949 réponses à ce sujet

[Morty Smith]

But that is drawing lines in the sand. Their previous stance on DLC has been that it is anti-consumerist, unless it meets that mythical mark of being substantial, and note that they have never actually mentioned any DLCs that met that mark, instead taking potshots at other companies for their DLC policies. So the follow-up question what is substantial is completely irrelevant, as that is such an objective standard. I felt Legacy was substantial, I felt Omage was substantial, yet they are also DLCs.

 

If they say they will charge for content that is substantial it will only be because of what they think is substantial. What other measurement should they incorporate, the one of the downloadable-content office in little venice?

 

If that´s agreeable, I think that´s up to everyone who bought the expansion-pass to decide.

[Hiemoth]

If they say they will charge for content that is substantial it will only be because of what they think is substantial. What other measurement should they incorporate, the one of the downloadable-content office in little venice?

 

If that´s agreeable, I think that´s up to everyone who bought the expansion-pass to decide.

 

And I am constantly feeling we are not talking about the same thing here.

 

Of course it is up to the subscriber of the season pass to decide whetever or not they wish to buy the product. And I have not seen anyone in this thread saying that CDPR shouldn't charge for this product.

 

The argument here is that prior to this, CDPR has been publicly very anti-DLC, going out of their way to paint it anti-consumerist, while keeping using the word substantial which is extremely vague. This attitude seemed to foster hostility towards other companies DLC-policies, which involved charging for DLCs, which was an attitude CDPR seemed to foster. So after having contributed to the toxic atmosphere and making those statements, it is hypocricy for them now to state that they are actually putting out priced DLCs, which is okay now since it is not a DLC, but an "expansion" and, you know, substantial at that.

[Sanunes]

And I am constantly feeling we are not talking about the same thing here.

 

Of course it is up to the subscriber of the season pass to decide whetever or not they wish to buy the product. And I have not seen anyone in this thread saying that CDPR shouldn't charge for this product.

 

The argument here is that prior to this, CDPR has been publicly very anti-DLC, going out of their way to paint it anti-consumerist, while keeping using the word substantial which is extremely vague. This attitude seemed to foster hostility towards other companies DLC-policies, which involved charging for DLCs, which was an attitude CDPR seemed to foster. So after having contributed to the toxic atmosphere and making those statements, it is hypocricy for them now to state that they are actually putting out priced DLCs, which is okay now since it is not a DLC, but an "expansion" and, you know, substantial at that.

 

I just wish CDPR would change the terms they are using for I really don't think they are going to live up to what players consider expansions either, its a lot like Destiny and their expansions from what I have seen I don't consider them expansions either just DLC.  Now I do plan on eventually getting The Witcher 3, but if that content is like what BioWare offers for their DLC for Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I fully expect a fire storm.  Even a minor change to "story DLC" and "cosmetic DLC" would be an improvement.

[Majestic Jazz]

I just think there is a faction of Bioware fans that just does not want to give ANY type of credit to TW3 or CDPR for that matter. No, CDPR isnt the messiah of WRPGs and TW3 is FAR from a perfect game. Yes, CDPR did take a 180 on their policy regarding DLC. But they are still miles ahead of Bioware in not charging us from smaller "item" DLC packs in the same way as Bioware.

The respect for CDPR for this move might have fell on death ears here but that is to be expected, this is a Bioware forum. However the general mood everywhere else is much more positive.

I just completed a side quest that was so cinematic, so story driven and emotional, I forgot that it was a side quest. This quest had multiple layers and everything. If you are playing TW3 and wanting to know which mission I am talking about it is about the ghost on the island where you use the green lamp to find them. DAI had NO side quest like this. Also there are MANY fetch quest in TW3 but they are so rich in story, dialog, and cinematics that you forget that what you are doing is a simple "go here...pick that up....bring it back" fetch. Again, nothing like DAI. Well done CDPR.

If DAI had side quest like TW3, then DAI would be untouchable but that wasnt the quest. So to get back on topic, now.... sales asside and GOTY awards asside, now that TW3 is out and getting HIGH review scores, how will DAI be viewed now that it has a competitor to compare against?

[Hiemoth]

I just think there is a faction of Bioware fans that just does not want to give ANY type of credit to TW3 or CDPR for that matter. No, CDPR isnt the messiah of WRPGs and TW3 is FAR from a perfect game. Yes, CDPR did take a 180 on their policy regarding DLC. But they are still miles ahead of Bioware in not charging us from smaller "item" DLC packs in the same way as Bioware.

The respect for CDPR for this move might have fell on death ears here but that is to be expected, this is a Bioware forum. However the general mood everywhere else is much more positive.

I just completed a side quest that was so cinematic, so story driven and emotional, I forgot that it was a side quest. This quest had multiple layers and everything. If you are playing TW3 and wanting to know which mission I am talking about it is about the ghost on the island where you use the green lamp to find them. DAI had NO side quest like this. Also there are MANY fetch quest in TW3 but they are so rich in story, dialog, and cinematics that you forget that what you are doing is a simple "go here...pick that up....bring it back" fetch. Again, nothing like DAI. Well done CDPR.

If DAI had side quest like TW3, then DAI would be untouchable but that wasnt the quest. So to get back on topic, how sales asside and GOTY awards asside, now that TW3 is out, how will DAI be viewed now that it has a competitor to compare against?

 

What exactly are you responding to with this? At no point has the discussion in this thread been if TW3 is a good game, but on the hypocrisy of CDPR's actions. As simple as that. Yet what credit do you wish to be given in this matter? And why are you so obsessed with the item packs, as they are not the main DLC product discussed here? Even if we ignore the facts that the item packs give more content that the single item free DLCs from CDPR, they are also in no way mandatory for the game or give any additional content for the game. The comparison argument here is for the story DLCs from Bioware, which you seem to be constantly ignoring.

 

And what respect is this demanded here? I am utterly baffled by this, as you at the same time ignore everytime Bioware has done free DLCs, pay no attention to MP DLC which is always free, yet for some reason CDPR's valiant efforts need respect. And what is general mood concept? Everything again in this thread has been based on what CDPR did and have said before. So instead of arguing that, we are now resorted to an argument elsewhere people appreciate CDPR's efforts. Besides, I thought the reaction at CDPR's forums was very divided to the season pass decision?

[In Exile]

And I am constantly feeling we are not talking about the same thing here.

Of course it is up to the subscriber of the season pass to decide whetever or not they wish to buy the product. And I have not seen anyone in this thread saying that CDPR shouldn't charge for this product.

The argument here is that prior to this, CDPR has been publicly very anti-DLC, going out of their way to paint it anti-consumerist, while keeping using the word substantial which is extremely vague. This attitude seemed to foster hostility towards other companies DLC-policies, which involved charging for DLCs, which was an attitude CDPR seemed to foster. So after having contributed to the toxic atmosphere and making those statements, it is hypocricy for them now to state that they are actually putting out priced DLCs, which is okay now since it is not a DLC, but an "expansion" and, you know, substantial at that.

To that there is the added implication that they are apparently the only company magnanimous enough to give us this "substantial" content (because it is an "expansion") despite the fact that - for example - the marketing pitch makes it very comparable to other DLC plans they maligned. And it's nonsense anyway since "DLC" is a method of distribution. It'd be like talking about how "e-mail" is anti-consumer.

[Majestic Jazz]

What exactly are you responding to with this? At no point has the discussion in this thread been if TW3 is a good game, but on the hypocrisy of CDPR's actions. As simple as that. Yet what credit do you wish to be given in this matter? And why are you so obsessed with the item packs, as they are not the main DLC product discussed here? Even if we ignore the facts that the item packs give more content that the single item free DLCs from CDPR, they are also in no way mandatory for the game or give any additional content for the game. The comparison argument here is for the story DLCs from Bioware, which you seem to be constantly ignoring.

And what respect is this demanded here? I am utterly baffled by this, as you at the same time ignore everytime Bioware has done free DLCs, pay no attention to MP DLC which is always free, yet for some reason CDPR's valiant efforts need respect. And what is general mood concept? Everything again in this thread has been based on what CDPR did and have said before. So instead of arguing that, we are now resorted to an argument elsewhere people appreciate CDPR's efforts. Besides, I thought the reaction at CDPR's forums was very divided to the season pass decision?

I predicted such response.

[Hiemoth]

I predicted such response.

 

I just get this straight. Is your argument that if anyone here has critical comments on CDPR's hypocricy concerning their approach DLCs, even when those comments have nothing to do with the actual content of TW3, it just a case with Bioware fans refusing CDPR their proper respect because of close-mindedness? And you see this as fostering discussion?

[Morty Smith]

I just get this straight. Is your argument that if anyone here has critical comments on CDPR's hypocricy concerning their approach DLCs, even when those comments have nothing to do with the actual content of TW3, it just a case with Bioware fans refusing CDPR their proper respect because of close-mindedness? And you see this as fostering discussion?

 

No you don´t have to respect them and you can continue to blame them for taking potshots, even if they never said DLC such as "Legacy" or "Omega" weren´t substantial in their eyes. But you have yet to convince me of their hipocrisy if that was your goal. I was never charged for things that are cosmetic or just extra items. Things I think aren´t substantial.

 

Now they charge for content that should offer hours of gameplay, estimated at around 10 hrs + 20hrs. And they said, again, that if they would charge for content/dlc/the devil, it would only be for "substantial" DLC.

[Elhanan]

The Black Emporium DLC is free, as are a couple of the DA-MP DLC. Other DLC have a cost. It has always been the consumer's choice whether to determine the value of said content; whether or not to include it to their game.

[slimgrin]

I just get this straight. Is your argument that if anyone here has critical comments on CDPR's hypocricy concerning their approach DLCs, even when those comments have nothing to do with the actual content of TW3, it just a case with Bioware fans refusing CDPR their proper respect because of close-mindedness? And you see this as fostering discussion?

 

There is no hypocrisy about their expansions or the DLC. Most of the DLC is being worked on now, it wasn't pulled from the game. Some of it is likely assets put to the side until the game goes gold, and then they can work on it again. Bioware has done the exact same thing and gamers should be pleased. not cynical. Free content is free content.

[Hiemoth]

No you don´t have to respect them and you can continue to blame them for taking potshots, even if they never said DLC such as "Legacy" or "Omega" weren´t substantial in their eyes. But you have yet to convince me of their hipocrisy if that was your goal. I was never charged for things that are cosmetic or just extra items. Things I think aren´t substantial.

 

Now they charge for content that should offer hours of gameplay, estimated at around 10 hrs + 20hrs. And they said, again, that if they would charge for content/dlc/the devil, it would only be for "substantial" DLC.

 

That's fair, my goal was never to convince anyone what they should think, only that I continue to think of them as hypocrites. And by the way, yeah they never specified that Legacy or Omega were insubstantial in their eyes because they never specified which DLCs were. They spoke in generalities, referring to DLCs in general as anti-consumerist unless it was the mythcial "substanstial", giving that magical time frame which by the way almost no DLCs so far has met.

[Hiemoth]

There is no hypocrisy about their expansions or the DLC. Most of the DLC is being worked on now, it wasn't pulled from the game. Some of it is likely assets put to the side until the game goes gold, and then they can work on it again. Bioware has done the exact same thing and gamers should be pleased. not cynical. Free content is free content.

 

But your missing the central argument. No one in this thread has really been accusing CDPR being in the wrong for doing that, the hypocricy statement comes from the fact that before this they made several statements about how priced DLC was anti-consumerist and alluded it to ripping off customers. They even specifically have spoken about things taken from the games and now their DLC willl apparently take place in an existing level within the game which means it needs to be co-ordinated at the development stage of the game.

 

To repeat myself once again, I have no issues with them charging for their DLCs. They are investing resources and time in it, so it is more than fair for them to ask for recompensation for it. The issue for me is that they have previously spoken and take potshots against companies such as Bioware who charge for their DLCs. That is why I consider them hypocrites.

[In Exile]

There is no hypocrisy about their expansions or the DLC. Most of the DLC is being worked on now, it wasn't pulled from the game. Some of it is likely assets put to the side until the game goes gold, and then they can work on it again. Bioware has done the exact same thing and gamers should be pleased. not cynical. Free content is free content.

 

As Hiemoth says, you've missed the mark on the criticism, but I think also hit the nail on the head. For example, as I said on the last page, I'm supportive of paid DLC as a way for developers to recoup costs without having to reach out to a wider audience to the detriment of the niche audience to which I belong as a player. 

 

And you're very much right that Bioware's designed DLC in exactly this way - that's the point. CDPR in the past has criticized this exact practice that they've now adopted, and contributed to the vitriol that infects VG development. Now they've implemented this policy, while still maintaining the narrative that they better than other developers because they produce paid "expansions" and not paid "DLC", and it's insulting on two levels. The first is the aforementioned hypocrisy. The second is that they seem to take us for idiots - that we wouldn't see through the shell game we're running when they change the name of what they're selling. 

 

As I say each time the topic of CDPR comes up, I enjoy their products. But I have absolutely no respect for them or their company. I suspect that they don't care since they have my money. 

[duckley]

This is a yes and. Yes I love DA:I and I love TW3. Ok I love DA a bit more.... but they are both great games in their own right.

 

I believe there are some Bioware tweets congratulating the company and the game.

[Majestic Jazz]

Okay so CDPR took a 180 and is now charging consumers for DLC that adds 10 hours and 20 hours of story to an already story heavy game, more story oriented than DAI. But what people here want to ignore is that UNLIKE Bioware, when it comes to the smaller, non-story/item oriented dlc packs, they are giving them away for free whereas Bioware charges for them.

At the end of the day people who hate on CDPR are just fanboys. Yes, I am a Bioware fan and more specifically a Mass Effect fan. However more so... I am a WRPG fan and any company that is willing to push the genre with their ideas I am all for. I could careless if it is Bioware, Bethesda, or CDPR. As a WRPG fan, I get nothing by seeing a WRPG game fail. But I do get something when they succeed which is why I root for CDPR as well as Bioware, Bethesda, Obsidian or any other WRPG developer.

[Elhanan]

Okay so CDPR took a 180 and is now charging consumers for DLC that adds 10 hours and 20 hours of story to an already story heavy game, more story oriented than DAI. But what people here want to ignore is that UNLIKE Bioware, when it comes to the smaller, non-story/item oriented dlc packs, they are giving them away for free whereas Bioware charges for them.

And what some people ignore is that Bioware also has free DLC; not all requires purchase.

[Majestic Jazz]

And what some people ignore is that Bioware also has free DLC; not all requires purchase.

I know but is ALL of Bioware's smaller DLC free like TW3 or just some? That is my point that people ignore.

[Elhanan]

Am able to decide for myself what DLC would be a good addition to my game, be it free or not. Nobody is forcing me to make such purchases.

[MyKingdomCold]

Some but it seems that some of the free DLC for TW3 is relatively minor. And I don't think they would dare charge for them. Like one of the free DLCs is an alternate look for Yennefer. That's it.  One alternate look for one character and it's "stand alone" DLC? 

 

Oh, and my point was simply the idea of the 16 free DLC for TW3 sounds good but are all minor like that?  Couldn't they have just bundled them up into maybe 4 or 5 free DLC packs?  I guess not since 16 sounds more impressive than 4 or 5.

[LinksOcarina]

As Hiemoth says, you've missed the mark on the criticism, but I think also hit the nail on the head. For example, as I said on the last page, I'm supportive of paid DLC as a way for developers to recoup costs without having to reach out to a wider audience to the detriment of the niche audience to which I belong as a player. 

 

And you're very much right that Bioware's designed DLC in exactly this way - that's the point. CDPR in the past has criticized this exact practice that they've now adopted, and contributed to the vitriol that infects VG development. Now they've implemented this policy, while still maintaining the narrative that they better than other developers because they produce paid "expansions" and not paid "DLC", and it's insulting on two levels. The first is the aforementioned hypocrisy. The second is that they seem to take us for idiots - that we wouldn't see through the shell game we're running when they change the name of what they're selling. 

 

As I say each time the topic of CDPR comes up, I enjoy their products. But I have absolutely no respect for them or their company. I suspect that they don't care since they have my money. 

 

Pretty much hit. That kind of is the point in the end.

 

As for the smaller little bits of content, frankly...even if it's free it kind of pales in comparison to Black Emporium and the Multiplayer DLC. Quantity does not matter in this case, as does the price.

[Eelectrica]

The free DLC for W3 does seem like a cynical marketing exercise tbh.
The paid DLC/expansion packs will be judged on their merits soon enough. If they're substantial then awesome. If they're of the low quality of BLTPS's DLC (as an example of poor DLC packs) then CDPR should be taken to task accordingly.

[Majestic Jazz]

The paid DLC/expansion packs will be judged on their merits soon enough. If they're substantial then awesome. If they're of the low quality of BLTPS's DLC (as an example of poor DLC packs) then CDPR should be taken to task accordingly.

Considering the quality of the storytelling of TW3 thus far, I doubt their 2 story DLCs will be bad.

[Eelectrica]

Considering the quality of the storytelling of TW3 thus far, I doubt their 2 story DLCs will be bad.

Hope you're right and I'm sure you will be but still I'm not willing to say something is great until I've made my own mind up. Been burnt before. Not from CDPR granted so they have benefit of the doubt.

[dsl08002]

Success in marketing maybe and compared to DA2 a better game, However it is not even close in high quality storytelling as DAO was. So in marketing a success, but as a game in the franchise not so much, not much you can describe a game where the developers play safe.