1001 réponses à ce sujet

[Boost32]

Yes he did.

I remember the post, he said he didn't saw the need of marriage representation and doesn't see how it was comparable to minority representation.
While he was a d*ck, he didn't write what you did.

[Panda]

Those who complained were a loud minority, just see in the forum the amount of people who likes Cass and Josie.
Never said she should be a extra, but leave male players who doesn't want to romance a trans woman with only one choice is bad.

 

They are loud minority on BSN, but I'm not sure if they sadly are minority when thinking of whole straight male audience. Well hopefully I'm wrong ^^

 

The thing is that there is LI's always that you don't like so having one LI transgender would be just one aspect that you might not like so I don't think it should be big problem though it'd be if Bioware did that.

[Lebanese Dude]

Fascinating thread.

[Abraham_uk]

Part 1 of our interview is here!

 

We talked to David Gaider, lead writer on the Dragon Age franchise...he dropped some big bombs

 

But lets start......with how the writer treats sexual diversity in his games

 

 

 

Sorry. Just saw the trailer at the beginning of that video.

 

"They'll retain what others won't. Their humanity." What? What about Elves, Qunari and Dwarves.

For a studio trying to be inclusive this is down right shocking.

 

Next time I play Dragon Age, I'll be pick the Social Justice Warrior class.

[Seraphim24]

I remember the post, he said he didn't saw the need of marriage representation and doesn't see how it was comparable to minority representation.
While he was a d*ck, he didn't write what you did.

 

Allan gets a lot of things wrong, but this one is a bit subtle.

 

First of all, people that are completely invested in monogamy and marriage and such are a minority, period. Most people are not monogamous and faithful, period. I don't care how many people get married, how many people are married in the sense of marriage? Not nearly as many.

 

Second, it's critically important to divide people who are gamers or geeky or something and interested in monogamy and marriage and such, from people who are interested in monogamy and marriage generally.

 

I'm not saying this to be critical, but the number of people who are both gamers (or geeky whatever) (in the general sense, Mario, watch some anime, whatever) and marriage oriented is extremely small, it dwarfs, completely, the numbers of LGBTQ in terms of minority status. It's like, literally 50 people across all countries.

 

In other words, he fails to consider that those who play games sometimes like things about games that you can't find in other media such as movies that have romantic marriage based relationships, which is in fact, completely true.

 

You can tell this simply from the fraction of media that actually has both extremely committed partners/situation and is a video game or similar, it practically doesn't even exist at all, to be clear.

 

Heck how many video games have marriage? Zero, essentially. Maybe LGBTQ is underrepresented, but they at least have, well, Dragon Age right?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I remember the post, he said he didn't saw the need of marriage representation and doesn't see how it was comparable to minority representation.
While he was a d*ck, he didn't write what you did.

I'm not referring to his post on the thread. I'm referring to the PM he sent me. 

[Shechinah]

Heck how many video games have marriage? Zero, essentially. Maybe LGBTQ is underrepresented, but they at least have, well, Dragon Age right?

 

I'd disagree since I've seen a share of games that have marriage but you may mean that in a specific category and not in the broad, overall sense of games? If so, you may want to rephrase that to avoid misunderstandings.
 

[Boost32]

They are loud minority on BSN, but I'm not sure if they sadly are minority when thinking of whole straight male audience. Well hopefully I'm wrong ^^
 
The thing is that there is LI's always that you don't like so having one LI transgender would be just one aspect that you might not like so I don't think it should be big problem though it'd be if Bioware did that.

I frequent other gaming forums, the only one were I saw people complaining and saying "Cassandra looks like a man" is here. But the majority wanted to romance Morrigan or Leliana.

Its not about not liking a LI, the majority doesn't want a trans woman, why not make 2 cis woman and a trans? It would be respectful to both parties. Doing only one cis would open a can of worms and I'm betting very few peoples would romance a trans woman.

[Dieb]

I'm all for monogamy (tried it the other way; doesn't really work for me). It's in more the marriage part that I'm lost. I get the IRL argument for it (there are legal benefits and all) but does the ceremony itself really matter to people in characterising their relationship? Again, genuinely asking.

 

Marriage is a beautiful and silly thing.

 

And yes, there is a strong psychological upside to it, not unlike the "locking in" of a romance in BioWare games. Why do you rip off the label on clothes you know you are going to keep? Why do we orchestrate certain moments for ourselves, with no practical gain from it? It seems to me we're is built to create these singular situations of theatrical beauty, marriage is just one of them. It is not more or less "silly" than having a picnic on your first date instead of eating somewhere much more "convenient".

 

Here's the kicker though, I'm divorced. I've been married once, yet contrary to popular believe, marriage itself wasn't what ruined our relationship - it just gets harder to overlook certain things once you've tied the knot.

 

I like the notion of making a commitment and a certain type of sacrifice for a person, but I also believe it is silly to force one another to live in misery for all eternity. I think marriage is just as important as divorce is, too. And deciding to end a marriage when the time as come, isn't easy either. Both requires courage and a readiness to commit to an ongoing lifestyle from there on in. Those things are scary, yet highly rewarding.

[Seraphim24]

I'd disagree since I've seen a share of games that have marriage but you may mean that in a specific category and not in the broad, overall sense of games? If so, you may want to rephrase that to avoid misunderstandings.
 

 

Which ones? I'd check them out, I mentioned FFXIV. There are definitely games that revolve around strong single commitments, like for example like I don't know... FFIX with Zidane and Garnet, which don't generally feature lots of sex or sexual activity.

 

In terms of it being a central theme and focus though? I can't say anything really comes to mind.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Its not about not liking a LI, the majority doesn't want a trans woman, why not make 2 cis woman and a trans? It would be respectful to both parties. Doing only one cis would open a can of worms and I'm betting very few peoples would romance a trans woman.

I agree. While the whole "Cassandra is a man" arguments are silly, if they made Mae as one of the two LIs for straight males then the arguments will only be worse and actually kind of justifiable, since Mae does have the body of a biological male so they would have one biological woman to romance. But if there were three LIs for straight men, then the problem would vanish(though there will still be complaints) since they still have options. 

[Panda]

I frequent other gaming forums, the only one were I saw people complaining and saying "Cassandra looks like a man" is here. But the majority wanted to romance Morrigan or Leliana.

Its not about not liking a LI, the majority doesn't want a trans woman, why not make 2 cis woman and a trans? It would be respectful to both parties. Doing only one cis would open a can of worms and I'm betting very few peoples would romance a trans woman.

 

More the merrier I guess ^^

 

I don't really see why it should be problem to have one cis and one transwoman though when there is so much other things to look at than her being trans, but again 3 would be safer, not without complaints and noise, but at least safer.

[TheRatPack55]

Allan gets a lot of things wrong, but this one is a bit subtle.

 

First of all, people that are completely invested in monogamy and marriage and such are a minority, period. Most people are not monogamous and faithful, period. I don't care how many people get married, how many people are married in the sense of marriage? Not nearly as many.

 

Second, it's critically important to divide people who are gamers or geeky or something and interested in monogamy and marriage and such, from people who are interested in monogamy and marriage generally.

 

I'm not saying this to be critical, but the number of people who are both gamers (or geeky whatever) (in the general sense, Mario, watch some anime, whatever) and marriage oriented is extremely small, it dwarfs, completely, the numbers of LGBTQ in terms of minority status. It's like, literally 50 people across all countries.

 

In other words, he fails to consider that those who play games sometimes like things about games that you can't find in other media such as movies that have romantic marriage based relationships, which is in fact, completely true.

 

You can tell this simply from the fraction of media that actually has both extremely committed partners/situation and is a video game or similar, it practically doesn't even exist at all, to be clear.

 

Heck how many video games have marriage? Zero, essentially. Maybe LGBTQ is underrepresented, but they at least have, well, Dragon Age right?

 

Wow.. I keep trying to dissuade myself from thinking I'm a special snowflake... But apparently I'm a special snowflake. _{One of only 50 people across the world? Really? I should get a prize.}

 

Skyrim has marriage.

[Panda]

I agree. While the whole "Cassandra is a man" arguments are silly, if they made Mae as one of the two LIs for straight males then the arguments will only be worse and actually kind of justifiable, since Mae does have the body of a biological male so they would have one biological woman to romance. But if there were three LIs for straight men, then the problem would vanish since they still have options. 

 

Hmm, I think transioned trans-character would encounter less resistance. At least what I observed from some forums about Erica (from Catherine), many players found her attractive, because she has female body regardless of being trans.

 

 

 

Though in I doubt transition is thing in DA, Krem's dialogue suggested that it might be possible via magic, but if Magister like Mae hasn't done it I doubt it's possible or at least something that wouldn't be experiemental and potentially dangerous.

[Shechinah]

Which ones? I'd check them out, I mentioned FFXIV. There are definitely games that revolve around strong single commitments, like for example like I don't know... FFIX with Zidane and Garnet, which don't generally feature lots of sex or sexual activity.

 

In terms of it being a central theme and focus though? I can't say anything really comes to mind.

 

"Star Wars; The Old Republic" - SPOILERS- interestingly enough features marriages that the player can engage in; My Sith Warrior married the twi'lek companion, Vette and the proposal was adorable! Granted, the marriage itself happened off-screen but they are still legally married in-game and a badass battle couple. The same goes for my Jedi Knight and the human companion, Doc and that's two of the classes that can marry. The Bounty Hunter one is another that can with either a male companion or a female companion. The aforementioned Sith Warrior class features a marriage with a darkside companion.

 

As a note; Vette promised her mother that she wouldn't be with anyone until her marriage so that romance is also an example of someone waiting until marriage which can also include the player if they want to since they can turn down propositions from other NPCs and headcanon further back.

 

I'll see if I can edit in some names since I know there are but most were not games I was interested in because of what kind of games they were so I have to find the games. Are you specifically interested in games in which the protagonist marries or games in which it is a central theme or focus?  
 

[Boost32]

(snip)

Don't worry, I dislike the guy too but I never saw him writing what Hanako did.

I'm not referring to his post on the thread. I'm referring to the PM he sent me.

I don't know what he wrote to you, but if you are not going to tell us, you should not keep using it as a argumento.

[KainD]

Eventually, we'll need a transgender romance/companion. I like how Bioware isn't afraid to go against the mainstream.

I want my PC to have a line then that clearly explains that she is not sexually attracted to men, but to individuals with a penis.

[Seraphim24]

Wow.. I keep trying to dissuade myself from thinking I'm a special snowflake... But apparently I'm a special snowflake. _{One of only 50 people across the world? Really? I should get a prize.}

 

Skyrim has marriage.

 

What can I say, most (not all) people I know that like anime or Japanese video games, or even western video games (from their comic origins and stuff, not like Tetris), and thus the 2 biggest spheres of gamers and such, care very little for monogamy or marriage.

 

You can find people that are outside the sphere entirely who are, perhaps a bit more frequently, but inside that sphere? Not so much.

 

I don't want to cheat because Skyrim is a decent example, it doesn't really stem from the comic origins though so much as the Hollywood cinematic ones though for the most part, but yeah, it is in there.

 

I'll probably have to form a slightly clearer perspective, there is something here that is extremely rare though, I think the distinction is whether it's like I was alluding to video games coming from comic or manga origins (and thus the kinds of games Bioware makes), as opposed to just any random mobile game you come across.

 

"Star Wars; The Old Republic" - SPOILERS- i
 

 

That's kind of more the example I was thinking of, I'm sure I might enjoy it such a big commitment for MMOs though.

 

 Are you specifically interested in games in which the protagonist marries or games in which it is a central theme or focus?  
 

 

I would say the central theme and focus, honestly I don't get why it is so complicated to just have just a typical one person falls hard for another person in a video game, and it's like the central theme and focus?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't know what he wrote to you, but if you are not going to tell us, you should not keep using it as a argumento.

But I did tell you what he wrote. 

[Boost32]

More the merrier I guess ^^

I don't really see why it should be problem to have one cis and one transwoman though when there is so much other things to look at than her being trans, but again 3 would be safer, not without complaints and noise, but at least safer.

We both know what the problem is.
Dorian is a cool person, still doesn't mean I want to romance him, I know there is a lot more about Mae than her being trans, but she being trans make me not want to romance her, might want to be her friend but not more.

[KaiserShep]

I'd really like to encounter Mae in person in a game, but there'd have to be a good reason for a magister of her position to become a follower of our PC.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

"Star Wars; The Old Republic" - SPOILERS- interestingly enough features marriages that the player can engage in; My Sith Warrior married the twi'lek companion, Vette and the proposal was adorable! Granted, the marriage itself happened off-screen but they are still legally married in-game and a badass battle couple. The same goes for my Jedi Knight and the human companion, Doc.

 

As a note; Vette promised her mother that she wouldn't be with anyone until her marriage so that romance is also an example of someone waiting until marriage which can also include the player if they want to since they can turn down propositions from other NPCs and headcanon further back.

 

I'll see if I can edit in some names since I know there are but most were not games I was interested in because of what kind of games they were so I have to find the games. Are you specifically interested in games in which the protagonist marries or games in which it is a central theme or focus?  
 

So the one game of Bioware's that does have that is the one game I can't play. Figures. 

[Shechinah]

I'd really like to encounter Mae in person in a game, but there'd have to be a good reason for a magister of her position to become a follower of our PC.

If we are going to Tevinter in DA:4 as speculated then she could be just a major NPC which would allow us to meet her in person and not have to write her in as a companion. She could be involved in the plot still.

[Boost32]

But I did tell you what he wrote.

Not that I don't believe you, because I don't like him too, but you didn't tell what he wrote, show the complete PM with the right context.
Posting like you did, looks like your interpretation not what he wrote.

[KaiserShep]

That I'd like to see, and Tevinter in general. BioWare needs to step up its game and offer a proper urban environment. I love the way the environments look in Inquisition, but I've had my fill of woods n shite.