1001 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

So the one game of Bioware's that does have that is the one game I can't play. Figures. 

 

You might like FFXIV, here are some pictures

 

 

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

You might like FFXIV, I'd post some pictures

Unable to play it. 

[TheJediSaint]

That I'd like to see, and Tevinter in general. BioWare needs to step up its game and offer a proper urban environment. I love the way the environments look in Inquisition, but I've had my fill of woods n shite.

Urban adventure, I must have it!

[Panda]

We both know what the problem is.
Dorian is a cool person, still doesn't mean I want to romance him, I know there is a lot more about Mae than her being trans, but she being trans make me not want to romance her, might want to be her friend but not more.

 

I guess I know what the problem is, but it doesn't mean I understand or share it though ^^;

[Uirebhiril]

Having Mae as a temporary companion for a plotline would be awesome. I don't see her as being a potential LI though. Maybe a few flirts? I'd flirt with Mae!

 

It would be nice to see a transgender LI in the future, but only if it's just part of the character and not put in to be the transgender LI. It might take awhile for the right character to come up and fit as such, but it's bound to happen. I'd certainly not have a problem rolling a character for their romance.

[JadeDragon]

If Mae is added as a romance then i agree there should be 2 cis female romance options. And Mae relationship can be for players who decide they want to go that route if not then well you have two females to choose from so there shouldn't be a complaint(even though there will be). I suppose it'll be similar to DAI how females had a chance of 4 romance options so I don't see how adding a trans as a extra romance option for straight males will be a problem while its a risk if any company is being progressive and can do it right i think bioware can.

[Seraphim24]

 

 

Unable to play it. 

 

 

Oh, well I won't inquire as to why, I think you would like it though.

 

By the way just to illustrate this point, I was posting in a thread on Polygon about issues of sex and the desire for having monogamous relationships and removed from the issue of casual sex and promiscuous partners and it was literally shut down after hearing about 30 pages of vitriol of people saying I wasn't for some reason getting sexual empowerment and a heap of other stuff (even though I said many times I respected their preferences).

 

 It is extremely rare, as I said, people like me are often severely misunderstood by virtually everyone almost intantly.

[Boost32]

Oh, well I won't inquire as to why, I think you would like it though.

He plays on his Xbox =P

[Seraphim24]

He plays on his Xbox =P

 

A lot of FFs are really romantic and traditional in that respect IMO, although never on Xbox it's true.

[TheRatPack55]

 

If anyone wants me to prove that people like me are rare I can have any thread anywhere in the gaming sphere shut down and generate hundreds of comments at will, and not for any other reason than me just sharing my honest opinions and desires. It is extremely rare, as I said, and can suffer discrimination pretty much instantly and actively from literally anywhere and quite easily.

 

Internet comments are not a credible source of information on social trends, though. That's people saying whatever cause nobody's gonna care anyway.

That said, I feel like I'm a relic of the Victorian times myself sometimes... 

[Seraphim24]

Internet comments are not a credible source of information on social trends, though. That's people saying whatever cause nobody's gonna care anyway.

That said, I feel like I'm a relic of the Victorian times myself sometimes... 

 

Oh it's not just internet comments, it's experience in all areas of life, you can just tell what people want and how they seek things sexually honestly, it's just something that seems to arise out of the personality. If I had to estimate, I'd say of the 100% of people in like a relationship category age, .5% are totally monogamous victorian, 5% are basically monogamous but probably have sexual activity outside of that context (wife or husband does stuff on the internet for people or something), 5% have more full blown sexual activity that does not include intercourse but is not just with the other person. 30% have at least one partner outside of the normal marriage. 30% have more than one, and then (um math jeez) 30% after that are just poly, and then I don't know what % is left actually.

 

Maybe I'm off, but something like that. It's just you have to factor in all the gray area between monogamous and multiple people, like do some people count oral with one other person outside as multiple people? Because I'd guess a lot (majority) of people fall into those sorts of strange categories Sorry I'm being so graphic by the way.

 

Once you try cross-listing that .5% Pride and Prejudice crowd with something considered different and off-beat like Dragon Age you end up with a very tiny number of people.

[Eterna]

I found this thread hilarious, also Ironic that bunch of dudes which have naked mans in their avatar will ****** so much about this...

 

http://forum.bodybui...php?t=165423231

 

My god I love that forum, my favorite response:

 

Lol you sluthate subhumans are the most pathetic people on the internet. Worse than 4channers (srs). 

A big group of ****** who get together and cry to eachother / feel sorry for their selves and worship David Gandy (LMAO). 

None of you sluthat phaggots will amount to anything in life and will 100% die painfully and alone. Mainly because you're all too mentally weak to handle our first world problems while other people (attractive, average, and unattractive) are easily thriving.

 

[Dieb]

Being attracted to everything attractive is a biological trait, acting on it is a question of integrity. Monogamy is a decision.

 

If anything, what you're implying is that society is growing weary of monogamous relationships, less afraid of the repercussions or the stigma and thus morality may or may not shift in the future.

 

But as I said, everybody makes their decision. Everything we do besides eating and humping is something we made up essentially to pass the time, so I'm not taking "my inherent nature made me do it" from anyone in that matter.

[TheRatPack55]

Oh it's not just internet comments, it's experience in all areas of life, you can just tell what people want and how they seek things sexually honestly, it's just something that seems to arise out of the personality. If I had to estimate, I'd say of the 100% of people in like a relationship category age, .5% are totally monogamous victorian, 5% are basically monogamous but probably have sexual activity outside of that context (wife or husband does stuff on the internet for people or something), 5% have more full blown sexual activity that does not include intercourse but is not just with the other person. 30% have at least one partner outside of the normal marriage. 30% have more than one, and then (um math jeez) 30% after that are just poly, and then I don't know what % is left actually.

 

Maybe I'm off, but something like that. It's just you have to factor in all the gray area between monogamous and multiple people, like do some people count oral with one other person outside as multiple people? Because I'd guess a lot of people fall into those sorts of strange categories. Sorry I'm being so graphic by the way.

 

Once you try cross-listing that .5% Pride and Prejudice crowd with something considered different and off-beat like Dragon Age you end up with a very tiny number of people.

 

You know... I want to say you're overreacting, but I'm introverted and somewhat socially anxious, so what do I know... maybe you're actually right, and that would make me right in all my internal whining that I'm trying to dismiss as personal issues... Anyway, I can't count either  .

 

Either way, sucks for us, and I guess we just have to be happy with whatever scraps we get, if the majority are really as you say, they deserve to get the focus, I guess.

 

_{I can also justify my love of fps games... not much promiscuity there... just shooting.}

[AlanC9]

Oh it's not just internet comments, it's experience in all areas of life, you can just tell what people want and how they seek things sexually honestly, it's just something that seems to arise out of the personality. If I had to estimate, I'd say of the 100% of people in like a relationship category age, .5% are totally monogamous victorian, 5% are basically monogamous but probably have sexual activity outside of that context (wife or husband does stuff on the internet for people or something), 5% have more full blown sexual activity that does not include intercourse but is not just with the other person. 30% have at least one partner outside of the normal marriage. 30% have more than one, and then (um math jeez) 30% after that are just poly, and then I don't know what % is left actually.

 

Those statistics don't match anything I've ever seen.

[BansheeOwnage]

*sigh* Yet another example of Bioware not supporting the marriage mindset. Instead of being married now they are just life partners. 

 

No. I don't want her as a companion. 

If they did, who would she be available to? 

I don't really see how  Bioware would be against marriage. Tons of people are married in DA. I'd like them to add marriage to romances too, but I just don't see that they're against the concept. Also to me, being a life partner and being married are the same thing. I am monogamous, and will effectively be married to someone I love, before or after the ceremony. Sure, that part is fun, but it doesn't change our relationship in any way but legal.

 

Hmm, I think transioned trans-character would encounter less resistance. At least what I observed from some forums about Erica (from Catherine), many players found her attractive, because she has female body regardless of being trans.

 

 

 

Though in I doubt transition is thing in DA, Krem's dialogue suggested that it might be possible via magic, but if Magister like Mae hasn't done it I doubt it's possible or at least something that wouldn't be experiemental and potentially dangerous.

Nah, that's easy. Just use Mirror of Transformation! The trick is finding it, or rather, being found. Only being able to change your face is an ingame limitation, not a lore one. It's described as being able to alter flesh (and obviously bone, just look at what you can do to your face!). I'd have loved to take Krem there if he didn't say he was content as he was.

[Panda]

Nah, that's easy. Just use Mirror of Transformation! The trick is finding it, or rather, being found. Only being able to change your face is an ingame limitation, not a lore one. It's described as being able to alter flesh (and obviously bone, just look at what you can do to your face!). I'd have loved to take Krem there if he didn't say he was content as he was.

 

I think mirror of transformation is not very lore-friendly ^^;

[X Equestris]

Those statistics don't match anything I've ever seen.

They say there are two kinds of statistics: the ones you look up, and the ones you make up. I'm pretty sure those were the latter.

[Seraphim24]

Those statistics don't match anything I've ever seen.

 

Well it's a bit more challenging considering sexual histories and statistics are practically an illegal topic of interest, I'd be curious as to your guesses though. My experience with the handful of truly monogamous people is that they are pretty averse to marriage actually paradoxically, because they can appreciate the true gravity of that kind of committment. Just based on what I see, those people aren't that common at all. Also, based a lot of people float around in the area between monogamy and polyamory quite frequently.

 

You know... I want to say you're overreacting, but I'm introverted and somewhat socially anxious, so what do I know... maybe you're actually right, and that would make me right in all my internal whining that I'm trying to dismiss as personal issues... Anyway, I can't count either  .

 

Either way, sucks for us, and I guess we just have to be happy with whatever scraps we get, if the majority are really as you say, they deserve to get the focus, I guess.

 

_{I can also justify my love of fps games... not much promiscuity there... just shooting.}

 

Hey I like FPS and stuff too, it's more like I like things from different areas that if they were all in the same room they would all hate each other.

 

I mean I was literally just watching Passion of the Christ

 

Passion of the Christ

 

There are some things I like about it, plenty of things I don't like, but some things I like.

 

Now I'm here on a Bioware forum and thinking about playing something like TW3, or thinking about how much fun it was to have Chloe and Max kiss in Life is Strange. It's just a lot of stuff going on at once.

[X Equestris]

I'm not saying this to be critical, but the number of people who are both gamers (or geeky whatever) (in the general sense, Mario, watch some anime, whatever) and marriage oriented is extremely small, it dwarfs, completely, the numbers of LGBTQ in terms of minority status. It's like, literally 50 people across all countries.

So all of those fanfics that feature marriage in a prominent role just suddenly stopped existing? And the people who like them, did they stop existing, too? There are plenty of folks in the fanbases of Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and many other games that value marriage a great deal.

[BansheeOwnage]

I think mirror of transformation is not very lore-friendly ^^;

That may be, but I just wanted to point out that it would work. Since it's there.

[Seraphim24]

So all of those fanfics that feature marriage in a prominent role just suddenly stopped existing? And the people who like them, did they stop existing, too? There are plenty of folks in the fanbases of Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and many other games that value marriage a great deal.

 

Is that so? Well, Mass Effect and so on is pretty unique, first, but second, I think there's a distinction between people who have multiple relationships/partners or something and aspire to be this marriage monogamy ideal, and people who can actually pull that off. I'm talking about people that sort of like, are monogamous, they just, naturally want marriage period, there's no aspiration.

 

Maybe there are some of those people within the fanfic community, I have no way of knowing for sure, and it's entirely possible I'm wrong about them and others but experience dictates they probably fall into the aspirational category (as a matter of statistics and probability). I wouldn't mind if you wanted to point me towards these people to be honest.

 

Of course there are others that simply are the sex outside the primary person and don't have an issue with it and that's fine if that's what they want.

[BansheeOwnage]

I think there's a distinction between people who have multiple relationships/partners or something and aspire to be this marriage monogamy ideal, and people who can actually pull that off. I'm talking about people that sort of like, are monogamous, they just, naturally want marriage period, there's no aspiration.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Also, how can someone naturally want something unnatural? And unnatural =/= bad.

[Seraphim24]

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Also, how can someone naturally want something unnatural? And unnatural =/= bad.

 

What do you mean naturally... oh.. No, I mean naturally want a long term monogamous committed relationship typically associated with the institution of marriage, not that the natural desire was for an institutional framework, which would be impossible.

 

I'm just saying some people are not strictly monogamous but appear like they would like to be, some people wouldn't like to be, they just are, so there's no reason to strive after something they already basically are anyway.

[Capone666]

Hey All,

 

Here is a full transcript of the interview thanks to Heidris:

 

We're speaking with David Gaider - one of the senior writers at Bioware, mind behind Dragon Age, he was lead writer there for many, many years - talking a little bit about the romance options in the entire series and of course a very exciting character in Dragon Age Inquisition.

 

At what point did you make a decision, because you alluded to it earlier, to have different sorts of romances and different sorts of relationships in Origins that weren't available – they were available – but that weren't, as you said, widely accepted in the gaming world? Do you remember that instance and did you feel like it might have been a risky move?

 

It wasn't new to Dragon Age. We've been doing romances for a long time.

 

Yeah, of course.

 

I think they were kind of expected. And we weren't even the first ones to do gay romances. Jade Empire was probably our first. I think Jade Empire was – and I wasn't involved on that project – but I remember hearing about when they made that decision to put it in and I was floored. I mean, I'm gay myself, so I felt it kind of odd when I heard about it, how shocked I was because I just never thought that part of my life had a role to play in work. Like I said, it just wasn't done. I didn't even really consider the idea, so when they made that decision it was like, oh, really?

 

And I think there was a lot of apprehension about what the reaction in the gaming community would be. Because I think a lot of decisions on development teams get made, not based on the developer's personal feelings but their assumptions about the audience. I think that's a lot where the conservatism streak sort of comes from.

 

It's nervousness from the people who have all the money, and they're worried about the risk. And I think it's from the people who make the games that are probably, I would say, lean liberal and [unclear] educated and sort of what they assume their audience will or won't accept. So, when the decision was made for Jade Empire I think there was some apprehension, but I think also an idea that this was something that needed to happen. And I think when Jade Empire went out we were kind of surprised at how it really didn't cause the kind of explosion that we had thought. And I think that made us a lot bolder.

 

But yeah. After that, it was the original Mass Effect. I think that came out before Origins, and there's been a sort of a cultural development in the years since. There's a certain amount of backlash but I think also a certain amount of support as well. And I think what each time we've done that, what has become pretty clear is that from a bottom line standpoint, you could make the argument, I suppose, that if we didn't include that maybe the game would sell more. You could also make an argument that if we didn't include that the game would sell less.

 

We're putting out something that appeals to players who don't traditionally get represented in games, so maybe more of them come to play the games. Maybe it's just enough to make up for the ones that are turned off by that. But, ultimately, it hasn't really affected our sales insofar as we can tell. So, the idea of how commercial a consideration it is kind of goes out the window and we can focus on just doing the right thing.

 

We're doing a bit of a jump here, but since we are on the topic: Explain the character of Krem in Dragon Age Inquisition and how that goes into the natural progression of creating realistic characters that you were just mentioning.

 

We had never really done a transgender character prior to that. I mean, we had a character in Dragon Age Origins – or was it Dragon Age 2? Serendipity. I think that was Dragon Age 2.

 

Yeah. Dragon Age 2.

 

That we had originally intended to be a drag queen from the design perspective. And then I remember we just couldn't really get the appearance for that. So she appeared as a woman, and so I think the interpretation was that she was intended to be transgender. Which wasn't what we had intended but, I mean, authorial intention kind of goes out the window. It's what we put out there.

 

And the thing is, I think, someone, I remember, came to our forums at one point – the BioWare online forums – and complained and said: you know, you do these characters. In Dragon Age Origins you had prostitutes that you said this one's 'male' - and it was in quotes – and then you have Serendipity in DA2, which I read as transgender and also a prostitute and generally used for laughs, right? And it just feels really cheap, don't you think, that that's the only way these characters can appear?

 

And I got to ask Mary Kirby, she's the one that wrote Serendipity. She loved her dearly. And yes, we had used her for laughs. And I think when Mary read that she was like, you know, that is fair. And so that's what she responded on the forums. She said, you know, that is completely fair. That's something we should think about.

 

Because it's not that we couldn't have a Serendipity. I think the thing is that that was our only presentation of that type of character. That was all we had. And when we're talking about representation, if we have, say, a gay character, it's not that the gay character has to be a particular way. It's that if you look at the breath of your presentation, if there's only a very select amount of those characters, or one, then what they are sort of does become a statement.

 

It's like a female character. If the only females you have in your game are all second fiddles, damsels in distress, or very weak characters, then you don't have any breath. It's like, in Dragon Age 2, we have Isabella, who is a very sexualized character. But, she exists in the context of a game that also has Aveline or Meredith. So, if you have some breath in the portrayal, then there is some context.

 

I think that was the thing that resignated with us, is that okay, that is a completely fair statement. We fucked up with – oh, pardon me.

 

It's all right. No worries. This is peer credit. No worries.

 

Okay. We fucked up with Serendipity, so it's like, you know, if the opportunity presents itself, maybe we can think about what we're saying with a transgender character. And there are people out there who would look at that moment as a, oh, now you've limited yourself creatively. I don't look on that as a limitation. It's not a prison.

 

Just because our first idea was let's make this transgender character that's a prostitute and is there for laughs – having a moment to talk about that and thinking about maybe there's some other things we could do is not limitation. It is: just acknowledge that maybe that's a bad idea, or maybe it's just a bad idea to do that all the time. Or maybe we should consider not only what that says to us but what it is saying to our audience. Just the moment of having that conversation is not a limitation. It allows for more creativity.

 

So, Krem is an excellent example because I think originally the character of Krem was supposed to be somebody else. Maybe actually a cameo, I can't remember which, but that didn't work out. So, Patrick Weeks was writing and he became sort of Iron Bull's second in command. And he was just a male mercenary character and it seemed kind of dull.

 

And I think it started with Patrick. I had already made a character called Maevaris Tilani in one of the comics, and he said it would be neat if we could take that on step further and have something in the game. And would it be cool if I made this character transgender?

 

And the team started to discuss it, and we were like, oh! That's not a limitation because the moment he said that it was just like, oh! Well, let's stop and think about that for a moment. And that sort of opened up all new ideas of what that would mean. Well, okay, how would Iron Bull as a member of the Qunari feel about transgender? It led into a conversation about the way the Qunari view gender, which is different from us. And there's a way, we figured, when we wrapped our heads around it, I don't think the Qunari would look on gender the same way we do, not the way that when we've discussed them.

 

And the idea of the Chargers, Iron Bull's mercenary group, they sort of consisted of the other. And not the other as in a threatening or a derogatory sense, but people who had different experiences and who they were said something about Iron Bull. You know what I mean? It became as much about him. So, when Patrick talked about that, it was like, yeah. I was like, go for it. Explore that and see where you can put it. And maybe see if you can find somebody in the transgender community that you can run it by just to make sure you're not doing anything untoward because he was- I think that was as much his idea because he was very concerned about doing something inadvertent.

 

And that's very easy. And you can never do it perfectly. I mean, there's always going to be a way that somebody can sort of turn it in their heads and they're going to interpret it a way that's not going to be what you intended. But that's okay. The purpose of making characters is not make them inoffensive to everyone. I think that's almost impossible. But you want to be careful to not inadvertently says things you don't intend, like with Serendipity.

 

So, he put together a treatment of the character that seemed interesting. It got some interest. We talked to our VO department if they'd be willing to work with that. Because it's like, can we find a transgender voice actor? Possibly – now certainly more than before. But, whether a voice actor, one that is signed up with a voice agent that we can deal with. Is that an option?

 

A lot of hurdles.

 

Yeah, what are the hurdles for doing this? Is it possible that an actor might object to that kind of role? When we started with the gay romances, that was also a concern. We have actor in the booth, say, okay, your character can romance somebody of the same gender, go. And you think, wow, who's going to have a problem with that? More than you'd think.

 

Really?

 

I mean, not even a problem, but that somebody might be uncomfortable with it, and that that would then come across in their acting - especially if they weren't aware that this was a possibility or something. So, it's something you just got to keep in mind. Our VO department, Caroline Livingstone, our VO director, was absolutely enthusiastic about the challenge involved. And, who played Krem? Jennifer-

 

Jennifer Hale.

 

Jennifer Hale, right. She jumped on the idea. She did research. I think her voice performance was fantastic. When I first heard it, knowing Jennifer Hale's voice as well as I do, I could hear it, but I think she did a solid job.

 

I think if we do something like that again, we need – actually, not need. That's a bad word. I think the next step would be to see if we could actually find a transgender performer. I think that should be our first stop, at least to see if that's an option. I don't actually know what the hurdles are. I'm not in VO. I don't do the casting. I just know that wasn't as easy as it might first appear.

 

But the fact that the rest of the team just sort of jumped on it – I think we ultimately made a character that might not be perfect in very sense, but that was indicative of more thought going into the process than we'd used previously. Because I think when mistakes get made it's hardly ever intentional but more often than not is just born of ignorance.