1001 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I struggled my whole life to become who I am and will not return to where I was, even in a video game.

It can be physically impossible for some of us to play male. It would be a shame for her to not be available to the people who care the most about her representation. I couldn't play male to romance Cass and I wouldn't for Mae either. I doubt if I would even be able to play the game, it's that important to me.

I understand your frustration, and I completely agree that the game should be inclusive (and move toward inclusion) for you. But that's an issue from a gender identity point of view - it comes down to how the developers allow you to express your own character. I want to say that in no way do I mean to minimise your experience or give the impression I'm being combative; I just want to understand where you're coming from.

Where I am having difficulty is the idea that Mae's own sexuality should differ to be representative. What is she mean to be representative of? That's what I'm struggling to understand.

When you play as a female protagonist in a Bioware game, the game treats you in a way indistinguishable from any woman. Do you think there are representation issues with Cass being straight? Why is Mae in any way different from Cass, biological gender aside?

[In Exile]

If you create characters to represent someone, you also have the responsibility of not doing those people harm.

Absolutely. But why is Mae being straight harmful?

[Shechinah]

Absolutely. But why is Mae being straight harmful?

Especially since from what I can understand, it is only as romanceable she would be seen as harmful so her being straight in itself does not seem harmful. I may have misunderstood something, though. 

 

[PhroXenGold]

If Mae is representing a group, she's representing straight transexuals. So how is her being a...well...striaght transexual...harming the people she's representing?

[Panda]

Oh, how lovely that would be but I doubt that.

 

I said less, there will be some noise no matter what Bioware does with LI's

 

Also true. So, the simplest way to go about doing this is to not make them romancable. Transgender women, they aren't all the same, they don't have all the same views on this issue, so whatever happens, it's going to offend someone within that group. Simplest way of doing it, is just not including a romance with this character. That way, they (BioWare) can focus on getting transgender right, without the worry of a romance behind it all.

 

However that would mean that no transgender LI's ever and I don't really see that preferable solution either.

[Shechinah]

It's a tough road but I consider Bioware daring enough to try walking it and capable of doing so.

[LightningPoodle]

However that would mean that no transgender LI's ever and I don't really see that preferable solution either.

 

Fair point. So, BioWare could build a character from the ground up, and not import a character already built up within another form of media, and make this character romancable. That way, they can make the character bisexual and build around that. With Mae, it's implied she is straight, right? Changing that isn't exactly sitting right with some people, myself included. With a new character, you don't have to worry about this preconcieved view because... it's new. There's nothing basing your view on this character, so there should be no problem.

[LightningPoodle]

Just as a side note, I want them to do this. I want them to make characters and romances that everyone can enjoy (except bigots - I don't think people should have to go out of their way to cater towards them). I want characters and romances that people from every group under the sun, can find enjoyable and fulfilling, and that no one group (except bigots) feel left out. I just think there are proper ways of going about doing this.

 

That's me done... being here, I'm afriad I will upset someone, and I don't want that.

[Boost32]

I don't think characters, whose sexuality is already established, sexuality should be changed. However in Mae's case there might be some space to move since she is not confirmed as straight yet though it's implied on comics.

In other hand I get Danielle100's point and it would be nice for players who identify with character to be able to romance them without having to play opposite gender.

Bioware might do new transcharacter of cource to romance, but I wonder if having trans character who has already introduced like Krem and Mae would be better, since players have already used to them and there would probaply be less noise about pandering and Bioware making trans character just for romance.

The only introduced characters who are trans are Krem, Mae and Serendipity.
Krem can be killed so its rule him out (hopefully only Leliana can get ressurected), Serendipity was a joke character and I doubt she will return, so it leaves only Mae if they want a returning char.

[In Exile]

However that would mean that no transgender LI's ever and I don't really see that preferable solution either.

I said this before but I think we're at least one cycle of Bioware games away from that level of acceptance in the wider social consciousness to avoid every facet of the internet being overwhelmed by virulent transphobia. 

[In Exile]

The only introduced characters who are trans are Krem, Mae and Serendipity.
Krem can be killed so its rule her out (hopefully only Leliana can get ressurected), Serendipity was a joke character and I doubt she will return, so it leaves only Mae if they want a returning char.

 

According to Bioware, Serendipity wasn't a transgendered character, but rather just in drag. They still failed miserably in DA2, but still. That's their official stance. 

[AresKeith]

However that would mean that no transgender LI's ever and I don't really see that preferable solution either.

 

I can see them doing it in the future, but I think they'll go with a companion only first before going a full romance 

[Owlfruit Potion]

Oof, yeah, if Maevaris is a companion in DA4 I had mixed feelings about her being romanceable because while I would totally make a PC for her, I didn't want to witness the transphobic BS that some straight men would inevitably bring up if she's one of the 2 non-lesbian female options in a 2x2x2 situation, and if they try to avoid that by making her an extra option like Cullen/Solas/Harding, some people would probably see that as insulting on BioWare's part (implying she's not "good enough" to be one of the core options). But I hadn't even considered how much it would suck if trans women have to play a guy to romance her (and it is possible that she's straight, given that in one of her WT missions she gives candy to the female advisors but a scented handkerchief to Cullen). Maybe it's best if she's not over Thorold. :\

 

EDIT: Or best if she's not actually straight, anyway. Candy vs. handkerchiefs is hardly a neon "I'm straight" sign. (the Fade thing does seem more conclusive but I don't think the comics are necessarily canon?)

 

ADDITIONAL EDIT: And to be clear, these are just my 2 cents as a bystander. Obviously if BioWare considers a romanceable trans character in the future I hope they can find a way to get input from their trans fans and put that feedback as the priority.

[Shechinah]

The only introduced characters who are trans are Krem, Mae and Serendipity.
Krem can be killed so its rule her out (hopefully only Leliana can get ressurected), Serendipity was a joke character and I doubt she will return, so it leaves only Mae if they want a returning char.

Oh, Krem identifies as male. I think Serendipity would be a very controversial return considering I seem to remember people did not take too well to her though I'm not sure if she was intended as a transgender character or as non-transgender drag queen. The Wikipedia refers to Serendipity with feminine pronouns and as a drag queen so I'm unsure.    

[Dieb]

They can mess up everything if they try.

 

They will isolate everyone if they don't.

 

If it were me, I'd rather have the option to be annoyed, than the certainty. If there is a possibility there for me to finally feel included, I want them to try their goddamn best, and I definitely would not want either perfection or continue to play absolutely unrepresented. Jolee, Jacob, Isabela and Vivienne aren't exactly BioWare's most popular companions, but hey, they're there, they represent whether they're enjoyable or not, and they give me the feeling they belong into the world by just existing.

 

*twirls and holsters race card* But seriously.

[The Elder King]

Oof, yeah, if Maevaris is a companion in DA4 I had mixed feelings about her being romanceable because while I would totally make a PC for her, I didn't want to witness the transphobic BS that some straight men would inevitably bring up if she's one of the 2 non-lesbian female options in a 2x2x2 situation, and if they try to avoid that by making her an extra option like Cullen/Solas/Harding, some people would probably see that as insulting on BioWare's part (implying she's not "good enough" to be one of the core options). But I hadn't even considered how much it would suck if trans women have to play a guy to romance her (and it is possible that she's straight, given that in one of her WT missions she gives candy to the female advisors but a scented handkerchief to Cullen). Maybe it's best if she's not over Thorold. :\

Cullen and Solas Are on the same level of the others Though. They weren't just planned at first because they didn't have the resources.

[Owlfruit Potion]

Cullen and Solas Are on the same level of the others Though. They weren't just planned at first because they didn't have the resources.

I know, I've played both.  (Well, I'd argue about Solas, but I get what you mean.) I just mean if men and/or women interested in women had "extra" options in DA4 the way women interested in men had "extra" options in DAI.

[LightningPoodle]

Really poodle, it's for my benefit that a trans women should be non romancable, that's bull. We're no different than any other group, every group has differing views. Yes, even straight males, how many differ on Cass.

 

I'm saying this character. This character already has a backstory. If you don't want to p*ss of fans, you don't mess with that backstory. If you want to make them romancable, then it needs to fall within the guidelines of that already concieved backstory, or at least provide a damn good reason to go against it, such as developing that backstory even further (which when dealing with sexuality, can become messy and insulting). I'm not saying don't include a transgender romance. I'm saying, don't change this character to fit that transgender romance. Make another character that doesn't have an established history. No problem there.

[Boost32]

Oh, Krem identifies as male. I think Serendipity would be a very controversial return considering I seem to remember people did not take too well to her though I'm not sure if she was intended as a transgender character or as non-transgender drag queen. The Wikipedia refers to Serendipity with feminine pronouns and as a drag queen so I'm unsure.

Sorry, I forget about it, wasnt trying to insult Krem, its just her voice i so iconic that I have difficult to see her as a male.
But I shall edit my post.

[Shechinah]

But they represent different things; One is sexual identities amongst other things while the other is gender identity which can have all of the aforementioned sexual identities.  

[AresKeith]

Sorry, I forget about it, wasnt trying to insult Krem, its just her voice i so iconic that I have difficult to see her as a male.
But I shall edit my post.

 

Dat Hale voice lol