54 réponses à ce sujet

[katerinafm]

It was quite odd how the Black emporium was delayed so much and even had beta programs for it. Since it's main feature was the mirror of transformation, people hoping or coming to the conclusion that it might have added new hairstyles to the package wasn't so far fetched.

 

But if hairstyles etc were a thing that was going to happen, the devs and description for the dlc that appeared days before it became available would have definitely advertised it since it was a thing people wanted. So when hairstyles were not mentioned it should have become obvious that it wasn't the case.

[KBomb]

I was certainly hoping the Black Emporium was going to contain more hairstyles and armors that varied in appearance. That was my hope though and I can't hold Bioware accountable for not putting those things in there. They didn't advertise or promise it. Still, I hope they will consider adding them later on. 

[AlanC9]

We've received communication about new hair and outfits? If I missed that, my apologies, and I'd appreciate any links so that I may read up on the update.

The point was that Bio communicated about the BE but never mentioned new hair and outfits. If new hair and outfits had been in the DLC they would have been mentioned -- the whole point of talking about a new DLC is to raise people's interest in it, so you mention the good things that are in it. Therefore, anyone who read Bio's communications and still expected new hair and outfits was, bluntly, a fool.

But you knew that already.

[Dieb]

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Oh.. I don't know... the supposed fact that Bio is reading the Feeback thread and read "give me more hairstyles"  or the word "armours" more than once?

 

Nope, that's too much to expect. However, they did go out of their way to spend time and resources on maintaining the DAI artistic themes with the DLC.  And, that folks, is called prioritizing what is neccessary from the mundane or even throwing us a bone.

 

I hope you realize that what you're being so condescending about is new ways to do your character's hair.

 

I waited three games to get actual afro curled hair (commonly referred to as the "buzzcut overkill" in DAI), rather than just bald or cornrolls (That's 1. Read "one"), and I didn't throw a passive aggressive tantrum.

[Winged Silver]

The point was that Bio communicated about the BE but never mentioned new hair and outfits. If new hair and outfits had been in the DLC they would have been mentioned -- the whole point of talking about a new DLC is to raise people's interest in it, so you mention the good things that are in it. Therefore, anyone who read Bio's communications and still expected new hair and outfits was, bluntly, a fool.

But you knew that already.

Someone asked why people thought there would be extra features in BE. I supplied a possible reason. I'm sure there are many others, reasonable an unreasonable. I have an issue with how Bioware communicates in general. Personally, while there were things I hoped for (in an ideal), I didn't expect BE to somehow solve every issue I had with the game. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what's presented, but I also feels there's room for growth. Some of the growth can still be implemented in this game, and some will have to wait for later games to even be considered.

Ideally, Bioware might say "Hi all, we're working on x, y, and z, and we've heard what you're saying about a, b, and c. The best we can do right now is finish what we're doing, and get back to on whether or not a, b, and c are possible." Obviously, how they choose to report is their business, but there's nothing that dictates I have to be pleased with it. And I'm not sure what your point is about hyping up DLC. Jaws of Hakkon was not, to my understanding, particularly hyped up, so I would interpret that to mean that Bioware/EA do what they feel is best, rather than a hard rule of always heavily advertising.

[AlanC9]

My point was simply that it's stupid to put features in a DLC without talking about them when you're promoting the DLC, and nobody does that.

[In Exile]

Someone asked why people thought there would be extra features in BE. I supplied a possible reason. I'm sure there are many others, reasonable an unreasonable. I have an issue with how Bioware communicates in general. Personally, while there were things I hoped for (in an ideal), I didn't expect BE to somehow solve every issue I had with the game. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what's presented, but I also feels there's room for growth. Some of the growth can still be implemented in this game, and some will have to wait for later games to even be considered.

Ideally, Bioware might say "Hi all, we're working on x, y, and z, and we've heard what you're saying about a, b, and c. The best we can do right now is finish what we're doing, and get back to on whether or not a, b, and c are possible." Obviously, how they choose to report is their business, but there's nothing that dictates I have to be pleased with it. And I'm not sure what your point is about hyping up DLC. Jaws of Hakkon was not, to my understanding, particularly hyped up, so I would interpret that to mean that Bioware/EA do what they feel is best, rather than a hard rule of always heavily advertising.

 

Given the internet furor over anything Bioware marketing does, they've adopted the most safe corporate strategy: only speak about locked-in features. 

 

So, your statement, that's a terrible idea. Talking about features that aren't locked-in creates series issues. It creates expectations. Bioware might never add in any new customization options. Saying "we're considering customization options" will make people think there is a non-zero possibility those options will be in. Except that there are lots of reasons for why that might never materialize. 

[Winged Silver]

Given the internet furor over anything Bioware marketing does, they've adopted the most safe corporate strategy: only speak about locked-in features.

So, your statement, that's a terrible idea. Talking about features that aren't locked-in creates series issues. It creates expectations. Bioware might never add in any new customization options. Saying "we're considering customization options" will make people think there is a non-zero possibility those options will be in. Except that there are lots of reasons for why that might never materialize.

So you would discount every person who might be reasonable about it? Perhaps you are pessimistic, but even with the bad apples, I've seen enough people on this forum who would respond gracefully. But that is a difference on our perspectives, and not one that's likely to change for either of us based on this one conversation.

And I would argue that based on the issues surrounding BE, there are already problems involving unmet expectations (reasonable or not). Just because they stem from foolish reasons does nothing to deter from the fact that they exist, and that it's problematic. While I can only guess as to what others may feel and how they would react, I know I would feel a lot better if Bioware just said something, even if it wasn't something I particularly wished to hear. And I'm fairly certain that, based on what I've been recently on this forum section, I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[KaiserShep]

You could just as easily believed that Mike Laidlaw was a rhinoceros from the future.

 

Hey, you never know, he could be one of the Judoon.

 

Plo ho so no do fo sho, nokolocodekodo.

[Uirebhiril]

I don't recall the BE in DA2 offering new hairstyles or clothing options. All it did was allow you to change hair between already present styles, or facial features, or makeup. People asked for the ability to tweak their character after creation, and they gave us that option. New hairstyles or clothing would probably be given in a DLC pack if it were ever to happen.

 

It's hard to be disappointed in a feature we asked for that was given to us exactly as we had it before.

[thats1evildude]

Why would you expect the Mirror to offer features that it didn't in DA2?

[Sylvius the Mad]

...it's not unreasonable to assume...

Yes it is. It always is, regardless of context.

Assumptions are the very antihesis of reason.

[Winged Silver]

Yes it is. It always is, regardless of context.

Assumptions are the very antihesis of reason.

That's where you and I will have to agree to disagree. People make assumptions over all sorts of things because rarely is all the information present at our fingertips. We take what we know, determine whether or not extrapolation is appropriate, and then continue forward. Obviously, everyone is going to come to different conclusions based on different experiences and perspectives.

Let me draw you an example. A scientist rarely has all the information in a subject. They must make a hypothesis (an assumption) based on what information they do have, and then move forward with research based on it. Or decide not to move forward because they may feel they do not have enough information. Similarly, it depends on the individual. So please don't assume that an assumption is somehow completely unreasonable. It's only unreasonable when a person fails to address the reality (which in my case, you may recognize that I have, having admitted that hoping for additional materials in the BE was foolish). This does nothing to change what I'm still hoping to see/hear from Bioware.

 

Edit: Because I'm fairly certain someone will misconstrue my meaning - I do not mean to say that expecting something from a company is comparable to actually doing scientific research. The purpose of the comparison is to highlight the fallacy I perceive as present in the statement that assumptions are somehow completely disconnected from reason.

 

Edit #2: Also, I'm going to call it an evening. My original post was not intended to either excessively slam Bioware, nor come off as a rabid fan demanding things from the devs. There were things I hoped for, and as I've admitted multiple times on this thread, it was a foolish hope. Someone asked why people would expect extra, and I thought I'd supply one possible reason. However, in arguing with you and few others, I feel that nothing has changed in my original point. I still hope for these things. I still believe that hoping for them to appear in BE was foolish, though I myself fell into that. I'm still not certain what your original point was meant to be, as I had already admitted that it was a silly thing to hope for. So I'd like to call it an evening, in regards to this. If you want to continue to deconstruct my words, let's take it to the PM.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Nope, that's too much to expect.

Anything that lacks direct evidence is too much to expect.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's where you and I will have to agree to disagree. People make assumptions over all sorts of things because rarely is all the information present at our fingertips.

That doesn't make it okay.

Let me draw you an example. A scientist rarely has all the information in a subject. They must make a hypothesis (an assumption) based on what information they do have, and then move forward with research based on it. Or decide not to move forward because they may feel they do not have enough information. Similarly, it depends on the individual. So please don't assume that an assumption is somehow completely unreasonable. It's only unreasonable when a person fails to address the reality (which in my case, you may recognize that I have, having admitted that hoping for additional materials in the BE was foolish). This does nothing to change what I'm still hoping to see/hear from Bioware.

The fundamental difference between an hypothesis and an assumption is that the scientist doesn't hold the hypothesis to be true. it is a supposition for the purpose of experimentation.

If someone were testing to see whether BioWare were going to provide additional content, then the hypothesis comparison would hold. But a scientist who believes his hypotheses to be correct before having tested them is a poor scientist (many modern scientists do do this - it's a serious problem).

[AlanC9]

That scientist analogy doesn't work. But you could make something like it work if you talked about a different profession. Military officers, or even businessmen, often have to "make a hypothesis (an assumption) based on what information they do have, and then move forward with research actions based on it. "

The remaining problems with the analogy are that in the situation we're discussing the assumption wasn't based on any actual information -- all the information went the other way -- and there wasn't any action to take or not take anyway.

[Sartoz]

It's in kirkwall. If you look at the table

 

 

Snip

 

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Yes, thank you. 

 

I'm still waiting for the mission to show up and I don't know what must be done to trigger it. As of right now,  the War Table map only shows Varric's High Town.

[Sartoz]

Anything that lacks direct evidence is too much to expect.

 

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Funny that radio listeners (for example) plan for a stormy day based on a weather report yet personally lack direct evidence of tomorrow's weather information from weather balloon data.

 

Bio bowed to gamers' demands/pleas to have some way to re-touch their quizzies face during the game or re-use their quizzies face  with another  playthrough. These pleas/demands were also accompanied by more hairstyles pleas.  So, here is Bio acknowledging this lack of foresight with a BE announcement. Equally obvious is that this BE is a modified one, with a new Voice Actor. Expecting a new hairstyle/armour or two is not unreasonable. 

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

Funny that radio listeners (for example) plan for a stormy day based on a weather report yet personally lack direct evidence of tomorrow's weather information from weather balloon data.

Right, and as we all know, weather forecasting is very much like marketing. The two are fundamentally indistinguishable.

[AlanC9]

Bio bowed to gamers' demands/pleas to have some way to re-touch their quizzies face during the game or re-use their quizzies face  with another  playthrough. These pleas/demands were also accompanied by more hairstyles pleas.  So, here is Bio acknowledging this lack of foresight with a BE announcement. Equally obvious is that this BE is a modified one, with a new Voice Actor. Expecting a new hairstyle/armour or two is not unreasonable.

I don't see how the conclusion follows from the premises there. If you ask Santa for a bunch of stuff for Christmas, and one of the things shows up under the tree, is it therefore reasonable to conclude that everything on the list is under the tree? Even when there are no other boxes with your name on them?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Funny that radio listeners (for example) plan for a stormy day based on a weather report yet personally lack direct evidence of tomorrow's weather information from weather balloon data.

It's not funny; it's appalling. A radio weather forecast is often so simplified as to be meaningless.

Bio bowed to gamers' demands/pleas to have some way to re-touch their quizzies face during the game or re-use their quizzies face with another playthrough. These pleas/demands were also accompanied by more hairstyles pleas. So, here is Bio acknowledging this lack of foresight with a BE announcement. Equally obvious is that this BE is a modified one, with a new Voice Actor. Expecting a new hairstyle/armour or two is not unreasonable.

You still haven't connected those dots.

If I make you a ham sandwich, and then I offer to make someone else a sandwich as well, it is unreasonable to assume that the second sandwich will be ham. There's no reason to believe it will.

And I'm pretty sure it's the same voice actor.

[caradoc2000]

All this splitting hairs about assumptions and hypotheses makes my hair stand on end.

[Kantr]

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Yes, thank you. 

 

I'm still waiting for the mission to show up and I don't know what must be done to trigger it. As of right now,  the War Table map only shows Varric's High Town.

It should just show up once the dlc is installed. Like the Hakkon area.

[Felya87]

It's not funny; it's appalling. A radio weather forecast is often so simplified as to be meaningless.
You still haven't connected those dots.

If I make you a ham sandwich, and then I offer to make someone else a sandwich as well, it is unreasonable to assume that the second sandwich will be ham. There's no reason to believe it will.

 

 

But there is no reason to believe the contrary either, and that's the reason why usually for politeness when giving a different type sandwich, you advertise the person.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But there is no reason to believe the contrary either

Absolutely correct. All the more reason to remain at the rational default position of uncertainty.