30 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

I have already complained  the lack of Origins background in DAI for the Inquisitor, but now that i have read some pages of the book in question,i have come to realize how superior is DAO as a product.

In DAO i have picked the Human Noble origin, that Origins was (imho) well done, even if we were not allowed to learn more about our parents, now with the World of thedas volume 2 i can learn more about the seawolf (Eleanor Cousland) the amazing mother of my Warden,and i can improve me experience towards this Origins that was my favourite of the game,this improve also my relationship with my warden,so i can give to the HoF a concrete past, rather than headcanon everything.

In comparison the Inquisitor's past still remains mostly up to my "headcanon"  

maybe the nightmare demons have eat to much of my inquisitor's memory?

to the point that he is become a tranquil who do not remember anything about his life?

I sincerely believe that the well of Sorrow is the only way to fill the inquisitor's empty head,at least s/he will have something in his/her head,something to remember.

[caradoc2000]

Myself, I prefer to "headcanon" my protagonists as much as possible. Otherwise I would be playing Bioware's character rather than my own. This is one of the reasons I am not overly thrilled to play established characters with canon backgrounds - like Luke Skywalker or Geralt of Rivia.

[b10d1v]

If we back out and just look at the big picture.

DAO was a success as game development goes, but lacked a lot of story.

DA2 tells more of the story with cutscenes, but is a big step backward in game play development.  Assume cutscenes was the test article and had to get something out the door.

DAI: new character controller (includes cutscenes or a parallel process) and computational rendering focused on shifting load from memory systems to processing -bottleneck reduction.  Another stepping stone?

 

So what is next -the game they really wanted to make? How about something new?

Assuming the bugs in the impressive graphics are solved to some degree and character controller is more refined and faster.  They could make a very impressive game set in a realistic dynamic world with characters having independent behaviors, cutscenes, dialog and values- now tell a good consistent story.  

[JadeDragon]

I was disappointed World of Thedas did not at least touch more of the backgrounds of the inqusitior's family,clan, or group history. They could have at least gave us some background info on Bann Trevelyan or Trevelyan family(still waiting to see there unique heraldry), House Cadash, The Dalish Clan, or anything that we can tie to inquisitor. I use headcanon for all my canon characters but I still like to see some connection to there past either in the form of family or whoever fits that role best.  

[Dai Grepher]

Except that Eleanor's new backstory, as well as some other parts of WoT2, contradict the pre-established lore.

 

As for head-canon, her new backstory conflicts with mine. In my playthrough my Hero was 30 at the beginning of Origins. According to this new storyline, Eleanor and Bryce didn't even marry until as early as 9:03, but probably later. That makes Fergus 26 at the most and the Hero 25 at the most, though he's probably years younger than Fergus.

 

Because of the many mistakes made throughout the WoT books, I don't consider them to be canon. But even so, I would have preferred they had not tampered with the backstories of anyone related to the human noble. Stuff like this should be left to headcanon.

 

I like the male human mage's lack of backstory. It allowed me to make one for him. The game itself even offers choices of backstory through conversation with other characters, like Josephine and Vivienne.

 

Also, I have to point out that I put scars on my male human mage's face as well, which means that too gives him history. His words to Josephine about the templars at the Ostwick circle match that history. Another thing, my Inquisitor was around 40, and romanced Cassandra who was 36 at the least. So do I want BioWare stepping in and making a backstory for my Inquisitor so that he's a young adult romancing a woman who could be twice his age? No thanks.

[Magdalena11]

I think, in terms of the game, you're writing your own family background.  That's why there are those introduction questions when you're talking with companions, and especially Josephine.  For instance, a human noble is not heir to the family, but is a minor noble from a city-state that's considered backwater.  You can tell Josie if you were on good terms with your family and have the inquisition mediate a family squabble.  You get the chance to say whether they're political or religious or whatever.  It might not be as cool as a playable origin, but in a way, it's better.

 

The Cousland origin always had the same story and except for a few personality responses, its course was completely linear.  The inquisitor can't play the time before Haven, but can decide more about the Trevelyans' (Lavellans', Cadashes' or Adaars') personalities and influence their course in the story.

[KaiserShep]

I think, in terms of the game, you're writing your own family background.  That's why there are those introduction questions when you're talking with companions, and especially Josephine.  For instance, a human noble is not heir to the family, but is a minor noble from a city-state that's considered backwater.  You can tell Josie if you were on good terms with your family and have the inquisition mediate a family squabble.  You get the chance to say whether they're political or religious or whatever.  It might not be as cool as a playable origin, but in a way, it's better.

 

The Cousland origin always had the same story and except for a few personality responses, its course was completely linear.  The inquisitor can't play the time before Haven, but can decide more about the Trevelyans' (Lavellans', Cadashes' or Adaars') personalities and influence their course in the story.

 

I really liked this aspect of it myself. If I wanted to have a character that was typically aloof and steered clear of of the family's religious affiliations or politicking I could do that, or if I wanted to have them be really close, I could reflect that in dialogue too. In the human mage class, Vivienne will ask about the first enchanter that was killed in the rebellion, and you could either establish that you didn't really know her well, or she was a mentor that was considerably close to you, and this could even be used as motivation in how to deal with the mages and Templars. It would have been something to be able to actually play out this origin, but I'm certain that the first enchanter would treat us like we were a valued pupil right from the start.

[Dai Grepher]

I think that was a senior enchanter, not the first enchanter. But that's one part I didn't really understand. In another part of Vivienne's story she said she was only at Ostwick for a short time as a child before she was transferred. So how did she establish any such admiration for this teacher in such a short amount of time. In my playthrough, my mage was a senior enchanter since he was old enough to be one, so I think I had him say that he didn't know her that well. The other option, that he disagreed with her, carried some implication that she was his teacher as well, so I didn't go with that. Plus, he and Vivienne agreed on everything, so it wouldn't have made sense. But that's why I like this method, the player gets to form the backstory through dialog choices. That's what really makes the companion characters worth while.

[vertigomez]

It would've been nice to hear more about Cadash's dwarf mafia Carta family.

[9TailsFox]

Myself, I prefer to "headcanon" my protagonists as much as possible. Otherwise I would be playing Bioware's character rather than my own. This is one of the reasons I am not overly thrilled to play established characters with canon backgrounds - like Luke Skywalker or Geralt of Rivia.

Revan. My favorite character. He have established past and most amazing plot twist.

[In Exile]

Except that Eleanor's new backstory, as well as some other parts of WoT2, contradict the pre-established lore.

As for head-canon, her new backstory conflicts with mine. In my playthrough my Hero was 30 at the beginning of Origins. According to this new storyline, Eleanor and Bryce didn't even marry until as early as 9:03, but probably later. That makes Fergus 26 at the most and the Hero 25 at the most, though he's probably years younger than Fergus.

Because of the many mistakes made throughout the WoT books, I don't consider them to be canon. But even so, I would have preferred they had not tampered with the backstories of anyone related to the human noble. Stuff like this should be left to headcanon.

I like the male human mage's lack of backstory. It allowed me to make one for him. The game itself even offers choices of backstory through conversation with other characters, like Josephine and Vivienne.

Also, I have to point out that I put scars on my male human mage's face as well, which means that too gives him history. His words to Josephine about the templars at the Ostwick circle match that history. Another thing, my Inquisitor was around 40, and romanced Cassandra who was 36 at the least. So do I want BioWare stepping in and making a backstory for my Inquisitor so that he's a young adult romancing a woman who could be twice his age? No thanks.

Bioware was careful to say that you have a lot of flexibility with your age in DAI (though I personally think being middle-age is harder with certain backgrounds). However in DAO you are canonically a youth. While there are lots of date-related issues with WOT having the HOF range from 18-25 is not one of them.

That being said I very much favour the idea of the Inquisitor being a decade younger than Cassandra. One, because age is completely BS as a cut-off past a certain point (i.e., when someone gets into their late 20s) and the age gap isn't substantial (e.g. 10 -15 or so years).

[In Exile]

I think that was a senior enchanter, not the first enchanter. But that's one part I didn't really understand. In another part of Vivienne's story she said she was only at Ostwick for a short time as a child before she was transferred. So how did she establish any such admiration for this teacher in such a short amount of time. In my playthrough, my mage was a senior enchanter since he was old enough to be one, so I think I had him say that he didn't know her that well. The other option, that he disagreed wit her, carried some implication that she was his teacher as well, so I didn't go with that. Plus, he and Vivienne agreed on everything, so it wouldn't have made sense. But that's why I like this method, the player gets to form the backstory through dialog choices. That's what really makes the companion characters worth while.

She's full of it. It's not a plothole per se as much as it is Vivienne trying to ingratiate herself. Her story is all about her taking advantage of fortuitous coincidence to advance herself (e.g. Bastien falling in love with her at first sight or his passing).

[Shechinah]

(Highlight for "Knights of the Old Republic" spoilers) The case of Revan is something I consider amazing because you essentially have two characters; One that is more or less established and one that is established by the player and their action without contradicting the established character.You can build your character and still have it be yours in what events transpired in their lives as they know it and "remember.It is a pre-defined  and self-defined character in one.  

[vertigomez]

Bioware was careful to say that you have a lot of flexibility with your age in DAI (though I personally think being middle-age is harder with certain backgrounds). However in DAO you are canonically a youth. While there are lots of date-related issues with WOT having the HOF range from 18-25 is not one of them.

That being said I very much favour the idea of the Inquisitor being a decade younger than Cassandra. One, because age is completely BS as a cut-off past a certain point (i.e., when someone gets into their late 20s) and the age gap isn't substantial (e.g. 10 -15 or so years).

Yeah, this. There's almost no way for the Warden to be in their 30s at the start of DAO, unless you're just willfully disregarding everything the game tells you. Bryce consistently refers to you as pup (which, okay, that could just be a dad thing...), you've just been given your first "adult" job of watching the house while Daddy and Big Bro ride off to war, people are speculating about maybe hooking you up with somebody's kid... you're treated like a child playing grown-up, and then **** gets real.

The mage character is considered "young" for their Harrowing, which normally happens anywhere between late teens and early twenties (where on earth did I read this..?), but they're just that talented. City elf's still considered a child, dwarf noble's just been given their first honors, etc... headcanon all you want, but the origins themselves only give you so much wiggle room. And that's not even taking into account the ages listed in the toolset.

On the other hand, the Inquisitor being 40+ works just fine, though I don't see why you have to be older than Cassandra just to romance her...

[Kantr]

If we back out and just look at the big picture.

DAO was a success as game development goes, but lacked a lot of story.

DA2 tells more of the story with cutscenes, but is a big step backward in game play development.  Assume cutscenes was the test article and had to get something out the door.

DAI: new character controller (includes cutscenes or a parallel process) and computational rendering focused on shifting load from memory systems to processing -bottleneck reduction.  Another stepping stone?

 

So what is next -the game they really wanted to make? How about something new?

Assuming the bugs in the impressive graphics are solved to some degree and character controller is more refined and faster.  They could make a very impressive game set in a realistic dynamic world with characters having independent behaviors, cutscenes, dialog and values- now tell a good consistent story.  

What does that have to do with lore regarding the parents of the inquistitor eh?

 

@op

 

My complaint with the book was too much of it was about the founding of the chantry (which we already knew) and Andraste, again with nothing new.

I wish we had info on skyhold and various other things like the fade rifts.

[In Exile]

I think the warrior or rogue Trevelyan has a more difficult time justifying being older than mid 20s (given that you're meant to be given over to the chantry). And I think it's tough to push for more than mid 30s with a Dalish mage (because you'd imagine the presumptive Keeper would need to be a lot younger than the incumbent or you'd risk losing all your leaders to old age in quick succession).

I think all other backgrounds allow you to be as old as you like. Bioware likely said 40ish as the top range more for how long-lived they need the Inquisitor to be plot-wise (but even that you can headcanon)

[Rawgrim]

Lets hope the devs actually reads the World of Thedas books before the next DA game. DA:I was riddled with lore-breaking stuff.

[Dai Grepher]

Bioware was careful to say that you have a lot of flexibility with your age in DAI (though I personally think being middle-age is harder with certain backgrounds). However in DAO you are canonically a youth. While there are lots of date-related issues with WOT having the HOF range from 18-25 is not one of them.

That being said I very much favour the idea of the Inquisitor being a decade younger than Cassandra. One, because age is completely BS as a cut-off past a certain point (i.e., when someone gets into their late 20s) and the age gap isn't substantial (e.g. 10 -15 or so years).

 

I agree with the first point that being middle-aged is a stretch for certain classes and origins. I think human mage fits perfectly. I never ran into anything that implied the human mage was a youngster.

 

I disagree with everything else you wrote. The human noble being 18-25 is a fine opinion, and you are welcome to hold it, but it's just your opinion. 30 is still a youth, especially by comparison to the others in the castle. Bryce, Eleanor, Howe, all old, and they look it. Duncan as well to some extent. Then there's Fergus and Oriana. Fergus looks 35. Oriana can't be much younger than him. Oren looks about 8, which puts his parents at about 27 when they had him. If they had him at 19, that would make Fergus only 27 in the game, and he's no 27. Then take Iona. She has a daughter, Amethyne whom you can see in the alienage later in the game. The daughter looks and sounds to be about 10 or so. Figure Iona had her at 18, that makes Iona 28 in Origins. Look at Dairren and his mother Landra. His mother is old. Which means he's probably around 30 himself. Look at Nan. Older than dirt. She was the human noble's nanny during childhood. Mallol. She knew the human noble since he was a baby, and she seems to be as old as Cassandra is in Inquisition, which is about 36 - 40. But Mallol doesn't like the human noble calling her "Mother" even though she calls him "child", likely because she is only about 10 years his senior. In other words, they are close enough in age to where it sounds weird to have him call her "Mother" even though that is her title. Now figure the noble is 20 and Mallol is 40. What would be so weird about calling her "Mother" in that case? She would be old enough for it. Her preference only makes sense if she's not old enough to be his mother.

 

By the way, I don't argue that the human noble can't be 18 (though that is unlikely given Eleanor's age), I only argue that 30 is possible and has evidence to support it.

 

Age is important. It's a matter of experience and commonality. An older woman romancing a younger man is illogical for both of them. She has little in common with him, and he has certain needs and goals that an older woman would find difficult to meet for him.

[Dai Grepher]

Yeah, this. There's almost no way for the Warden to be in their 30s at the start of DAO, unless you're just willfully disregarding everything the game tells you. Bryce consistently refers to you as pup (which, okay, that could just be a dad thing...), you've just been given your first "adult" job of watching the house while Daddy and Big Bro ride off to war, people are speculating about maybe hooking you up with somebody's kid... you're treated like a child playing grown-up, and then **** gets real.

The mage character is considered "young" for their Harrowing, which normally happens anywhere between late teens and early twenties (where on earth did I read this..?), but they're just that talented. City elf's still considered a child, dwarf noble's just been given their first honors, etc... headcanon all you want, but the origins themselves only give you so much wiggle room. And that's not even taking into account the ages listed in the toolset.

On the other hand, the Inquisitor being 40+ works just fine, though I don't see why you have to be older than Cassandra just to romance her...

 

There is a way. Anora was approaching 30 in Origins, which means she was 29 at the start of it. If it's possible for her, it's possible for the human noble.

 

The term "pup" is used because they couldn't program the character's name, obviously, and using the generic "son" or "daughter" would not sound right. "Pup" could simply be a reference to the youngest child, and having been called that during childhood the nickname probably stuck and was continued into adulthood. This is true even if your human noble is 18. That age is also too old to be getting called "Pup".

 

That wasn't his first job. He's had other before that, which is why people speculate that he is more likely to become the next teyrn rather than Fergus.

 

The toolset is not canon.

[trevelyan_shep]

Illogical? I've seen my fair share of older women getting together with younger men. I don't see why Cassandra couldn't get into a relationship with a younger Inquisitor.

[Teddie Sage]

I gave up all hope on my characters background when I understood that it wouldn't go beyond the introduction talks and the war table missions. The Inquisition for me remains the same character, just with a different appearance and a different class. Same role, same personality (as I never pick the third options) and only different options of romances. Their background could be anything you want them to be, really. Same as their last names, they can easily be ditched and you can create something from scratch. It's not as defined as Hawke or the Origins, but it works for hardcore role players. Sadly for me, I'd rather have a Hawke 2.0.

[Fireheart]

So Eleanor Cousland is mentioned in WoT? Are any of the other relatives/friends from the other origin stories mentioned? Mainly, anything from the City Elf origin?

[Dai Grepher]

Illogical? I've seen my fair share of older women getting together with younger men. I don't see why Cassandra couldn't get into a relationship with a younger Inquisitor.

 

Perhaps they do it to feel young again. Or feel in charge since they are older or more experienced. But I just think true romances are ones of equals, and the man and woman should be the same age in that case.

 

Cassandra is set in her ways, and she is at an age where this is her last chance. She will want something that will endure, not a fling, which a young man is most likely to want. That's why she talks so much about ending it or not be able to continue it. So she either wants a commitment or a quick end to it. Talking to her I get the sense that she feels she doesn't deserve true love. And I think that's why she needs a man who is her age or a little older, to give her that sense of security and stability. A young man has many options open to him. An older gentleman is refined, disciplined, and... well... mature. Cass needs a man who is well educated, focused, wise, and considerate. A man who has been tested, and has overcome trials, just as she has. She needs a man can relate to and who can relate to her. They need to be able to confide in each other, and for that they need trust. For trust they need understanding, and to understand each other they need to be compatible and have things in common. And then of course there's the matter of growing old together. If Cass romances a man in his 20s, she will become old long before he does. He will then be "stuck" with a woman who can't keep up with him. That's why are gaps typically don't work, especially when it's the female who is older.

 

Picture Cailan and Anora. She was older than him by about five years. They were raised together. I remember my human noble talking to him, and listening to him was like listening to the human noble's nephew Oren. Cailan was naïve and immature. And though the generational gap was not that great between him and Anora, the personality differences really showed. Part of this is because Anora was older than him and led him around. She was the elder. She was in charge. Cailan even deferred to her in matters of rule since she was smarter than him as well. They were never a true match for each other, this is evident in Cailan's cheating, and Anora's indifference to it. To Anora, Cailan was always nothing more than a little brother.

 

That's why I say, the human noble should be Anora's age, and the Inquisitor should be Cassandra's age if romances are to take place.

[Shadow Fox]

(Highlight for "Knights of the Old Republic" spoilers) The case of Revan is something I consider amazing because you essentially have two characters; One that is more or less established and one that is established by the player and their action without contradicting the established character.You can build your character and still have it be yours in what events transpired in their lives as they know it and "remember.It is a pre-defined  and self-defined character in one.  

I liked that aspect in KOA too I imagine my kindly, chronic do-gooder Dark Elf had a heroic bsod when she found out she was a psychopathic,cold blooded assassin before her death and rebirth.

[Aren]

Myself, I prefer to "headcanon" my protagonists as much as possible. Otherwise I would be playing Bioware's character rather than my own. This is one of the reasons I am not overly thrilled to play established characters with canon backgrounds - like Luke Skywalker or Geralt of Rivia.

Ah somehow his name is always into the BSN......he is cited more often of the Inquisitor, some sort of unaware desire i wonder?