28 réponses à ce sujet

[camphor]

was it ever explained why someone didn't just mass relay themselves back and forth (moving faster then the speed of light especially orders of magnitude faster would cause you to move back in time) to warn Me1 shepard of all the crazy? i will leave it to suspension of disbelief but it kinda invalidates all of Mass effects story now that i think about it they had time travel the whole time 

[Anacronian Stryx]

Whoever told that by moving faster than light by orders of magnitude would cause you to move back in time was lying.

[Heimerdinger]

 (moving faster then the speed of light especially orders of magnitude faster would cause you to move back in time)

 

That doesn't happen. Maybe it does with wormholes, but that's another topic.

[camphor]

Whoever told that by moving faster than light by orders of magnitude would cause you to move back in time was lying.

Time travel to the past in physics[edit]

Time travel to the past is theoretically allowed using the following methods:^[30]

• Traveling faster than the speed of light
• The use of cosmic strings and black holes
• Wormholes and Alcubierre drive

Via faster-than-light (FTL) travel[edit]

If one were able to move information or matter from one point to another faster than light, then according to thetheory of relativity, there would be some inertial frame of reference in which the signal or object was moving backward in time. This is a consequence of the relativity of simultaneity in special relativity, which says that in some cases different reference frames will disagree on whether two events at different locations happened "at the same time" or not, and they can also disagree on the order of the two events. Technically, these disagreements occur when the spacetime interval between the events is 'space-like', meaning that neither event lies in the future light cone of the other.^[31] If one of the two events represents the sending of a signal from one location and the second event represents the reception of the same signal at another location, then as long as the signal is moving at the speed of light or slower, the mathematics of simultaneity ensures that all reference frames agree that the transmission-event happened before the reception-event.^[31]

However, in the case of a hypothetical signal moving faster than light, there would always be some frames in which the signal was received before it was sent, so that the signal could be said to have moved backward in time. And since one of the two fundamental postulates of special relativity says that the laws of physics should work the same way in every inertial frame, then if it is possible for signals to move backward in time in any one frame, it must be possible in all frames. This means that if observer A sends a signal to observer B which moves FTL (faster than light) in A's frame but backward in time in B's frame, and then B sends a reply which moves FTL in B's frame but backward in time in A's frame, it could work out that A receives the reply before sending the original signal, a clear violation of causality in every frame. An illustration of such a scenario using spacetime diagrams can be found here.^[32] The scenario is sometimes referred to as a tachyonic antitelephone.

According to special relativity, it would take an infinite amount of energy to accelerate a slower-than-light object to the speed of light. Although relativity does not forbid the theoretical possibility of tachyons which move faster than light at all times, when analyzed using quantum field theory, it seems that it would not actually be possible to use them to transmit information faster than light.^[33] There is also no widely agreed-upon evidence for the existence of tachyons; the faster-than-light neutrino anomaly had opened the possibility that neutrinos might be tachyons, but the results of the experiment were found to be invalid upon further analysis.

 

 

heres a snip from an artical from live science 

 

There are a lot of barriers to approaching light speed, much less breaking it, but if you could, you could theoretically experience time running backward, Kaku said. Here's how it would work: As you approach light speed, you might time goes slower in the outside world than it does for you. When you hit light speed, the outside world goes so slow in relation to you that it stops (again, in relation to you; people in the outside world feel as if time is the same as always). So if you could push past that speed limit, the outside world would be so slow as to be moving backward in relation to you.

 

maybe i am misinterpreting it but seems to me time slows to all but a stop and then begins to go backwards once you break FTL

 

if we have any sciency types that want to correct me please do as i admit i could be misinterpreting the text

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Time would only go backwards in the space that is travelling faster than light. The rest of the universe continues as normal since it is going slower than the speed of light.  

[camphor]

Time would only go backwards in the space that is travelling faster than light. The rest of the universe continues as normal since it is going slower than the speed of light.  

correct so you could leave travel to something immediately turn around and come back and see yourself leaving do to causality, which is time travel, i realise this is theoretical physics here we go anderson institute. http://www.andersoni...ght-travel.html

its not if this would happen but if it was explained.

 

listen i realise its hard to grasp but you have to understand faster then light travel defies physics as something that hits faster then light has infinite mass (thus mass effect fields which is space magic for making ftl realistic) thus needing infinite energy to power it. going from 99.9% the speed of light to 100.1% the speed of light breaks the special theory of relativity, in theory you could expand space behind the object and shrink space in front of it causing the object to appear as if moving faster then light, without actually moving that quickly but i don't know if thats possible or even if it is i don't know if it matters when dealing with time dialation

[Hanako Ikezawa]

correct so you could leave travel to something immediately turn around and come back and see yourself leaving do to causality, which is time travel, i realise this is theoretical physics here we go anderson institute. http://www.andersoni...ght-travel.html

its not if this would happen but if it was explained.

No. You would be able to see the past if going faster than light, but would not be able to interact with it since once you leave the FTL space or the space slows down to below the speed of light so you can interact with it time rushes forward to catch up with you.

 

For example, if you were going twice the speed of light you'd be able to see the past, but when you slowed down you'd find that while you were traveling for a year at twice the speed of light, the rest of the universe went forward about seven months. So you'd be five months in the relative past, but not in the past as in before you left. 

[Iakus]

That doesn't happen. Maybe it does with wormholes, but that's another topic.

Well, someone dropped off a load of thermal clips on Aiea 

[camphor]

No. You would be able to see the past if going faster than light, but would not be able to interact with it since once you leave the FTL space or the space slows down to below the speed of light so you can interact with it time rushes forward to catch up with you.

 

i am totally good with this explanation do happen to have a link to an article cant seem to find confirmation

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, someone dropped off a load of thermal clips on Aiea 

That can be explained by: 

Spoiler

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No. You would be able to see the past if going faster than light, but would not be able to interact with it since once you leave the FTL space or the space slows down to below the speed of light so you can interact with it time rushes forward to catch up with you.

 

i am totally good with this explanation do happen to have a link to an article cant seem to find confirmation

http://www.physlink....perts/ae283.cfm

[Arcian]

was it ever explained why someone didn't just mass relay themselves back and forth (moving faster then the speed of light especially orders of magnitude faster would cause you to move back in time) to warn Me1 shepard of all the crazy? i will leave it to suspension of disbelief but it kinda invalidates all of Mass effects story now that i think about it they had time travel the whole time 

Have you tried to, you know, read the codex?

[camphor]

http://www.physlink....perts/ae283.cfm

your article simply proved the point that ftl cannot exist (which i mentioned) the second response was talking about the fact that having an imaginary number causes an unquantifiable outcome to quote

This region I call Imaginary Time since it is some weird time with an imaginary unit attached to it (so I don't really know what this time means.) 

 

Tachyonic antitelephone

http://en.wikipedia....c_antitelephone

 

a thought experiment about faster then light travel done by einstein im very very confused thus is physics thanks you for indulging me though i know this conversation probably isnt going anywere but i am interested none the less

 

to the poster above me, no the codex is huge and to sift through it would be a waste of time because the fact is the answer isnt real life changing and i will forget i even asked this question the second i leave for work. my life neither depends or is effected by a video game shocking i know. to answer your next question i am bored and bsn is more entertaining then a trilogy i have beaten countless times and since uninstalled from my computer.

[Arcian]

No. You would be able to see the past if going faster than light, but would not be able to interact with it since once you leave the FTL space or the space slows down to below the speed of light so you can interact with it time rushes forward to catch up with you.

 

For example, if you were going twice the speed of light you'd be able to see the past, but when you slowed down you'd find that while you were traveling for a year at twice the speed of light, the rest of the universe went forward about seven months. So you'd be five months in the relative past, but not in the past as in before you left. 

That's not how it works in Mass Effect (if that's what you were implying). The field raises the speed of light within itself by a factor of several thousands, meaning ships can travel several times the universal speed of light without exceeding the local speed of light. This is because the Mass Effect fields only alters mass within the field, not the energy. Due to the mass-energy equivalence, in order for mass to change when energy stays the same, the constant c has to change, which is what makes FTL velocities possible.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's not how it works in Mass Effect (if that's what you were implying). The field raises the speed of light within itself by a factor of several thousands, meaning ships can travel several times the universal speed of light without exceeding the local speed of light. This is because the Mass Effect fields only alters mass within the field, not the energy. Due to the mass-energy equivalence, in order for mass to change when energy stays the same, the constant c has to change, which is what makes FTL velocities possible.

No, I was just showing that even with going faster than the speed of light a person cannot go back to a time before they left.

[Podge 90]

This thread

[theflyingzamboni]

The thing is, mass relays make no sense. They're supposed to work by dropping a ship's mass to 0 so that it can somehow make an instantaneous jump. But of course that make no sense. Photons have no mass, and that obviously doesn't allow them to move infinitely faster than light. And I think we can safely assume by the fact that we can jump all over the galaxy on rush missions and faff about solar systems at FTL indicates that the whole "moving at relativistic velocities dilates time" phenomenon does not apply in the ME universe. It just makes storytelling too difficult, unless it's like The Forever War or something. So basically . It was there all along.

[Cameron Star]

I'm pretty sure the theory is that moving faster than the speed of light allows you to travel forwards in time, not backwards.

[Helios969]

I'm pretty sure the theory is that moving faster than the speed of light allows you to travel forwards in time, not backwards.

Traveling near or "at" superluminal motions does, but beyond one would move backwards through time.  The tachyon particle (purely a mathematical anomaly that falls out of string theory) exists only above the speed of light and moves backward through time.  As with particles such as protons, accelerating them to the speed of light would require infinite energy; the same holds true of tachyons, slowing them to the speed of light would require infinite energy.

 

As far as this particular topic goes I have no idea how eezo and mass effect tech compensates for this.  I avoid codex on such matters since ME is closer to science fantasy than rooted in anything like real science.  Basically I try not to think about it too hard because it ends up ruining the experience.

[Cameron Star]

I tend not to think too hard about anything in the ME games because it would ruin the experience otherwise.

 

I'll have to read more on this ftl time travel, wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff, although it usually just goes right over my head.

[Sion1138]

Time travel is one of the things I personally would have liked as the basis for the next game.

 

Because then it would have been a prequel and a sequel.

[Belgrade_Phantom]

There is no such a thing like time travel couse there is no time , the time as we know it is just a human fabrication how people would organize their lifes easier.

We can not travel through the time then we can travel only through the space.
For example If we could travel through the time that means that we could go back in any moment from the past and that means that every moment is eternal and actually never passed , like a video tape (VHS) , that practically means like that every moment of our existence is recorded somewhere and stored into some "archive" and U can manipulate with time like with a VH casette , U can rewind the tape 10 or 20 minutes in back , 30 minutes in forward.......and u can reach any moment of the film on tape  that U want , so that does not seems to me realistic.

So If U travelled by FTL speed , that just means that U would be able to pass longer distance in space in shorter period of "time" .

[Arcian]

I'm pretty sure the theory is that moving faster than the speed of light allows you to travel forwards in time, not backwards.

No, that's moving close to the speed of light. Going past the speed of light makes physics go bonkers. Not necessarily backwards-in-time-bonkers, mind you.

[Display Name Owner]

Explained? It wasn't even mentioned...

 

Theoretical physics aside, best to just accept that the rules of ME are that FTL=/=any time antics. Still, maybe in the next few centuries people will look back and say "can't believe those ignorant fools thought you could just travel between planets without a chrono-regulator. Idiots!"

[AlanC9]

The key point is that in ME you never actually go superluminal. The way the mass effect drives work is by raising the speed of light within the field.