24 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

As a continuation to the discussion about Nukes and other radiation weapons in space, I wanted to try and find some possible space weapons that were overlooked or underused in the ME universe.

 

Feel free to mention weapons from other Sci-Fi shows / games / books / movies, just include a description for those who might not be familiar with the specific genre.

 

 

Here are some suggestions:

 

 

1. An up-scaled shotgun.

 

To start with, here is a possible weapon for use by large spacecraft against swarm tactics by an enemy that uses large amounts of drones, small fighters, and other annoying space-insects:

 

Instead of the usual great slugs of metal, load on the spinal mass-accelerator of any big ship a giant canister filled with small flachette penetrators, or indeed simple tiny bits of metal, point the ship in the general direction of the incoming swarm of fighters, bombers, drones, and maybe even corvettes, and shoot.

 

 

2. An Anti-laser Barrier.

In order to make sure that no one claims that I have some kind of bias against small spasecraft , here is something that may help fighters to survive an encounter with Laser-Based point defense systems.

 

The idea is to trap a cloud of small particles of matter with the ability to cause diffraction, refraction, or otherwise act as an ablative armor against laser.

 

This cloud will be trapped via a secondary (double layerd?) low-grade kinetic barrier that will remain active and maintain a mass field for a relatively long period of time, and make sure that the energy that makes it past the cloud is not enough to penetrate the hull or armor of said fighter.

 

The fighter will have a limited ability to release more particles into the cloud as needed, in order to replenish or thicken the cloud.

 

 

3. A dedicated artillery platform. (or - a giant space sausage!)

 

Take the concept of a dreadnought, strip down everything non essential to the operation of the main gun, like point defense, barracks for marines, hangers for smaller spaceships, countless secondary weapons, mind-boggling tonnage of armor plates, etc.

 

What are we left with? A very small target - at least when it is aimed at you, shaped more or less like a giant space sausage,

that has only one role: Stay in the back of the fleet, and snipe any ship bigger than a Frigate you can see.

 

Advantages:

 

A. For the price of one dreadnaught, you can probably make... err... I don't know, a dozen of these sausages? two dozen? more?

 

B. A few of these firing together can solve the equation of: "4 Dreadnaughts = One Reaper barrier overloaded" in a possibly less suicidal fashion for the citadel forces.

 

Disadvantages:

 

If the enemy manages to get too close to your sausage (no, that's not quite what I meant...), your only hope is to re-route power from The Gun to your barriers, and jump to FTL.

 

 

Can you think of anything else that might have potential in this area?

[Vazgen]

For the first, fighters and drones are shielded. You'll have to shoot large enough chunks of metal to destroy those shields. And I don't think they can shoot too many slugs of that size. 

For the second, I don't think mass effect fields allow that possibility.

For the third, dreadnought's main gun is about the same size as the ship itself (Link).

[Laughing_Man]

For the first, fighters and drones are shielded. You'll have to shoot large enough chunks of metal to destroy those shields. And I don't think they can shoot too many slugs of that size. 

For the second, I don't think mass effect fields allow that possibility.

For the third, dreadnought's main gun is about the same size as the ship itself (Link).

 

A. Kinetic energy can be transferred through the size of the projectile, certainly, but also through speed. Small arms use mostly grain-sized projectiles.

I suspect that a cloud of flachette darts will be more than enough to ruin the day for anyone that only has a fighter's shield to protect them.

 

B. I don't see why not. A steady barrier can block just about everything from passing it. Not that difficult to use this property to do what I suggested.

 

C. Yeah, the *length* of the main gun. Everything else I wrote stands, I didn't mention shortening the main gun.

[Phalanx]

For the up-scaled shotgun idea. Given the ranges involved and speed of fighters I'm not sure how useful such a weapon would be. Those flachettes are going to dissipate to the extent of being very limited in use at long range and at short range it would be easy to avoid the cannon. Might be better against frigates. They also have the unfortunate side-effect of producing a lot of high velocity hazardous fragments that will just keep going and be very hard to track, presenting a danger to civilian traffic.

 

The laser shield barrier idea is a really great one, although it's certainly the sort of thing bound to be fraught with issues from an in-universe perspective that limits the utility somewhat.

 

I don't think that the big gun idea is workable. It seems after all to be the core idea behind a dreadnought. Put a big gun in space. It's going to need engines, an ezzo core and cooling equipment; add big wings and other bulky equipment. It's going to need a crew to maintain and operate; add crew facilities. The crew need protected from radiation; add armour to their facilities. The crew need a flexible way to get on and off the ship; add hangers. The ship is now vulnerable to boarding actions; add marine barracks. You now have a big, expensive, vulnerable ship with lots of crew that can't defend itself (or even escape before being destroyed if something get's close); add more armour and GUARDIAN. Said ship can't properly target smaller vessels or multiple threats at longer range; add extra guns.

 

Basically a dreadnought is already a giant big gun. It's just that in order to make it functional, cost effective and survivable it needs a bunch of extra stuff by which point you need to add the other stuff or you've just got an expensive but not particularly flexible ship.

[KrrKs]

^This!

As for 2. (I really like that Idea, I once even used something similar for a ship design)

It should be possible in the MEU;according to the codex explanation it's the very same tech used in Tech Armour* and the omni-stabbing stuff.

 

The only problem is that you'd need an unprotected Area for whatever sensors the fighter uses and for the fighter's weapons.

 

*I was mistake, the codex says that Tech Armor is an unstable warp field held by biotic barriers.

[Heimerdinger]

In the real world the aircraft carrier made the battleship obsolete. In the MEU the humans seem to understand that. Rear admiral Mikhaelovich talked about how they could have 12.000 fighters for the same cost of the SR1. I think if the reapers have not showed up the Alliance would have become the number 1 player in the galactic scene. The Treaty of Farixen restricts the number of dreadnoughts but doesn't say anything about carriers and human commanders recognize their value better than the other races, the codex even mentions that. The Alliance could focus more on building carriers.

 

Most ships have good anti-aircratf defense (GARDIAN lasers) but it is acknowledged that these defenses don't last long (they are fragile, plus they overheat fast). Multiple waves of fighters launched by carriers (parked out of weapons range and protected by a carrier group) could overwhelm any defense system. Maybe even design the fighters as unmanned crafts. Take inspiration from the geth and create a capable VI system to pilot these effectively, this way you also have superiority against enemy fighters that are controlled by a organic pilot. If the enemy adapts and switches to VI piloting then make sure your own VI's are constantly updated and better.

 

Concerning the reapers. Not sure how going mass fighters would work out against the reapers. It could work in some battles but in the long run the reapers have the advantage of insane numbers. According to an estimation I posted here were talking thousands of capital ships and tens of thousand of destroyers. This brings us again to Crucible style super-weapons as the only solution.

 

Update: Carrier groups + fighters + interceptors + fighter bombers with Javelin type missiles would be my proposed tactic.

 

 

 

Developed by the Alliance, Javelin missiles release dark energy upon impact. This creates devastating space-time disruptions, magnified warp fields that strip away a target's molecular bonds. Even the strongest kinetic barriers will eventually collapse after multiple impacts from these rockets.

Modifié par Heimerdinger, 17 mai 2015 - 04:00 .

[SuperJogi]

Put an eezo core on a cruise missile.

Sure it's expensive, but a good way to take out strategic targets over long ranges.

[Heimerdinger]

Put an eezo core on a cruise missile.

Sure it's expensive, but a good way to take out strategic targets over long ranges.

 

They already have the Javelin MKII missiles but these were underused and only vaguely explained. I think it's some kind of experimental tech.

[Laughing_Man]

Put an eezo core on a cruise missile.

Sure it's expensive, but a good way to take out strategic targets over long ranges.

 

Would you care to elaborate? Is the cruise missile meant to reach FTL? Because if not, it will still be vulnerable to GARDIAN systems.

[SuperJogi]

Would you care to elaborate? Is the cruise missile meant to reach FTL? Because if not, it will still be vulnerable to GARDIAN systems.

 

Yeah, exactly. You could either put in a kinetic penetrator to maximise effect against barriers, or a nuclear or antimatter warhead. Then you install a small eezo core to give it FTL capabilities, and maybe even a stealth system like in the Normandy to minimize chance of detection. It could be launched from either ships or stationary launchers on surface. You could use it to destroy enemy capital ships long before they get into range, or take out space stations or planetary structures from great distance. If your targeting systems are intelligent enough, you could even send it through the relay network, giving it a virtually infinite range. If hitting targets while in FTL is too difficult/impossible, you could make it drop out of FTL right in front of the target, hitting it at highly relativistic speeds.

Sure, it's a highly complex and expensive weapon system, but it would give you important stategic capabilities.

Pretty much a space ICBM.

[AlaskaThe1st]

Do you think the Alliance has continued any research on Coilgun tech. I mean I get it if they stuck with the mass accelerators and all, but just wondering if they kept alternatives in mind. 

[Laughing_Man]

Seems like a waste, since it does more or less the same things as eezo based weaponry, but does not provide any kind of advantage.

[SuperJogi]

Do you think the Alliance has continued any research on Coilgun tech. I mean I get it if they stuck with the mass accelerators and all, but just wondering if they kept alternatives in mind. 

 

I thought mass accelerators work through magnetic accelerators anyway. The ME field just inceases projectile speed.

[Laughing_Man]

I thought mass accelerators work through magnetic accelerators anyway. The ME field just inceases projectile speed.

 

Yeah probably.

[KrrKs]

Seems like a waste, since it does more or less the same things as eezo based weaponry, but does not provide any kind of advantage.

Coil guns have the immense advantage that they do not generate any heat due to friction.

ME guns use rail guns, that'd need to change their rails every so often. On the other hand there also exist frictionless materials in the me:u.

 

The current immense drawback that Gauß guns have, (apart from energy consumption, rail guns share that, too) is that the feedback control systems needed to reach the max. effectiveness/ projectile speed are seemingly rather difficult and must react very very fast.

[SuperJogi]

ME guns use rail guns, that'd need to change their rails every so often.

 

Can you give me a codex entry where it says that? The only thing I could find is that they're accelerated electromagneticly, but no exact construction.

[Laughing_Man]

Can you give me a codex entry where it says that? The only thing I could find is that they're accelerated electromagneticly, but no exact construction.

 

In fact, rail gun is never mentioned as far as I remember, only "mass accelerator".

[KrrKs]

^This is correct, but the weapon mod descriptions/names in ME1 (frictionless materials and rail extensions) only make sense when the weapons in question are rail guns.

 

The statement that rail guns would need to change the rails, comes from the (to be expected) rail deformation. The rails get hot due to the current that drives the projectile; the added (necessary!) friction increases heat and causes an ever so slightly material loss.

[Hrulj]

I never understood why minefields werent used. The enemies have only one point of entry (mass relay) and if you create a minefield there it is sure to cause massive cassualties

[SuperJogi]

I never understood why minefields werent used. The enemies have only one point of entry (mass relay) and if you create a minefield there it is sure to cause massive cassualties

 

Or messing with mass relays in general. For example moving a relay into a very close orbit around a star and then watch every ship that enters burn up instantaneously.

[Hrulj]

Or messing with mass relays in general. For example moving a relay into a very close orbit around a star and then watch every ship that enters burn up instantaneously.

That is also a good idea, but how to get it back in place then?

[SuperJogi]

That is also a good idea, but how to get it back in place then?

 

Well, I'll admit that I didn't really thought of that

But there are several ways you could change somethings orbit without getting to close to it. You could shoot it, or you could let a sizeable asteroid fly by... Something like that.

[Emissary of the Collectors]

On the idea of using Omni-weapon style tech for space craft: How about some kind of massive system that converts materials (like space-born particles and debris) into omni-gel and then flash converts that into instant armor to absorb enemy weapons-fire just like an omni-blade (but visually like Tech Armor). However it would take far too much gel to create a full shield, so instead it uses a VI to predict impact zones and creates tiny plating on the exact point of impact. Keep in mind all of this would be a defensive measure before Kinetic Barriers and such.

 

Just something off the top of my head as an extra layer of defense, might make single-impact ordinance ineffective (like torpedoes) but id imagine energy damage would still be an issue (Reaper lasers for instance).

 

Note that i just came up with it off the top of my head, im not a scientist, and i didnt bother to check the codex to see if it conflicted with anything...just sayin

[Undead Han]

The biggest is weaponizing mass effect fields.

 

If you could use mass effect technology to increase the mass of enemy vessels, you could either drop them out FTL or prevent them from reaching it. That would be a game changer with naval combat.

[Laughing_Man]

The biggest is weaponizing mass effect fields.

 

If you could use mass effect technology to increase the mass of enemy vessels, you could either drop them out FTL or prevent them from reaching it. That would be a game changer with naval combat.

 

I can see something along the lines of a Star Wars Interdictor-Class Star Destroyer being built in the ME:U.