83 réponses à ce sujet

[Nintendali]

Bollocks! I need someone to carry my level ounes.

[ellpadre]

I only run frost dragon using the ele. He has barrier and I keep everyone protected and the use of meteor and immolate have massive damage with ice attack. Its very viable and its relatively easy to play. Especially since he has death siphon and the barrier passive that kicks in when you are about to die. Its a strong strong class.

[Striken7]

I also prefer to hunt Perilous dragons on my Ele. For teammates I think I would pick Virtuoso, Duelist, Archer.

[ellpadre]

I run the ele for both teammates and me. I always keep everyone barriered, especially that he has the passive where you can use on skill after another, I can keep everyone protected. 

[Drasca]

Drasca has stats doubled as mine. I've seen his videos, seen damage numbers. It's maybe 30% more. 30%, not 300%.

 

SpaceVegan isn't lying, he just isn't hand-holding walking-through exactly what he does, and when he gets his numbers.

 

Spacevegan mentioned MO Potion + Lyrium. Lyrium potion is something like +20 or +40 magic. MO is +58 base damage however (may be 54, it somewhere between 50-60). Think about that against a staff that is  whose upper end is 80 base damage to begin with (Dragon staff). That is over 72% damage on everything from the base damage increase alone (or 1.72 of base), not taking into account barrier damage bonus, or other bonuses Virtuoso has. You've calculated the additional AP vs you have has already: 87% (1.87 of base).

 

1.72 x 1.87 (your base damage)= 3.23 x (your base), which is about that 300% you've estimated. That estimate does not include lyrium potion's +magic benefit, nor the barrier guard damage bonus,. Basically, you need to start using MO potions, and the damage will seem normalized.

 

Izzy's damage output is about 1.38 x base with MO on when comparing vs Dragon Daggers (154). I'd be hitting for about 2.5k with on bolt with MO on, and I could increase it further with another superb critical damage ring (or more willpower).

 

Space's numbers are in-line with using MO potion. However, he fails to mention what his damage without MO potion (and vs an enemy that is not fire resistent). Those are easily calculable though.

 

I usually do the same, when I care to (I am too lazy, and am not running mages, particularly virtuoso recently). I have other tricks up my sleeve too.

 

Edit: He is also using two different set of attack numbers, which people may be confusing with each other. There's at least four sets in my mind though, two kits x potion boosted vs non boosted

[Geth Supremacy]

SpaceVegan isn't lying, he just isn't hand-holding walking-through exactly what he does, and when he gets his numbers.

 

Spacevegan mentioned MO Potion + Lyrium. Lyrium potion is something like +20 or +40 magic. MO is +58 base damage however (may be 54, it somewhere between 50-60). Think about that against a staff that is  whose upper end is 80 base damage to begin with (Dragon staff). That is over 72% damage on everything from the base damage increase alone (or 1.72 of base), not taking into account barrier damage bonus, or other bonuses Virtuoso has. You've calculated the additional AP vs you have has already: 87% (1.87 of base).

 

1.72 x 1.87 (your base damage)= 3.23 x (your base), which is about that 300% you've estimated. That estimate does not include lyrium potion's +magic benefit, nor the barrier guard damage bonus,. Basically, you need to start using MO potions, and the damage will seem normalized.

 

Izzy's damage output is about 1.38 x base with MO on when comparing vs Dragon Daggers (154). I'd be hitting for about 2.5k with on bolt with MO on, and I could increase it further with another superb critical damage ring (or more willpower).

 

Space's numbers are in-line with using MO potion. However, he fails to mention what his damage without MO potion (and vs an enemy that is not fire resistent). Those are easily calculable though.

 

I usually do the same, when I care to (I am too lazy, and am not running mages, particularly virtuoso recently). I have other tricks up my sleeve too.

 

Edit: He is also using two different set of attack numbers, which people may be confusing with each other. There's at least four sets in my mind though, two kits x potion boosted vs non boosted

 

No offense, but this is off.  Maybe its just how my Hunter is set up or his equipment, but I just go in there with my Griffon bow and put in the work.  I don't do all of the damage, but most of it.  If I'm feeling generous to my team I might drink a potion or 2.

 

You have good taste in warriours and also equipment, but my Hunter gets it done.  All the eles can go take a seat or better yet take notes.

[Drasca]

No offense, but this is off.  Maybe its just how my Hunter is set up or his equipment, but I just go in there with my Griffon bow and put in the work.  I don't do all of the damage, but most of it.  If I'm feeling generous to my team I might drink a potion or 2.

 

None taken, because you're comparing a completely different kit, thus you'll get completely different results. Apples and Oranges again. Also, Hunter does terrible damage vs an Archer that can spam Leaping shot repeatedly alongside Mark of Death doubling the entire party's damage in its duration, either taking the Perilous dragon down to half on the first landing, or killing it outright.

[Geth Supremacy]

None taken, because you're comparing a completely different kit, thus you'll get completely different results. Apples and Oranges again. Also, Hunter does terrible damage vs an Archer that can spam Leaping shot repeatedly alongside Mark of Death doubling the entire party's damage in its duration, either taking the Perilous dragon down to half on the first landing, or killing it outright.

 

I do have to admit I love Mark of Death.  I can't even deny that. Amazing ability.  That's overkill right there, but that's what its about.  Don't tell Bioware though.

[yarpenthemad21]

SpaceVegan isn't lying, he just isn't hand-holding walking-through exactly what he does, and when he gets his numbers.
 
Spacevegan mentioned MO Potion + Lyrium. Lyrium potion is something like +20 or +40 magic. MO is +58 base damage however (may be 54, it somewhere between 50-60). Think about that against a staff that is  whose upper end is 80 base damage to begin with (Dragon staff). That is over 72% damage on everything from the base damage increase alone (or 1.72 of base), not taking into account barrier damage bonus, or other bonuses Virtuoso has. You've calculated the additional AP vs you have has already: 87% (1.87 of base).
 
1.72 x 1.87 (your base damage)= 3.23 x (your base), which is about that 300% you've estimated. That estimate does not include lyrium potion's +magic benefit, nor the barrier guard damage bonus,. Basically, you need to start using MO potions, and the damage will seem normalized.
 
Izzy's damage output is about 1.38 x base with MO on when comparing vs Dragon Daggers (154). I'd be hitting for about 2.5k with on bolt with MO on, and I could increase it further with another superb critical damage ring (or more willpower).
 
Space's numbers are in-line with using MO potion. However, he fails to mention what his damage without MO potion (and vs an enemy that is not fire resistent). Those are easily calculable though.
 
I usually do the same, when I care to (I am too lazy, and am not running mages, particularly virtuoso recently). I have other tricks up my sleeve too.
 
Edit: He is also using two different set of attack numbers, which people may be confusing with each other. There's at least four sets in my mind though, two kits x potion boosted vs non boosted

With potions, with some guard bonus with barrier bonus with...other bullshit.
It's bullshit. Potion last for like 20 seconds. It's not his dps, not even close to it. Potions are made to boost your damage for the godsake. Not to imply that my dps = dps when I have all possible consumables + maybe some To the Death + maybe shocked + maybe weakened with passives + damage bonus from templar on demons + etc.
And all of this in the thread how to make viable party for the dragon hunt. Rule number one, take someone who want's to show off with some idealistic and not that much realistic numbers. Great advice. Bravo...

Damage on average is damage on average. You take target on your own and hit it. Either add buffs and debuffs you can easily add yourself. That's all. Numbers with potion lasting 20 seconds. Omg what a idiotic idea.

[akots1]

not enough, still bullshit.
I have 50 willpower, 175% willpower is around +attack 87%, If you do the math is not even 50% flat damage increase. I now my damage. This bullshit is 3 TIMES higher and I have best weapons in slot. You need more like 600 willpower for it.
.

No and no. As Drasca said, just use mighty offense potion on the bard and polish it up with some lyrium. Play original songs, changing it every time you cast and keep auto-attacking. I have +14 willpower (24 total) and can hit frost dragon reliably for about 1000 with auto attack (Pyre of forgotten staff), well, more like 800+, and around 1200+ with hot licks. Not sure what the critical is as my cunning is low as well and I don't equip critical rings on the bard. You can also play home anthem in between hot licks. It does not matter what song as long as it is different from what you just played. If you happen to get under the belly, power chord works very well. I do get tired though and feel completely wasted after 3 games. V3gan's every hit is critical, so 3k for auto and 5k for hot licks is very reasonable with 250 willpower.

[akots1]

With potions, with some guard bonus with barrier bonus with...other bullshit..

It sounds like the game is a bit too ... complex for your refined taste. Which is a perfect fit for Yarpen, so I see no problem here. Just chop them up with an axe and sh!t on the pieces as it is the only way to go.

 

 

 

“And you’re just a nuisance, too, little madam,” he snorted angrily. “All we need are ladies and girls, damn it. I can’t even take a ****** from the box – I have to stop the cart and go into the bushes!”

Ciri put her hands on her hips, shook her ashen fringe and turned up her nose.

“Is that so?” she shrilled, enraged. “Drink less beer, Zigrin, and then you won’t have to!”

“My beer’s none of your shitin’ business, you chit!”

“Don’t yell, Triss has just fallen asleep!”

“It’s my wagon! I’ll yell if I want to!”

“Stumpy!”

“What? You impertinent brat!”

“Stump!”

“I’ll show you stump…”

[TheThirdRace]

With potions, with some guard bonus with barrier bonus with...other bullshit.
It's bullshit. Potion last for like 20 seconds. It's not his dps, not even close to it. Potions are made to boost your damage for the godsake. Not to imply that my dps = dps when I have all possible consumables + maybe some To the Death + maybe shocked + maybe weakened with passives + damage bonus from templar on demons + etc.
And all of this in the thread how to make viable party for the dragon hunt. Rule number one, take someone who want's to show off with some idealistic and not that much realistic numbers. Great advice. Bravo...

Damage on average is damage on average. You take target on your own and hit it. Either add buffs and debuffs you can easily add yourself. That's all. Numbers with potion lasting 20 seconds. Omg what a idiotic idea.

If you'd have played with SpaceV3gan, you'd know it's not his style to boast. He answered honestly, you're the one thinking he's doing something wrong.

Here's the recipe:

• Get Staff of the Dragon (81 base fire damage)
• Get around 50 Willpower from promotions
• Wait until the FROST Dragon lands (Frost is important as it's weak to fire)
• Hit it with Hot Lick until he flies off
• When he perches himself on the building, lock your target on his head
• Drink a Mighty Offense potion
• Drink a Lyrium potion
• Auto-attack and Hot Lick as much as you can

This will easily net you 2.5k per hit, 5k per critical hit. Have 2 or 3 teammates targeting the Dragon while he's perched and you'll kill him as soon as it touches ground on the following landing. You won't need to have an amazing DPS, just that small 20 seconds is more than enough...
 
I don't care how you figure this is impossible, it's what happens in game. End of story.

[Jebbadiah Jenkins]

I've hit the frost dragon for 4,000 crits on auto attacks with the dragon staff.

 

I kind of hate that this is getting so much "media" attention because it will probably be hot-fixed pretty quickly now.

 

My promotes stats are 34, 37, 35. If I can hit for 4k with those stats, I see what he mentioned easily achieved.

[Viking]

Full barrier Zither. All the rest doesnt matter.

[Texasmotiv]

Zither in FC for me usually spells host migrations and doubling the length of the match through his fps slowdown time magic.

[capn233]

No and no. As Drasca said, just use mighty offense potion on the bard and polish it up with some lyrium. Play original songs, changing it every time you cast and keep auto-attacking. I have +14 willpower (24 total) and can hit frost dragon reliably for about 1000 with auto attack (Pyre of forgotten staff), well, more like 800+, and around 1200+ with hot licks. Not sure what the critical is as my cunning is low as well and I don't equip critical rings on the bard. You can also play home anthem in between hot licks. It does not matter what song as long as it is different from what you just played. If you happen to get under the belly, power chord works very well. I do get tired though and feel completely wasted after 3 games. V3gan's every hit is critical, so 3k for auto and 5k for hot licks is very reasonable with 250 willpower.

 

So basically alternating between just two songs works for that damage bonus?

 

I just played a string of games with Zither! against the Frost Dragon just to see if I had remembered the right range for Hot Licks that I had gotten before.  Today I had 36 and then 27 Willpower and 25 cunning, and I was able to hit the dragon for 1265 once with Hot Licks.  That was with Fury of the Veil.

 

I will need to try the method of drinking lyrium and mighty offense when it lands on a building.

[Jebbadiah Jenkins]

Killing the dragon in 15sec?  under a minute? honestly i killed him with alot of pugs and nothing was even close to those times... usually 4 lands , rarely 3 lands.
Maybe with a premade overgeared group... but i yet to encounter such things.
Sadly the chances for success without a shielding bard were very low for me with Pugs. When going with a keeper instead of a bard you need really good team work...
I did some runs without a bard with 2 shielders, Ele+keeper etc... Without shielders at all dont recall ever making it.
Honestly when giving advices you need to think how well it will work for less geared Pug group then you... I dont think i ever managed to kill the dragon with the bard going dps because people just start dieing and then he dies if not before.
I can allready see someone reading this thread and trying to do the things suggested in it and causing a wipe for a Pug group.

For the record I've been in a couple of groups where the dragon died on the first landing. Yes they were pre-made, but 15 seconds seems about right.

 

Also the virtuoso in the group doesn't have to go dps to get these crazy damage numbers, he's just gotta auto attack while keeping barrier up. I do it on every run. If the dragon is about to go down, or the dragon gets hurt, i do go full dps though.

 

Also you mentioned the success rate is really low for you in pugs without a shielding bard. I can tell you why this is, but no one will listen to me and people will keep doing what they do anyways. It's those stupid !@#%@#@^& catapults. If people would stick together when the dragon goes in the air, or move together, then people would hardly ever wipe. Every pug I get into, it never fails, the dragon takes off, and the dps will head off in three different directions. Someone dies almost every single time, winding up those ridiculous catapults. They don't even do enough damage to warrant the confusion they cause.

 

Better idea is move to the perch the dragon is on, have melee or two take care of the dragonlings, and have a ranged or two fire up at the dragon on the perch.

[Drasca]

Full barrier Zither. All the rest doesnt matter.

 

Casting barrier is a waste with my stats. I don't cast barrier and get kill streaks with just power chord and fast beat. Hot licks vs frost dragon.

 

Edit: I very rarely auto attack either. I generally hit for 1.0- 1.5k electric aoe and crit for 3k., if I'm not blocked or hitting an electric resistent foe.

[Viking]

Casting barrier is a waste with my stats. I don't cast barrier and get kill streaks with just power chord and fast beat.

 

I very rarely auto attack either.

 

Read the OP post.

 

"Especially for a team with limited promotes".

 

Limited promotes = Zither full barrier is the best way. Maybe will be slower, but reduce a lot the wipe possibility.

 

 

We are not talking about people like you, here.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Full barrier Zither. All the rest doesnt matter.

 

Yeah, because that's not a complete waste of an otherwise awesome class.

[Viking]

Yeah, because that's not a complete waste of an otherwise awesome class.

 

Well, not everyone is able to survive Perillious without barrier. So yeah, for "low promoted chars" that's the best way.

Even with few promotions, with a full barrier bard, you can easily clean FC in Perillious.

[Drasca]

Read the OP post.

"Especially for a team with limited promotes". but decent gear

 

Yes, you do need to read the OP. It is a complete waste for Zither to cast anything but hot licks during the fight on the tower against a Frost dragon. Obviously Lyruim and Mighty Offense are ridiculously OP on Zither vs the Frost dragon with Hot licks, so caring barrier is a waste of time.

 

There are other tactics for zones 1 - 4 that're already covered elsewhere.

[Viking]

Yes, you do need to read the OP. It is a complete waste for Zither to cast anything but hot licks during the fight on the tower against a Frost dragon. Obviously Lyruim and Mighty Offense are ridiculously OP on Zither vs the Frost dragon with Hot licks, so caring barrier is a waste of time.

 

There are other tactics for zones 1 - 4 that're already covered elsewhere.

 

Gear means nothing when you get bishotted, man.

 

When I play the Avaar, without full barrier, I'm completely useless, even if I got health regen and such, I'm dead before I can use it. While with a babysitter, I even managed to got a 30-40 killstreaks. As you can see, the difference with Zither full barrier and without him, is kinda obvious - with low promoted chars.

 

So yes, for low promoted parties, full Barrier Zither is the best choice to avoid wipe. We are not talking here about how to "be faster".

[akots1]

So basically alternating between just two songs works for that damage bonus?

I am not sure, I usually alternate between three songs: barrier, hot licks, and power chord or speed. Otherwise, it gets too complicated. But some people like Wavebend can play 5 or 6 which is completely out of my reach.

[capn233]

I am not sure, I usually alternate between three songs: barrier, hot licks, and power chord or speed. Otherwise, it gets too complicated. But some people like Wavebend can play 5 or 6 which is completely out of my reach.

 

Most of the time I would prefer to go between something like Fast Beat, Battle of the Bands, Hometown Anthem and Power Chord or Hot Licks but against the dragon it seems like I can't regen mana all that well so it is hard to get all of them while the dragon is on the ground.

 

edit:

 

Also, is the mana regen from Combat Clarity whonky off host?  I had a couple times where it seemed like I wasn't getting extra mana regen despite the fact that there were a bunch of dragonlings near by.