So where are the 1s and 0s for TW3? How come TW3 has not fell victim to the metacritic nonsense?
DAI is open world. It isnt seamless open world like Witcher or Skyrim, but it is open world.
Also DAI got great reviews, but I am talking about general consumer opinion here, not media reviews. Both games are financially successful but DAI's reputation success is another story. Again, living in this BSN bubble. All around the net WRPG gamers are saying how TW3 did things way better than DAI and that TW3 represents the future of the genre, not DAI. The last time people pointed to a Bioware game as the future for the genre it was Mass Effect 1, again claiming my point that ME is Bioware's main dish.
DAI got high praise in a time where there were no other current gen WRPGs in the market. Many people bought it but some enjoyed it. This is my point. DAI fans just want to point to review scores, goty awards, and EA's claim that DAI is Bioware's most successful launch and stick only to that and ignore all other criticisms. Again, I am a Bioware fan but I an not a blind fanboy either. I understand that DAI is not Bioware's best effort and that it needs serious improvememt moving forward.
Like I said people buy products all the time in which they regretted the purchase.
A few pages back I posted a comparison between TW3's metacritic user score and DAI's and of course people here discredit it. People here just cannot fathom that DAI is a pretty average game released in a year full of average or below average games that did nothing to progress the wrpg genre. DAI left wrpg fans wanting more and TW3 gave them that "more".
Because it's not cool to hate on CDPR, yet. The grumblings that accompany such disdain have begun on its board and elsewhere, though. It's mostly centered on hate towards this story's gutted politics and the botched connectivity with the previous two games, but it's also about the game's emerging bugs (XP, disappearing crowns) and graphical downgrades.
And why do you think that is? I mean, once upon a time (during the NWN/KOTOR days) Bioware was virtually off limits from consumer criticism. Yes, you had your outliers and fanboys of other brands come in and bash Baulder's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect 1. But Bioware was basically that shining diamond that you dare not try to break. But things have changed for Bioware, especially when they went under the EA umbrella. Many of their prominent writers like Drew Karpyshyn are no longer around, the Doctors are no longer around and Casey Hudson is now gone.
In a way, I agree with you about CDPR. In fact, it is cool to actually love CDPR and cool to hate on Bioware mainly because Bioware has EA attached to them while CDPR remains that cool "independent" studio that is sticking a middle finger to the suits & ties of the industry. I mean when CDPR does stuff like this:
You can see why CDPR is considered by many to be the "gamers developer" while companies like Bioware are the "corporate developer". It is sort of like the Rebels vs the Galactic Empire with CDPR being the Rebels and Bioware being the Empire.
With that being said, could this last forever? Right now CDPR is the fan favorite among many gamers while Bioware seems to not be able to catch a break. DA2 they got a lot of hate, ME3 they got a lot of hate, SWTOR they got a lot of hate but it has since leveled, and DAI has not gotten much hate, but it sure isn't getting much praise either, it is sort of that neutral game that is satisfying everyone until Mass Effect 4 comes in. This is why I always ask just how successful (reputation wise) is DAI because while it might not have the tsunami of complaints like other 2014 games such as Watchdogs or Destiny, it sure isn't getting a lot of praise in the same way TW3 is. Nobody is saying that DAI represents a new paradigm for how WRPGs should be developed in the future but many are saying that for TW3. With Mass Effect 3 people will either REALLY love or REALLY hate. That path will begin next week once ME4 is revealed at E3.
Either way, you bring up a good point about people not wanting to hate on CDPR just yet. CDPR does seem to have a lot of momentum and they are smart to milk that momentum as long as they want before they begin to talk about Cyberpunk 2077.
You can see why CDPR is considered by many to be the "gamers developer" while companies like Bioware are the "corporate developer". It is sort of like the Rebels vs the Galactic Empire with CDPR being the Rebels and Bioware being the Empire.
Ever ask yourself why DAI got 1s and 0s and TW3 didnt?
Also I am not looking for opinions I seek. No matter where I go, I am ALWAYS seeing people praise TW3 while claiming how DAI fell short such as fetch quest and TW3s better side quest and open world.
I can give you examples but all you are going to do is dismiss it.
Admit it, DAI sold well but TW3 sold well also and is also being praised more post release. That makes TW3 more successful.
If Metacritic is crap, then how come TW3 wasnt a victim of this same crap?
The rebels and the galactic empire are both cool, though. And neither applies, so this is a bad analogy.
If we're arguing about which giant, soulless corporate entity is cooler than the other, I think both EA and CDprojekt edge out Activision. They're all suits and ties either way, and there's nothing anyone can do about that.
With that being said, could this last forever? Right now CDPR is the fan favorite among many gamers while Bioware seems to not be able to catch a break. DA2 they got a lot of hate, ME3 they got a lot of hate, SWTOR they got a lot of hate but it has since leveled, and DAI has not gotten much hate, but it sure isn't getting much praise either, it is sort of that neutral game that is satisfying everyone until Mass Effect 4 comes in.
It's interesting to note that the period of "hate" you've identified seems to line right on up with their adoption of this "cinematic" approach that you love so much (and which was a drastic departure from Bioware's earlier games, whereas DAI is a return to form).
In any event, there's no way ME4 could be as overall disappointing as ME2 and ME3. So I'm excited for that. Excited for Cyberpunk too, for that matter, assuming it ever materializes. I'm suspicious that CDProjekt is more likely to pull a Valve and just cash their Witcher and GOG money rather than actually develop games, but I like being wrong about these things.
I wasn't there, so I can' the sure, but I remember reading NWN wasn't really well received launch.
Not to mention DAO being already criticized for Not being a true Bioware game and being dumbed down.
You mean a budget in USD that was about half of what EA spent, and by PPP probably equivalent if not greater? With a profit margin in foreign currency, that made the actual marginal returns on their investment proportionally greater?
I'm sure EA would care. But EA isn't "the industry". But anyway, this absurd fantasy of CDPR Red - financed by the biggest game distributor in Europe - as a tiny polish arthouse developer has to stop. I believe the current figure is something like 65 million USD in development costs, which is clear AAA territory and, by comparison with EA given the currency stuff, is probably equal to or greater than what was spend on DA:I in marketing and development.
NWN OC was probably the worst game put out to date by Bioware.
People complain about dai fetch quests. NWN main plot was fetch the four things. In every chapter. It was also buggy, and just a mess. SoU and HotU were wonderful, as were the smaller mods they came out with.
A Dance With Rogues.
The DLC situation really shows the different reactions CDRP and Bioware get. People have been praising CDRP left and right for their "Free DLC program" - Bioware giving out free MP and SP content for Inquisition hasn't met the same level of enthusiasm. On the other hand, if Bioware had announced a $25 expansion pass before even launching the game, they'd have gotten a lot more backlash than CDRP did.
A Dance With Rogues.
The DLC situation really shows the different reactions CDRP and Bioware get. People have been praising CDRP left and right for their "Free DLC program" - Bioware giving out free MP and SP content for Inquisition hasn't met the same level of enthusiasm. On the other hand, if Bioware had announced a $25 expansion pass before even launching the game, they'd have gotten a lot more backlash than CDRP did.
I dont get whats the deal about these "free DLC" anyway. Bioware could have cut out some maps and put them as a "free DLC" right from the start, too ._.
I dont get whats the deal about these "free DLC" anyway. Bioware could have cut out some maps and put them as a "free DLC" right from the start, too ._.
As others have said, most of the same people who are falling over themselves praising CDPR for their "16 free DLCs" would be excoriating Bioware for shipping an unfinished game.
Because Bioware.
As others have said, most of the same people who are falling over themselves praising CDPR for their "16 free DLCs" would be excoriating Bioware for shipping an unfinished game.
Because Bioware.
Or it could be EA took over as the sole publisher of Bioware. The cinematic approach actually started with KOTOR and was enhanced with ME1 and during that time, people LOVED Bioware. So if the cinematics is what turned people then the hate would have started in 2003, not 2010 which was when ME2 released under EA.It's interesting to note that the period of "hate" you've identified seems to line right on up with their adoption of this "cinematic" approach that you love so much (and which was a drastic departure from Bioware's earlier games, whereas DAI is a return to form).
I liked Kingmaker myself.
Recommend the Aielund mods; one of the better Player made series available.
You mean a budget in USD that was about half of what EA spent, and by PPP probably equivalent if not greater? With a profit margin in foreign currency, that made the actual marginal returns on their investment proportionally greater?
I'm sure EA would care. But EA isn't "the industry". But anyway, this absurd fantasy of CDPR Red - financed by the biggest game distributor in Europe - as a tiny polish arthouse developer has to stop. I believe the current figure is something like 65 million USD in development costs, which is clear AAA territory and, by comparison with EA given the currency stuff, is probably equal to or greater than what was spend on DA:I in marketing and development.
This is very true at this point. CD Projekt Red is basically the European version of Valve; self-sufficient and can take all the time in the world to get stuff done because of a healthy revenue stream out of digital distribution.
I should also point out...do you really think EA gives a damn when their game is already successful in their eyes? One again I hate to say this, but the public perception of a game rarely matters when it comes to the financial well-being of the game.
Honestly, I'd do a tap dance if Bioware was to do a season pass deal. That would be wonderful.
@The Elder King
I forgot to mention that DAO was in development about 2003. Bioware had a hard time lining up a publisher iirc, until the EA buyout.
They did have a season pass deal; the Cerberus Network for Mass Effect 2, which offered free and paid DLC, through the network.
People didn't like the Cerberus Network from what I remember...I thought it was brilliant because you get extra stuff along with big stuff.
The DLC situation really shows the different reactions CDRP and Bioware get. People have been praising CDRP left and right for their "Free DLC program" - Bioware giving out free MP and SP content for Inquisition hasn't met the same level of enthusiasm. On the other hand, if Bioware had announced a $25 expansion pass before even launching the game, they'd have gotten a lot more backlash than CDRP did.
This plays into the semantics debate I mentioned earlier. If anything CDProjekt Red is just good at wordplay to get over on the feelings of downloading DLC.
And god forbid BioWare announces something before the game is released. It will be From Ashes all over again...
I get that people applaud CD Projekt Red for all of this free stuff, but let's face facts, its the same damn thing as Inquisition, only it's CD Projekt Red saying to the crowd "Hey, were gamers, like you, and we respect you guys."
Does BioWare need to do the same thing to get the same amount of respect. I know people like that, but to me, it comes off as disingenuous when anyone does that,especially when selling a product to consumers.
I am sure CD Projekt Red means it too, but do they need to pander to be in the good graces of people? That is what it feels like, in the end, if you ask me.
Or it could be EA took over as the sole publisher of Bioware. The cinematic approach actually started with KOTOR and was enhanced with ME1 and during that time, people LOVED Bioware. So if the cinematics is what turned people then the hate would have started in 2003, not 2010 which was when ME2 released under EA.
Believe what you want and blame it on any factor. But the matter is that people are loving CDPR and TW3. You can dig up any tinfold theory you want but at the end of the day, the pulse is that TW3 = future of WRPGs and CDPR = The "cool" developers.
.... Only till they do something some gamers don't like and as we established already, it could be everything. It's not any sort of tinfoil theory - it's a fact of life.
Anyhoo, I definitely wish CDPR all the best, especially that this the only local studio that so far can produce high quality AAA games. I mean, there's Techland as well, but... yeah, their games aren't necessarily as hyped over. Definitely not after they didn't follow up with delivering experience as powerful as a pretty famous trailer to Dead Island.
But I just know how quickly fortunes can turn after one or two muck-ups. Poles can be as unforgiving as gamers are and can turn even on their favorites if they do something that may threaten their "national pride" - and Witcher franchise being good is VERY much a matter of national pride, as stupid and shallow as it sounds.
It's one of our flagship products; something that people can look at and say "we can create things as well as they can do on the West", which matters from a perspective of a country that has only been politically and economically free for merely 3 decades.
Heck, when Obama visited our country in 2011 he was given a copy of Witcher 2 by our Prime Minister! I am so not kidding.
Nearly everybody here is rooting for game's success and if you thing that it doesn't help CDPR deliver the quality experience, think again.
They did have a season pass deal; the Cerberus Network for Mass Effect 2, which offered free and paid DLC, through the network.
People didn't like the Cerberus Network from what I remember...I thought it was brilliant because you get extra stuff along with big stuff.
But I just know how quickly fortunes can turn after one or two muck-ups. Poles can be as unforgiving as gamers are and can turn even on their favorites if they do something that may threaten their "national pride" - and Witcher franchise being good is VERY much a matter of national pride, as stupid and shallow as it sounds.
Or it could be EA took over as the sole publisher of Bioware. The cinematic approach actually started with KOTOR and was enhanced with ME1 and during that time, people LOVED Bioware. So if the cinematics is what turned people then the hate would have started in 2003, not 2010 which was when ME2 released under EA.
Started there, sure. Agreed in that it didn't get bad enough to ruin a game until ME2 and ME3, but the direction that everything but the actual gameplay went already soured things for me anyway.
In any event, I like CDPR, and I want to play TW3. I'm not predisposed against it, and I have good reasons for disliking the previous games (namely that they're not fun to play). But I don't think that it's any more the "future" of WRPGs than anything else is. At least I hope it's not, because sometimes I'd rather play a party based RPG as opposed to an action game (and TW3 is pretty emphatically an action game). Not to mention, a game with a custom protagonist, or varied romances not baked into the plot, or any number of things that Bioware does very well that other developers don't do (and that TW hasn't even touched).
At the end of the day, CDPR's fans continue to be the most annoying part about them. To be fair, I readily believe the same about Bioware's fans. Gamers are just generally terrible.
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