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Neogaf: Dragon Age Origins is better than DA: I, reason: too much artificial fluff.


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#1
levyjl1988

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The game is plagued by too many collectable and pointless fluff. Instead of being to the point and focused it feel like a huge map, good background by the artistry, but injected with little value points of interest. 

 

Here's the forum thread on NeoGaf:

http://www.neogaf.co...d.php?t=1047546

 

Some quotes:

 

"Inquisition looks nicer but has too much padding. It's hampered by modern day AAA sensibilities (the Ubisoft collectible stratagem) "

 

"Origins any day of the week. 

Memorable sidequests over the shitfest MMO Inquisition has going on."

 

"Origins wipes the floor with Inquisition. It was a really well crafted RPG that had good mission structure and quests, good characters and choices. Inquisition is loaded with MMO busywork and filler content to pad out the game length and has awful combat. It's an enormous shame to imagine what they could have done with those production values and budget if they kept to the design philosophy of Origins instead of taking the route they did."

 

"Origins and it isn't even close. Inquisition was embarrassingly bad."

 

"Origins was far better than Inquisition. I must have played through Origins about 6 times and I am struggling through my first playthrough of Inquisition."

 

"Origins is very good game and Inquisition is a very bad and boring game. Origins got better and focused story, missions and side quest, better cast, better and more enjoyable combat while Inquisition have really bad story and forgettable bland cast and really boring combat and MMO like quests."

 

"Origins, no doubt. Inquisition held together for one playthrough, because of the characters and the story. Now that I'm done with that, I can't bring myself to go back to the shitty quests you have do to actually play it."

 

"Inquisition is just another mediocre game with pretty graphics."

 

 

So I hope Bioware learned something from this.

 

1. If you are going to craft the world, get to the point.

 

2. Stop trying to make your world interesting by littering useless items all over the place. Be a focused game from the beginning to the end. It's a terrible design philosophy. You craft areas and you litter collectables in that area just so you can push the player there because you want to showcase your design. You should have done the opposite and similar to Dark Souls, hide complete areas players will miss and they'll fall in love with the atmosphere. Dragon Age doesn't give me that vibe. Origins was what capsulated it. 

 

3. No one plays Dragon Age to be like an MMO. Most people who work full time jobs can play only so much hours. If the game doesn't get to the point and hit major crescendos it's lacking. Tell Tale Games get to the point and it's more successful at telling stories, Breaking Bad is amazing and brilliant, it went to the point, Game of Thrones is amazing, it got me hooked and it got to the point.

There are no proper beats in DA:I. There is too much fluff and grinding in the game to create the artificial gameplay extension and it's sickening.  

 

 

 

 


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#2
Teddie Sage

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So... NeoGaf needs to be taken seriously why?


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#3
Guest_john_sheparrd_*

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So... NeoGaf needs to be taken seriously why?

because in this case they are right

DA:I was just terrible compared to DA:O


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#4
JasonPogo

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I agree with almost all of that.  But why would Bioware suddenly care that NeoGaf is saying what a bunch of other people are saying?  The game made lots of money and a lot of people do like it.  I think Bioware is fine with how things turned out. 


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#5
Teddie Sage

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Sorry but to me NeoGaf is like the second 4chan of the internet while BSN is the third. I can't take anything seriously there.


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#6
Fiery Phoenix

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I don't think any of their arguments are unreasonable.


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#7
JeffZero

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NeoGAF is frequently cited as the forum that video game developers lurk for fan consensus, and BioWare's no stranger to that approach. Folks like Aaryn Flynn have popped in there to ask questions they won't even bring up here on the official forums.

 

I can't remember, but I think I may have even posted in that thread. Either way, I agree with the general opinion, although much is a bit of a strong word.

 

Anyway, as to the allegation that no one plays Dragon Age to be like an MMO, while I certainly don't and many long-time forumites on a place like the BSN certainly don't, AAA gaming development is all about the big picture of the largest number of courted players. Like it or not, them's the breaks. If EA and BioWare were convinced by sales of games such as, yes, Skyrim, that most RPG players want large open worlds no matter the cost, then that's what they were going to make. And so they did.


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#8
Cheviot

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People shouldn't go to neogaf for opinion; they should go for the leaks.  And also the hilariously highly-strung meltdown threads that happen from time to time. 


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#9
Pondering Drifter

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This thread by CronoDragoon identifies the biggest flaw in Inquisition's story and world design.

 

http://forum.bioware...e-quest-design/

 

The core of the issue is that majority of these additional zones have no impactful consequences that effect the main plot. The fact that we can complete the game without ever setting foot in any of these additional zones shows how weak the main plot becomes after "Here Lies the Abyss". It almost feels like areas like the Exalted Plans, the Emearld Graves, Emprise Du Lion, and the Hissing Wastes were meant to be tied into the main story but were cut short during the development phase. Thus the areas were created but they lacked meaningful content.

 

As for Neogaf.

 

The comments can be loud, obnoxious, and untactful. But it doesn't mean there isn't anything of worth. Ideally criticism would be constructive and well organized but that is just a pipe dream. Sometimes you have dig through 500+ comments to find that one gem of useful feedback.


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#10
DarkKnightHolmes

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Umm, most people already agree that DAO is the best. What's the point of another DAO vs. DAI thread?



#11
TheOgre

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Umm, most people already agree that DAO is the best. What's the point of another DAO vs. DAI thread?

 

Most? Not trying to be rude I really mean to ask -- Based on the forum posts? I think more dissatisfied people will post then appreciative people.


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#12
DarkKnightHolmes

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Most? Not trying to be rude I really mean to ask -- Based on the forum posts? I think more dissatisfied people will post then appreciative people.

 

The polls for best game in the DA series always have DAO winning in this forum and Warden is always the highest voted Protagonist. So yeah, 'most' here would agree. Though I don't hate DAI, I think it's alright. That's why I don't see the point of this thread when we have a billion threads already screaming about DAO here.


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#13
Torgette

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So... NeoGaf needs to be taken seriously why?

 

I stopped taking Gaf seriously a long time ago, everything is hyperbole.

 

If you want something funny to read though, Gaf is great for it, especially the Off Topic threads.


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#14
Torgette

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This thread by CronoDragoon identifies the biggest flaw in Inquisition's story and world design.

 

http://forum.bioware...e-quest-design/

 

The core of the issue is that majority of these additional zones have no impactful consequences that effect the main plot. The fact that we can complete the game without ever setting foot in any of these additional zones shows how weak the main plot becomes after "Here Lies the Abyss". It almost feels like areas like the Exalted Plans, the Emearld Graves, Emprise Du Lion, and the Hissing Wastes were meant to be tied into the main story but were cut short during the development phase. Thus the areas were created but they lacked meaningful content.

 

As for Neogaf.

 

The comments can be loud, obnoxious, and untactful. But it doesn't mean there isn't anything of worth. Ideally criticism would be constructive and well organized but that is just a pipe dream. Sometimes you have dig through 500+ comments to find that one gem of useful feedback.

 

Right, as i've said from the beginning it's ambitious in scope but structurally unpolished and maybe stretched too thin. The main quest itself (the required areas) is adequate in length for a Bioware game, but shorter than DAO (where most of the content was tied into the main quest). This isn't really a big deal to me that there's so many optional areas, and some of the ideas for the areas and side stories are really neat (old crestwood, red lyrium templars, venatori, avaar, mage vs. templar civil war, knight's tomb & the dalish elves, etc.) - but they're not all as well produced (telling rather than showing) and hard to get to (cluttered maps and lack of intuitive exploration). Besides that, it needed at least one personal side quest for the PC to establish their identity after being swept up in the Inquisition, and it needed more establishing of Corypheus as a proper villian and not just a boogeyman. The ending also needed proper setup, which it completely lacked. DAO is indeed a better more polished game overall (even if I like some of the combat changes since then), but I prefer to stay on the optimistic side with DAI and point out its pros and cons and not just be whiney.



#15
Dutch

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neogaf is a sjw cesspit but they hit the nail on the head for DAI being a trash game.


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#16
Pondering Drifter

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Right, as i've said from the beginning it's ambitious in scope but structurally unpolished and maybe stretched too thin. The main quest itself (the required areas) is adequate in length for a Bioware game, but shorter than DAO (where most of the content was tied into the main quest). This isn't really a big deal to me that there's so many optional areas, and some of the ideas for the areas and side stories are really neat (old crestwood, red lyrium templars, venatori, avaar, mage vs. templar civil war, knight's tomb & the dalish elves, etc.) - but they're not all as well produced (telling rather than showing) and hard to get to (cluttered maps and lack of intuitive exploration). Besides that, it needed at least one personal side quest for the PC to establish their identity after being swept up in the Inquisition, and it needed more establishing of Corypheus as a proper villian and not just a boogeyman. The ending also needed proper setup, which it completely lacked. DAO is indeed a better more polished game overall (even if I like some of the combat changes since then), but I prefer to stay on the optimistic side with DAI and point out its pros and cons and not just be whiney.

 

Oh believe me Inquisition nails the companion characters by making them compelling and the visuals in each vista are stunning. Its a great game, but there is so much it can improve upon in terms of story structure, item crafting, and personal character appearance. If these areas were addressed, we wouldn't have just a great game, we would have a game that stands above its peers as a hallmark of RPGS.



#17
AllThatJazz

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I stopped taking Gaf seriously a long time ago, everything is hyperbole.
 
If you want something funny to read though, Gaf is great for it, especially the Off Topic threads.


Oh God yes. The Ebola thread was quite a phenomenon, what with the number of people actually thinking it was the end of the world. Made the BSN look like a haven of common sense and rationale. Scary thought!

Anyway, I like GAF. Yes, the Inquisition backlash has gone off the deep end somewhat (though it is at least polarising, rather than outright hated like da2), yes there are some there who are really salty about Bioware in general and will never manage to say anything non-hostile about them regardless of what games they make, and yes I often feel that my tastes in games run counter to those of most of GAF. But, plenty of good honest feedback there too, there were some good points quoted in the OP's post, and devs need to look somewhere outside of BSN for critical feedback I think. It can get very personal here sometimes, and usually isn't so bad on GAF.

 

Edit: To be fair OP, there are also some positive comments about Inquisition. Shouldn't you post some some of those too, in the interests of balance? That thread isn't quite as one-sided as you make it seem.



#18
Octarin

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The polls for best game in the DA series always have DAO winning in this forum and Warden is always the highest voted Protagonist. So yeah, 'most' here would agree. Though I don't hate DAI, I think it's alright. That's why I don't see the point of this thread when we have a billion threads already screaming about DAO here.

 

Well, apparently, this one is more to determine whether NeoGaf is utter pants or not. So far I detect a stronger negative tendency to consensus, but we are still waiting for consensus to be reached. 



#19
JeffZero

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neogaf is a sjw cesspit but they hit the nail on the head for DAI being a trash game.


I'm impressed by your capacity to thread multiple hyperboles into so few words.
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#20
BouncyFrag

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GAF has turned its eye and sees all of you - scroll to about mid page.
http://m.neogaf.com/...546&page=100000
Spoiler


#21
Ryzaki

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Eh DAO and DAI both have some pretty bad flaws. DAI though has combat that doesn't make me wanna tear my hair out so that's a point in its favor.


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#22
AresKeith

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I'm impressed by your capacity to thread multiple hyperboles into so few words.

 

You should see the thread he makes then :P



#23
wolfhowwl

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Amir0x sucks.



#24
Guest_john_sheparrd_*

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Sorry but to me NeoGaf is like the second 4chan of the internet while BSN is the third. I can't take anything seriously there.

Because it doesn't match with your opinion? lol 

 

Especially BSN seriously? There are much worse places

sry this is a discussion forum not a fanboy one



#25
BSpud

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You should see the thread he makes then :P

 

Yeah, they're awful.