65 réponses à ce sujet

[Ambivalent]

 

I tend to take people at face value on the Internet, even if they're saying something ridiculous.

 

Actually, make that especially if they're saying something ridiculous.

 

I seriously wonder what was ridiculus about my OP.

 

Healing system changed? Yes.

Controls are bad for this game but worked with games that have more shooter or FPS style? Yes.

So many fetch quests? Yes.

Auto attribute distribution? Yes.

Can speak to companions in camp or outside in wilderness? No.

 

Facts aren't really ridiculus.  

 

But some parts of my OP are subjective. Some agreed, some disagreed and i'm fine with it. In case you meant them it is all fine and ignore this part.

 

To posters above, do you really think that OP was serious about "change for change's sake"? For me it sounded like an expression of exasperation with the game, rather than a serious opinion that the devs did all this just to be different.

 

Yeah, i got disappointed with some changes and i didn't think they made sense much. Couldn't find a better subject than this. 

 

But yes, i'm not conservative, i'm more than happy with open world system at least as idea for example, game looks really awesome, animations are well done, character creation while needs some depth it is really nice. But Bioware heard these gazillion of times from fans, players and press.

 

I'm pretty sure they always want to make their new "masterpiece" and same idea went with DA:I. But some changes didn't make any sense.

 

For example: While WASD only movement worked for so many games like Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect etc because it was locked on our character/crosshair except menus and dialogue choices. 

 

Worked well enough, New Vegas and Mass Effect series are one of my favourites.(Just finished ME 1 again btw )

 

Here we have a totally out of place cursor. It has no real usage while it had on previous installments of this series. Felt like a PC controller not like right analog stick of dual shock which is generally there for camera rotation. 

 

Right click on object to move to its place and do default action. Talk to NPC, get loot, open door whatever. It was in since 90's and Bioware also used it in DA series and it worked pretty well.

 

This was a change with no reason at all and only serves a purpose to make game uncomfortable on PC intended or not.

 

I'll surely return to DA:I and give it another chance. Just to record i'm not and i wasn't flaming anyone or the game itself but it just doesn't feel right.

 

PS: According to Origin i've played 12 hours, so i can't talk about story, ending or special classes for example yet i can say that controls are pretty messed up. Probably gonna use a joypad but again if i knew that PC would be sub par at controls department i'd get this on PS 4, ah well... 

 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Bioware :- Reinventing the wheel and plagiarizing features from other games because feels and because they are greedy to the point of sacrificing core game elements for CoD crowds or MMO crowds. 

[Shechinah]

Bioware :- Reinventing the wheel and plagiarizing features from other games because feels and because they are greedy to the point of sacrificing core game elements for CoD crowds or MMO crowds. 

Would you mind listing what you consider plagiarizing features?
 

[JoeTheQuarian]

There are camps everywhere for you to heal up and grab some potions. There really is no need for healing. Also Bioware has said that they are fine with mods but with the new engine they didn't want to mess it up. Plus they didn't know much about it since they borrowed it for Dice.

[Sylvius the Mad]

For example: While WASD only movement worked for so many games like Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect etc because it was locked on our character/crosshair except menus and dialogue choices.

Worked well enough, New Vegas and Mass Effect series are one of my favourites.(Just finished ME 1 again btw )

Here we have a totally out of place cursor. It has no real usage while it had on previous installments of this series. Felt like a PC controller not like right analog stick of dual shock which is generally there for camera rotation.

I think the mouse cursor is extremely valuable. It lets us initiate combat at extreme range, something that wouldn't otherwise be possible (and something that can't be done in DAI when using a controller).

DA2 didn't need such a thing because we couldn't initiate combat.

[jds1bio]

I think the mouse cursor is extremely valuable. It lets us initiate combat at extreme range, something that wouldn't otherwise be possible (and something that can't be done in DAI when using a controller).

DA2 didn't need such a thing because we couldn't initiate combat.

I initiate combat at extreme ranges all the time, mostly if I accidentally hit one of the combat buttons like square, for instance.  I know it works because I can't fast travel immediately after doing so.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I initiate combat at extreme ranges all the time, mostly if I accidentally hit one of the combat buttons like square, for instance. I know it works because I can't fast travel immediately after doing so.

Do you hit anything?

[Captain Wiseass]

 

 

 

I seriously wonder what was ridiculus about my OP

The "change for change's sake" bit. Which I thought was obvious, given the post I was replying to.

[Ambivalent]

 

DA2 didn't need such a thing because we couldn't initiate combat.

 

Didn't get this part, can you elaborate if you don't mind?

 

Because thinking simple i can remember in both games i could initiate combat and even better since they had better tactics. (Esp DA:O with its superior tactics and spell combinations)

 

There are camps everywhere for you to heal up and grab some potions. There really is no need for healing. Also Bioware has said that they are fine with mods but with the new engine they didn't want to mess it up. Plus they didn't know much about it since they borrowed it for Dice.

 

Engine part is okay, actually it is awesome in both visuals and physics.

 

But potion restrictions limit me. Either i let my companions and my character carry "scars" from last battle or i have to stop in camp or we all die in time anyways That goes with removal of both heal spell and auto healing after battle aswell.

 

Also carrying a few(8-12-call it 20) potions while walking with an arsenal that could mobilize an entire army makes no sense. If that was limited to let's say only one spare armor suit(They're heavy you know?) for repairations of actual armors etc. then i'd say "Bioware trying to change things in realistic way. I may like it or not but that's okay"

 

The "change for change's sake" bit. Which I thought was obvious, given the post I was replying to.

 

Yeah i also thought and still think they're better than this but i couldn't find a better word for "changing things for no reason at all". 

 

Restricting potions, right click movement/usage, lack of tactics, lack of healing spell, auto attribute distribution doesn't make much sense, not a step forward. Even DA 2 was better in these.

 

They could make sense as a "hardcore" mode where our inventory is limited to a few armor and weapon bits that can used in armor and weapon repairs(Though would be better to see blacksmith), where if a companion dies he/she dies, where swords, daggers actually one hit killers, where stuff has weight and changes your movement speed etc.

 

If we agree to disagree that's okay too. And sorry English isn't my native language so i couldn't come up with a better term. 

 

Bioware is my favourite developer so that's why these stuff disturbs me, small or not, questionable or liked. Still again i apologize for subject of post if that's problem.

 

PS: An option would be best of both worlds. Hopefully next they'll let old farts like me use right mouse button, more tactics, more potions in short "old style", let action mans and girls have their WASD, less tactics, auto attributes and whatever they wish. This is not MMO anyway, one player can't break the fun of others literally.

 

[pdusen]

Yeah i also thought and still think they're better than this but i couldn't find a better word for "changing things for no reason at all". 

 

That statement isn't any less ridiculous.

 

You can be sure that every change made has a reason behind it, even if you disagree with that reason.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

I guess a more accurate topic title would have been; "Why did they changes things in ways I don't like when I did like things the way they were?"

 

Not that I share the sentiment.  Well... Ok, I do.  At least in certain respects. 

The kb+m UI, to be specific, which is crippled compared to DAO/DA2! 

 

But with the addition of the "mouse look" option, that's become less of an issue.  I still miss "click-to-move", including "move to something with which I can then interact without having to click again" (e.g. doors, loot, etc.)  But it's still a vast improvement! 

[Father_Jerusalem]

Because this is a new game, and if it was exactly the same as Origins, you might as well be replaying Origins?

[Ambivalent]

Because this is a new game, and if it was exactly the same as Origins, you might as well be replaying Origins?

 

New installment on same series. I was not expecting Origins to be like Mass Effect for example.

 

It was new, a fresh start but this one is next step on the road so to speak. It was not so extreme to await same or similar gameplay in same series. 

 

 

That statement isn't any less ridiculous.

 

You can be sure that every change made has a reason behind it, even if you disagree with that reason.

 

Fair enough. 

 

Still i'm not convinced about reasons for most of them. (I have read these official posts on at least potion/healing stuff : http://forum.bioware...om-the-outside/ , http://forum.bioware.com/topic/514541-no-healing-spells-whatsoever/page-22#entry17416109 )

 

Summary : "We didn't like the way you were playing so we changed it. Not even single player freedom for ya! Oh and on easy and normal you'll be fine, mostly. Because we invented a few abilities. If you use them as we intended you're good, if not then you're screwed. Grind a few levels and return to pwn them. Too long short it will be fine if you use these abilities, restock often and walk around in your level area."

 

To me that's revinventing the wheel but in square shape. 

 

"My son can play it", good for him. 

 

"I don't need potions much", very nice for you. 

 

"You wanted harder game, here it is!" No i wanted a cinematic, immersive game. I have Dark Souls and difficulty mods for that thank you. If i needed even more "hard" setting i can always go into battle in clothes in previous games or delete my character when i died. (There was a one hit kill lightsaber mod for KOTOR 2 i think and yeah i used it. I used random encounters and harder difficulty mods for DA:O. I literally played naked at Dragons Dogma for the challange. So people has more freedom than developers think)

 

And none of these posts really explain anything about why changes were made and needed.

 

"Engine limitations", "Lack of polishing time", "We wanted to make game for consoles in mind", "Joypad is highly recommended", "It is all EA's fault!", "Our lead developer was really busy, sorry for that :(" etc all these can explain some of the problematic situations but these do not.

 

That is simply forcing their preferences over their player base. In a single player game limitations are bad, in MMOs or multiplayer games that's okay since they need to keep balance. 

 

No offense but kinda oppressive i'd say.

 

 

I guess a more accurate topic title would have been; "Why did they changes things in ways I don't like when I did like things the way they were?"

 

Hmm might be more accurate but too long. Also lacks emphasis of "Things were fine at first place" not about likes and preferences.

 

If these series were a MMO game i'd say "Why try to fix something not broken?"

[Father_Jerusalem]

 

New installment on same series. I was not expecting Origins to be like Mass Effect for example.

 

It was new, a fresh start but this one is next step on the road so to speak. It was not so extreme to await same or similar gameplay in same series. 

 

 

They changed the gameplay from Origins to DA2, and now from DA2 to Inquisition.

 

It seems to me as though they're going to find what works and what doesn't and tweak it with every new installment. Just like Mass Effect did. 

Frankly, just like almost every series does. 

 

If you don't like change, that's your prerogative, but don't assume there's no reasoning behind the decisions they make. For instance, if you only looked, you'd find many statements that Bioware has made about the healing change, namely that the only way to adequately overcome the billion health potions and healing spells in Origins and DA2 was to make enemies that could either instagib or just do a metric fuckton of damage on each and every hit.

 

This was not the design they wanted, and so they changed it.

 

Ta da.

 

 

 

If these series were a MMO game i'd say "Why try to fix something not broken?"

 

Because healing WAS broken. And so they tried to fix it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Didn't get this part, can you elaborate if you don't mind?

Because thinking simple i can remember in both games i could initiate combat and even better since they had better tactics. (Esp DA:O with its superior tactics and spell combinations).

In DA2, you couldn't activate combat abilities unless you were already in combat, and there was no way for you to activate combat mode yourself.

DAO had no such restriction; you could use combat abilities even without a target. But DA2 made you wait until the game decided you were in combat.

Also, I love that BioWare has returned to a design without auto-regen health. Their first 4 RPGs (BG, BG2, NWN, KotOR) all didn't have health regen either, and I prefer that design. I complained (loudly) when it was announced that DAO would have regenerating health. Prior to that, only ME had had regen, and I was shocked and dismayed to see that feature find its way into DAO.

[Ambivalent]

 

Because healing WAS broken. And so they tried to fix it.

 

Now hold on i don't remember anyone complained about healing in previous games until Bioware decided to change it. Don't act like you or anyone out there felt it was wrong in previous games.

 

You may welcome the changes which is nice but calling it "broken" is wrong. It was working as intended until Bioware made a smartass decision to change it for better or worse.

 

You should either support the change or be against it, all fine but it was never broken. 

 

Feel free to support changes but please don't act like it was wrong and everybody knew that and agreed on a change.

 

The rest i can't comment. Both has its own merits. Some people like big numbers while other prefers one hit instant kills. I'm in for the story mostly but half assed limitations makes me sad panda. (Gonna elaborate half assed part in bottom so you can understand what i mean)

 

Also, I love that BioWare has returned to a design without auto-regen health. Their first 4 RPGs (BG, BG2, NWN, KotOR) all didn't have health regen either, and I prefer that design. I complained (loudly) when it was announced that DAO would have regenerating health. Prior to that, only ME had had regen, and I was shocked and dismayed to see that feature find its way into DAO.

 

True but you had at least healing spell and no potions cap. IIRC KOTOR had medkits for this. So it worked.

 

Here i'm forced to use their way of playing(Barrier etc) and go get a limited amount of supplies over over again. 

 

Because "it was meant to play this way" according to them which is an insult to whole RPGs out there(including their masterpieces aswell which is ironic) and limits my options. Also breaks immersion to walk with an inventory contains bazillion of armors but can't have a few potions more. 

 

I'm not against limitations of items too but the problem is that should make sense. Not only for some "pr0 gaming".

 

There was a mod for New Vegas i think. It made sure that you could carry a spare armor/clothing, just a few guns, healing stims weren't instant but heal over time, addictions were more common, you couldn't heal your injuries before seing the doc etc.

 

Now that made sense because it was about realism and wasn't forced upon people by developers themselves. Totally optional yet sensible unlike "Walk with guns that can mobilize an entire army but you can't carry this small item because we made sure you can't"

 

PS: If there was a toggle about mouse controls, potion limit etc. i wouldn't mind a bit. I'm all for options, prefers. I might even want to play in their way after a while. But for now i simply can't accept it since it was forced upon me and was working well enough in previous games. Anyway i'm more than happy with my Fem Shephard right now.

[FieryDove]

There are camps everywhere for you to heal up and grab some potions. There really is no need for healing.

 

This would be fine if they gave companions no fall damage/feather falling buff.

 

tiny spoilers!

---

---

--

Example: Cleared a map and left. Went back to the first camp which was close to my goal. Tagging a couple of things one companion likes and no combat to worry about. Almost get to the first one and one companion must have got stuck somewhere, they teleported to me? Then bounced all within a split second and used two potions to heal. I don't get the upgrade till really late so they used their allotment of potions. 2 potions per party member, 3 with upgrade. Even though it doesn't work that way they will use them all down to the reserve set.

 

Blasted annoying it is. Have to go back to camp just to refill when I hadn't even been in combat yet! The Hinterlands/Storm Coast is horrible for this along with most areas even small/tiny mounds can cause companions to use potions/lose all the guard they had built etc. If they could iron that out it would be nice but won't happen.

I just avoid the headache with an unlimited potion mod.

[Sylvius the Mad]

True but you had at least healing spell and no potions cap. IIRC KOTOR had medkits for this. So it worked.

KotOR was the one that started to go wrong, I would argue.

BG and NWN both had weight limits on inventory. NWN's was further limited by volume, and BG had only a small number of inventory slots. Also, neither game offered a shared inventory, so if you wanted to drink a potion, you had to be the one carrying it. And healing spells were limited both by resting (you could only cast so many between stops), and by how many non-healing spells you were willing to sacrifice in order to have them.

I like having limits on healing. BioWare's games used to have them.

[Zjarcal]

 

Now hold on i don't remember anyone complained about healing in previous games until Bioware decided to change it. Don't act like you or anyone out there felt it was wrong in previous games.

 

 

I complained big time about healing in DAO, potion spam was idiotic and even the spells had such short cooldowns it was a triviality. Healing in DAO was most definitely broken as hell, ugh.

 

DA2 was way better and probably the best balance amongst the three games with both potions and spells having long cooldowns.

 

DAI might be a bit too "hardcore" (not in terms of difficulty, but management), though I can live with it just fine.

 

My ideal system would probably be long cooldowns on spells, potions being very expensive but unlimited to carry, and no health regen.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

and no health regen.

 

Except Krogans. Krogans gotta have health regen.

[Zjarcal]

Except Krogans. Krogans gotta have health regen.

 

Health regen with each melee attack.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Health regen with each melee attack.

 

THEY SHOULD HAVE IT AT ALL TIMES

 

 

 

 

thankgawdforkrolord

[Father_Jerusalem]

 

 

 

Now hold on i don't remember anyone complained about healing in previous games until Bioware decided to change it. Don't act like you or anyone out there felt it was wrong in previous games.

 

You may welcome the changes which is nice but calling it "broken" is wrong. It was working as intended until Bioware made a smartass decision to change it for better or worse.

 

You should either support the change or be against it, all fine but it was never broken. 

 

Feel free to support changes but please don't act like it was wrong and everybody knew that and agreed on a change.

 

The rest i can't comment. Both has its own merits. Some people like big numbers while other prefers one hit instant kills. I'm in for the story mostly but half assed limitations makes me sad panda. (Gonna elaborate half assed part in bottom so you can understand what i mean)

 

 

 

You remember incorrectly.

 

Healing was broken. Especially in DAO when the cooldown on your heal spells was ridiculously short and you can potion spam until your fingers bleed. 

 

Like Zjarcal said, it was better in DA2, but the healing spells (and especially the healing aura) often trivialized encounters there too. As well, they still required a "mobs have to be able to instagib to be any danger" mentality. 

 

DAI wanted to move away from that mentality and into an "attrition" type mentality. YMMV on whether that's an improvement or not (it is), but to many people - the Bioware devs included - healing was broken in the first two games, and thus they changed it. 

 

Ta da.

[VelvetV]

Probably gonna use a joypad but again if i knew that PC would be sub par at controls department i'd get this on PS 4, ah well... 

 

Use a joypad for sure, if you have it, especially if you play in tactical cam:

 

http://forum.bioware...o-advance-time/

http://www.reddit.co...the_pc_version/

[RedLens37]

Have you actually played this game!? 12 potions plus regeneration and/or other defensive tonics is PLENTY!! Even on nightmare. Bajeezus, it's still just as overpowered in the end as crafting a million healing potions plus healing spells was, except it feels less gimmicky now. You actually need to put some thought into building a party that can stay alive without constant healing.