Jesus-story bit further.. (From BibleGateway):
-Jesus appears before "doubting Thomas" and other disciples, "when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders", 'reeling from the death of your teacher, fearing for your life, and wondering if everything you believed in was actually true?'
-Rumors of an empty tomb spread, and Jesus appears in disguise to a pair of his followers. After visiting and teaching them for some time, and breaking bread and giving it, he reveals himself, their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?" (basically "How the eff did we not know it was him if we were so faithful?")
-Jesus performs his last recorded miracle, overwhelming the disciples' fishing nets with a huge catch. Peter is reinstated as a disciple, after being questioned by Jesus three times (to match the denial of knowing Jesus three times). Jesus tells Peter to "feed my sheep".
-Jesus instructs his disciples to go out into the world and spread the good news of salvation. (AKA the supposed establishment of the Christian religion, no longer the Jesus Christ cult) "..go and make disciples of all nations... surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
-The basis of the Christian emphasis on the sharing of the Gospel with the world through evangelism and missionary work.
-Jesus is "taken up into heaven" after speaking a final time. Jesus's story has reached its culmination with the death and resurrection, but these post-resurrection tidbits get to satisfy our curiosity about how the resurrection was received by his followers, and set the direction for Christians from then on.
 
Lazarus Station:

 
Speech standing above followers:
https://youtu.be/KJXPmWnJoQE
 
12 Followers/Apostles/Henchmen:

 
Synthesis for the sins of the galaxy:
 

 
And finally: http://www.reddit.co...e_spoilers_all/

•  
• 
  Crucified, wounds in the hands, feet, side and head: To the best of my knowledge, Shepard is never crucified. But they do suffer a chest wound (side of the ribs) during the final charge, and I would consider the facial scarring after ME1 to be a face wound. Not exactly a crown of thorns, but worth note.
• 
  In agony: Throughout ME3, Shepard is in torment over the War. They can choose to admit this or not, but they are very clearly in pain.
• 
  Self-sacrificing: Two of the three Crucible endings require Shepard to give up their own life to save the galaxy. Shep repeatedly places the fate of others before themselves. The ending is just the ultimate sacrifice Shepard makes for others.
• 
  Good with children: Starchild is the best example. The image of a dead child haunts Shepard throughout ME3, to the point where the Catalyst chooses that form for Shep. Not obvious, but it's there.
• 
  Thirty-three years of age: Shepard is ~32 years old in 2186. Give or take the date of the final battle, Shep could meet this requirement by the end of ME3.
• 
  Portrayed with arms outstretched: Only case of this is in the Control ending where Shep grabs both cables. Kinda iffy.
• 
  Known to have spent time alone in the wilderness: This is a big one. All of Shepard's stress dreams (or indoctrination, if that's your thing) take place in an infinite, gloomy forest. Shepard is alone, in the forest, facing their worst fears. This is best combined with
• 
  Tempted by the devil: The antagonist of all three games tempts Shepard in some way. Saren offers Shepard a place in the "new world" he wants to build, trying to convince Shep on Virmire. Harbinger taunts Shepard when assuming direct control, but more directly confronts them at the end of Arrival (ME2). Harbinger tries to convince Shepard that humanity will fail and that resistance is futile. The Reaper on Rannoch in ME3 says the same thing, trying to convince Shepard to give up. Shepard repeatedly faces temptation from antagonists.²
• 
  Seen in the company of thieves: A decent portion of Shepard's crew would be considered criminals or "questionable". Zaeed, Garrus, Kasumi, Wrex, Jack, and Thane are all outright criminals/mercenaries (and one rogue cop). Miranda and Jacob are/were members of a terrorist organization. In the same way, Jesus' company included the lowest elements of Roman society (the working poor, the diseased).
• 
  Buried and resurrected: This one's a gimme. The Lazarus Project is even named after a man resurrected by Christ as a miracle.
• 
  Has disciples of varying trustworthiness: The Normandy's squad can definitely be compared to Jesus' disciples. A ragtag group of individuals from different backgrounds united in their love/respect for a single individual. There's no Judas (unless you count Jacob's infidelity), but the comparison's pretty strong.
• 
  Very forgiving: Paragon Shep will forgive almost anything. They're willing to take on a geth squadmate despite fighting them two years before. Willing to listen to those considered guilty (Dr. Heart, the batarian terrorist) and to forgive those condemned (the geth, the krogan).
• 
  Miracles: Shep is pretty much pulls miracles constantly. Curing the genophage, peace between quarians and the geth, brokering peace between Miranda and Jack/Tali and Legion, defeating Sovereign/Collectors/Reapers. Not water to wine, but still impressive.
• 
  Came to redeem an unworthy world: Shepard is continually ignored and ridiculed for their warnings about the Reapers. Even though nobody believes in them, they choose to keep fighting and to eventually save the galaxy that fought so much against them. Shepard redeems the sins of the galaxy during the final battle.

Finally, the name Shepard is somewhat significant. Psalm 23, of course, reads "the lord is my shepherd", and Christ is often portrayed as a shepherd of souls through life.
tl;dr Shep is similar to Jesus Christ, and that adds a lot of weight to an already emotionally heavy story.

 
And I have to repeat - I'm not taking this directly and literally. We're allowed to interpret any way we wish, but I don't think symbols and images are used for no reason. I could just as well play a non-religious interpretation to everything, or gladly be the anti-Christ towards the God Child (Destroy). Any take can be taken. This, however, I think may be one, and with the possible inclusion of 'Helius/Helios' in the Mass Effect setting, I'm just saying that its at least possible that another step of the Christ story (among other stories and symbols, MANY others - I'm not exclusive about this stuff here..; in fact, I think Mass Effect uses up to dozens or hundreds of types of influences, personally) may happen. To sum up a lot of this, I think the next game may touch at least a little more on concepts of divinity over concepts of humanity (or scientific analogies to each ... whatever).

 

But Shepard is dead sonevermind. 

[SwobyJ]

Also, this stuff is hard to explain, so bear with me and focus on constructive stuff instead of tearing down what I already know is a weak and broadly symbolic take on a video game.

 

I'm so insecure!   

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Tell me another story about The Shepard.

[SwobyJ]

Tell me another story about The Shepard.

 

I knew I could count on you.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You know a troll could not resist.

 

[Malanek]

I think the Helius cluster probably does get it's name from the mythological Greek titan (Helius is Latin for Helios). So many other astronomical features (including Andromeda itself) are named from Greek mythology.

 

I'm not sure about looking for a deeper meaning though. Being the Greek version of Sol, after what our own system is named for, is interesting but probably as far as it goes. Other than that I guess there is the interaction between Odysseus and Helios, where Helios appeals to Zeus after Odysseus' crew slaughter some sacred animals for food. And so Zeus blasts Odysseus' ship apart. I did feel the best way of moving to Andromeda would be a wormhole, similar to the way Odysseus' ship is blown away in the Odyssey. But I think the connection is a bit too obscure though to lend any real support.

[SwobyJ]

I think the Helius cluster probably does get it's name from the mythological Greek titan (Helius is Latin for Helios). So many other astronomical features (including Andromeda itself) are named from Greek mythology.
 
I'm not sure about looking for a deeper meaning though. Being the Greek version of Sol, after what our own system is named for, is interesting but probably as far as it goes. Other than that I guess there is the interaction between Odysseus and Helios, where Helios appeals to Zeus after Odysseus' crew slaughter some sacred animals for food. And so Zeus blasts Odysseus' ship apart. I did feel the best way of moving to Andromeda would be a wormhole, similar to the way Odysseus' ship is blown away in the Odyssey. But I think the connection is a bit too obscure though to lend any real support.

Haha, yeah, none of this is solid evidence for anything.

But that's some good stuff - I intentionally did not get deeper into the mythos in the fear that I'd get something wrong.

I can imagine taking a portal with a ship and crashing it on an 'island' planet.

I admit some of my 'deeper meanings' are intersections with other actual personal theories and ideas I have.

I can imagine the next game to get many more Greek/Roman references going on. Not that ME1-ME3 didn't have those, but I still would have said it had at least a little more of a Christian tone than anything polytheistic (exceptions being things like Cerberus).

If a story involves 'ascending into godhood', it is usually (IMO) safer to give it more of a polytheistic tone than a "TRYING TO PLAY *GOD* (the one god)" deal.

Here I go interpreting things too much again 

[Majestic Jazz]

This is what happens when a month prior to E3, all of our ME4 info has come from speculations and leaks.

[x Raizer x]

This is what happens when a month prior to E3, all of our ME4 info has come from speculations and leaks.

 

I bet Bioware must love this time period.  To see what estimations and assumptions fans have, and how well they match with actual game information.

[NM_Che56]

I don't see how any of this has any connection to Helius. To attribute these themes to Helius is a major stretch. And the names of solar systems have never had much, if any bearing on the stories therein in Mass Effect.

This seems to be a trend with you. LOL. EVERYTHING is a "stretch"

[Steppenwolf]

This seems to be a trend with you. LOL. EVERYTHING is a "stretch"

Only when things are a stretch, like OP's theory and yours.

[NM_Che56]

Only when things are a stretch, like OP's theory and yours.

Do you have a theory?