434 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

To ask don't cost anything the game simply does not provide the option.

In fact he even said that if you will use the well against Cory he will give you permission to drink from it ....

so much for someone which does not care...

 

When he is up to leave the temple he answer many questions about the well of sorrow without problems because he respect  the Inquisitor at that point,answer to a question does not mean that he will help you.

 

As i said it does not matter that the Inquisitor does not know that he is Fen'harel,he demonstrated to possess knowledge about many things and  actually there is a dialogue in which  Cassandra ask to him what is the red Lyrium dragon and he reveal that is bound with Corypheus.

In short everyone in the party know that Solas has more knowledge than anyone else even if they don't know why again ask don't cost anything.

 

 

1.Eee, once again Inquistor can specifically tell Abelas that he needs a well because it may provide knowledge on how to defeat Corypheus, Abelas bluntly states he doesn't care about your conflict,.If he wanted to tell you he would, once again assuming that he even knew.

 

2.How the hell it doesn't matter that is just ridiculous. How the hell Inqusitior would know that Solas have knowledge about how to defeat Corypheus, there is no reason for Inquistor to belive that Solas has such vital information considering he didn't reveal it despite being vital, just because Solas has a knowledge doesn't equatate to having knowledge to how kill Corypheus.Plain and simple, Inquistor couldn't know that Solas has such knowledge unless he knew who Solas is or Solas told him , Solas didn't do any of those.

[Cyberpunk]

No, it is a fair enough comparison. The dread wolve according to (wrong) Dalish legends was the one that basically locked away the (according to legend) benevolent elven gods, that protected their people and cared for them as well as the other less benevolent gods, in order to be the only god left.

In stories he constantly screws over everyone that is trying to make a deal with him. For example the whole "Felassan"-story, where he promises to kill a monster threatening a clan and does so, after it killed everyone in the clan. The Story Merrill tells to Hawkes Mabari has her literally saying that the Dread wolf tried to murder Keeper in the Fade for the sole reason that said Keeper was wise and kind and that Fen'Harel hates these traits more than anything else.

Even what amounts to the Dalish Version of "Go to Hell" is basically "May the dread wolf take you!"

He's pretty much the ultimate bad-guy in Dalish mythology.

 

Again Bioware can go either way. Merrill CAN be convinced that Solas is not Dalish-Satan as you put it. Solas has certainly convinced other Dalish elves. 

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Morrigan is being way stupider with the Well. There's no reason to think the Well can help. Corypheus thinks it can, but Corypheus is obviously a complete lunatic. That it may be a good idea to destroy the Well to keep it from Corypheus doesn't mean it's a good idea to drink from it.

I don't know what other ominous warnings they could possibly have tossed in about the Well of Sorrows having some big catch to it and yet Morrigan jumps right in anyway. Seemingly when she didn't even know what the thing was about 30 minutes before you got to the Temple. At that point, I think there is a fine line between wanting to have this philosophical, high minded desire to preserve any and all ancient knowledge and maybe exercising the slightest bit of discretion when you possibly have a kid and lover/husband to think about and you presumably have very little idea what you're jumping into.So aye i agree that's even worse than Merril/Audacity plot line...

[sniper_arrow]

I don't know what other ominous warnings they could possibly have tossed in about the Well of Sorrows having some big catch to it and yet Morrigan jumps right in anyway. Seemingly when she didn't even know what the thing was about 30 minutes before you got to the Temple. At that point, I think there is a fine line between wanting to have this philosophical, high minded desire to preserve any and all ancient knowledge and maybe exercising the slightest bit of discretion when you possibly have a kid and lover/husband to think about and you presumably have very little idea what you're jumping into.So aye i agree that's even worse than Merril/Audacity plot line...

 

True, but in her case, ego trumps over brain and heart.

[LobselVith8]

Merrill spends 6 years trying to restore a mirror (I know it's called something else but I'm too lazy to look up spelling it) and UTTERLY fails. Completely.

 

Actually, Merrill successfully cleansed a tainted shard she took from the original Eluvian in Ferelden, then studied lore on the Eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard, creating an entirely new Eluvian from scratch. Morrigan used an existing Eluvian from the time of Arlathan. It's apples and oranges.

 

Morrigan on the other hand spends only about a year or 2 to completely fix one to the point of being fully functional and able to bring her to the crossroads. Was there a difference in how broken they each were and so Morrigan had it easier, or is she just so dang good that she did in less than 2 years what Merrill couldn't in 6 and made her look like a complete idiot?

 

Morrigan used an existing Eluvian with help from the Empress of Orlais; Merrill built a new one from a single shard while she was living in an alienage. How are the two comparable, exactly?

 

And it really does make me feel sorry for Merrill, she pretty much ruins her life trying to restore something that a human has already done for her years ago without her knowledge. I could see her falling into a deep depression and possibly suicidal if she ever learns that she ruined her life and killed her Keeper and possibly killed her clan for absolutely NOTHING because someone else already did it.

 

Merrill didn't ruin her life; she found a place in Kirkwall, becomes a leader to the disenfranchised elves who were left homeless in the wake of the Mage-Templar War, and effectively becomes a hahren to them.

 

How does becoming a successful leader and protecting the elves under her charge equate to falling into a depression?

 

If only she knew... Especially more painful somehow if a Dalish Warden was the one to find Morrigan at the end of witch hunt, though I can't pinpoint what makes me feel that. Anyway, this aspect does make me feel like Merrill is probably the most sympathetic and sad character in DA2 because she's the only one that ruined everything in her life for no actual reason. Everyone else at least accomplished what they wanted by the end, even Anders ultimately got his wish (that wish being mages getting to openly fight for themselves and a destruction of the circle system as they had existed for ages). Merrill? She failed at everything she tried, and even if she had succeed at getting the mirror working it wouldn't have mattered because someone else already did.

 

Merrill wanted to end the plight of the Elvhen; as she explains, she thought the Eluvian would help with that. As Briala's story shows, Merrill was absolutely correct in her assertion that the Eluvians could benefit the elves.

 

But yeah, back to the initial point of this topic... Is Morrigan just that much better?

 

At what? Merrill built an Eluvian; Morrigan used an existing one with the resources of the Orlesian Empire. So far, you haven't actually addressed anything where we could actually compare the two.

[Medhia_Nox]

@LobselVith8:  Didn't Merril have demons assisting her in the endeavor?
 

I left her sitting in the alienage staring at broken glass the entire game once she told me blood magic, demons and ancient elven history so I actually don't know.

[LobselVith8]

@LobselVith8:  Didn't Merril have demons assisting her in the endeavor?
 

I left her sitting in the alienage staring at broken glass the entire game once she told me blood magic, demons and ancient elven history so I actually don't know.

 

Gaider explained in a post that Merrill was building the Eluvian from the shard she took from Ferelden and lore she was studying about the artifacts; she did use Audacity to learn blood magic because the spell she knew to cleanse the shard required a certain amount of lyrium that she simply didn't have access to.

[Medhia_Nox]

Gaider explained in a post that Merrill was building the Eluvian from the shard she took from Ferelden and lore she was studying about the artifacts; she did use Audacity to learn blood magic because the spell she knew to cleanse the shard required a certain amount of lyrium that she simply didn't have access to.

 

Well - it's unfair to say she actually made an Eluvian.  I can put car parts all in the same spot... if I can't drive it - I didn't build a car. 

 

I was under the impression that the lore was also garnered from demons... which would, for me, also mean she didn't do it alone at all.

[LobselVith8]

Well - it's unfair to say she actually made an Eluvian.  I can put car parts all in the same spot... if I can't drive it - I didn't build a car. 

 

I was under the impression that the lore was also garnered from demons... which would, for me, also mean she didn't do it alone at all.

 

I'd argue that Merrill built one as she simply had a single shard from the original one in the Elven Ruins. And we already know the Dalish have some lore gathered; Morrigan borrowed one of their elven books in order to activate the Dragonbone Eluvian.

[Sifr]

Well - it's unfair to say she actually made an Eluvian.  I can put car parts all in the same spot... if I can't drive it - I didn't build a car. 

 

I was under the impression that the lore was also garnered from demons... which would, for me, also mean she didn't do it alone at all.

 

The only reason that Merrill's Eluvian didn't work is because she didn't know it needed to be primed with a unique key.

 

Using your analogy, you actually did build a car by reassembling all the pieces into the right places. The machine should work, but the only reason you can't drive it anywhere is because, much like Merrill, you didn't know you needed to put a key in the ignition first.

 

Building a working Eluvian - even if you can't figure how to turn the thing on - is still quite an impressive feat.

[Hellion Rex]

The only reason that Merrill's Eluvian didn't work is because she didn't know it needed to be primed with a unique key.

Using your analogy, you actually did build a car by reassembling all the pieces into the right places. The machine should work, but the only reason you can't drive it anywhere is because, much like Merrill, you didn't know you needed to put a key in the ignition first.

Building a working Eluvian - even if you can't figure how to turn the thing on - is still quite an impressive feat.

Well, technically it wasn't really working, *because* she couldn't turn it on. Semantics, I know, but still.

[MisterJB]

That doesn't make sense.

Merrill built an Eluvian from scratch and yet it still required a unique key that she herself didn't build?

If I was building a car from scratch, it wouldn't matter that all the other cars in the world needed to insert the key in the ignition to start because I would build my car to be able to start with a system that I could use.

 

If I was repairing a car and I lacked the original key, then it would make sense I couldn't start it, however.

[LobselVith8]

That doesn't make sense.

Merrill built an Eluvian from scratch and yet it still required a unique key that she herself didn't build?

If I was building a car from scratch, it wouldn't matter that all the other cars in the world needed to insert the key in the ignition to start because I would build my car to be able to start with a system that I could use.

 

If I was repairing a car and I lacked the original key, then it would make sense I couldn't start it, however.

 

Because the analogy isn't exact. Merrill's Eluvian appears in the Crossroads if the Friendship Path was imported (or it's Crossroads counterpart to be more precise), so it seems her Eluvian became tied to the existing Crossroads network that was created by the ancient elves (which would explain why a 'key' is needed).​

[Hellion Rex]

Because the analogy isn't exact. Merrill's Eluvian appears in the Crossroads if the Friendship Path was imported (or it's Crossroads counterpart to be more precise), so it seems her Eluvian became tied to the existing Crossroads network that was created by the ancient elves (which would explain why a 'key' is needed).​

Pretty sure it appears whether or not the Friendship is imported. But I do find it interesting that the mirror's counterpart does still remain in the Crossroad and retains the DA2 rendering. Perhaps as the mirror was remade, so too did the counterpart change?

[LobselVith8]

Pretty sure it appears whether or not the Friendship is imported. But I do find it interesting that the mirror's counterpart does still remain in the Crossroad and retains the DA2 rendering. Perhaps as the mirror was remade, so too did the counterpart change?

 

DragonFlight has said that he compared an import with Friendship against an import with Rivalry and that Merrill's Eluvian didn't appear when Merrill was in rivalry (when she smashed the Eluvian); others have made the same comments.

 

I think that the reason that the Crossroads counterpart looks like Merrill's is because hers is technically new (it simply incorporates a single shard from the original one); the one in the Elven Ruins in Ferelden was smashed into pieces (the Warden can take one of the shards when Ariane and Finn tag along for "Witch Hunt", and other elves were corrupted by the other pieces and became ghouls), so I think the Crossroads likely considers hers an entirely 'new' one.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

The only reason that Merrill's Eluvian didn't work is because she didn't know it needed to be primed with a unique key.

 

 

I would like to add that the key did not existed since the eluvian was new and not a pre existent one but actually this was not even her purpose she wanted to restore the eluvain not to cross it.

[German Soldier]

Actually, Merrill successfully cleansed a tainted shard she took from the original Eluvian in Ferelden, then studied lore on the Eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard, creating an entirely new Eluvian from scratch. Morrigan used an existing Eluvian from the time of Arlathan. It's apples and oranges.

 

 

Morrigan used an existing Eluvian with help from the Empress of Orlais; Merrill built a new one from a single shard while she was living in an alienage. How are the two comparable, exactly?

 

 

Merrill didn't ruin her life; she found a place in Kirkwall, becomes a leader to the disenfranchised elves who were left homeless in the wake of the Mage-Templar War, and effectively becomes a hahren to them.

 

How does becoming a successful leader and protecting the elves under her charge equate to falling into a depression?

 

 

Merrill wanted to end the plight of the Elvhen; as she explains, she thought the Eluvian would help with that. As Briala's story shows, Merrill was absolutely correct in her assertion that the Eluvians could benefit the elves.

 

 

At what? Merrill built an Eluvian; Morrigan used an existing one with the resources of the Orlesian Empire. So far, you haven't actually addressed anything where we could actually compare the two.

The eluvian of Merril is the eluvian of Merrill while the one found by Morrigan in the Dlc was built by the elves of Arlathan even it's key Morrigan didn't even created the key.

[Akiza]

 

snip

 

But yeah, back to the initial point of this topic... Is Morrigan just that much better?

 

Morrigan stole the key from the Dalish she did not make it  she found the eluvian in WH she did not make it on her own.

 

Morrigan at the end of DAI  has absolutely nothing other than being potentially defeated by Mythal 

(potentially twice since she  took her freedom and even the old god )  So what she achieved that she is considered to be so intelligent ?

[LobselVith8]

Are you basing her being unable to understand deception based on her failure to realise that someone in the Alienage was mugged (thinking it was a greeting), or that during "Finders Keepers" that Hawke was pulling a Bavarian Fire Drill by claming that there is a fire in the warehouse?

 

I think Merrill was simply using dry humor about her situation in the Alienage; she knows that things are bad because of the poverty, crime, and the other factors that keep the elves in a poor economic state under human rule. Her dialogue with Master Ilen does illustrate this:

 

Ilen: Ah, Merrill... you've returned! How has your time been amongst the shemlen?

 

Merrill: It's been nothing but roses and rainbows, Master Ilen. The Alienage is lovely in the spring. The collapsing shacks and drunken brutes are nicely offset by the knee-deep mud.

 

She uses dry humor a bit, which I think was the point of her bringing up the muggings - it's not exactly a safe place to live, and Hawke should really understand that at this point, having lived for over a year in Kirkwall; sometimes the people around her don't get it, like when she jokes to Anders about the Dalish sacrificing people to 'sky gods' and he thinks she's being completely serious:

 

Anders: Do the Dalish ever have fancy parties? I always imagined they celebrated most big occasions by eating mushrooms and acorns. And maybe dancing naked around a campfire.

 

Merrill: You know, I was wondering when the naked dancing was going to start. And the human sacrifice. I mean, you just can't throw a decent party without kidnapping a human child and offering her entrails to the sky gods.

 

Anders: Really?

 

Merrill: No.

[Steelcan]

Its truly amazing how Merrill's fans will say she's got a dry sense of humor complete with sarcasm and irony (ie something that most people who learn other languages will never develop for said new language) one minute, but then say she's completely enthralled by culture shock the next.

[Cyberpunk]

Merrill is not sarcastic nor does she have a dry humor. She is an optimistic and naive, pure Dalish First. 

[LobselVith8]

Merrill is not sarcastic nor does she have a dry humor. She is an optimistic and naive, pure Dalish First.

I'm pretty sure Merrill wasn't seriously telling Ilen that it was "roses and rainbows" in the Alienage.

[The Ascendant]

Despite their knowledge, they both had shortcomings. Merrill almost ended up possessed by a Demon in her desire to rebuild the Eluvian, Morrigan either ends up or avoids control by the one person she hates most in the world, and they were both powerful, intelligent, socially awkward apostates. 

[Cyberpunk]

I'm pretty sure Merrill wasn't seriously telling Ilen that it was "roses and rainbows" in the Alienage.

 

Being sarcastic once or twice  doesn't mean a person is a sarcastic person with a dry humor though. 

[LobselVith8]

Despite their knowledge, they both had shortcomings. Merrill almost ended up possessed by a Demon in her desire to rebuild the Eluvian, Morrigan either ends up or avoids control by the one person she hates most in the world, and they were both powerful, intelligent, socially awkward apostates. 

 

Marethari never claimed Merrill was going to intentionally set Audacity free; she said that Audacity would escape through the Eluvian, which doesn't seem possible since the spirit was trapped in a totem in the real world. Merrill also tells an aggressive Hawke she has no intention of setting Audacity free from the totem. I suppose you could argue she could have gotten possessed by abomination Marethari.

 

Being sarcastic once or twice  doesn't mean a person is a sarcastic person with a dry humor though. 

 

I'm really not sure what your argument is here. I pointed out that Merrill uses dry humor, which is clearly the case from her dialogue - we see it plenty of times, from her joking with Anders about the name of his cat to kidding around with Varric about his similarity to Hahren Paivel. Even Carver calls Merrill out on "doing that on purpose" in MoTA.

 

That doesn't mean she isn't serious as well. She clearly cares about the Dalish, she shows plenty of empathy and concern for the elves in the Alienage and the Ferelden refugees. Her attempts with the Eluvian are, perhaps, the greatest indication that she's willing to push herself to try and give the People something that can put an end to their decline, and possibly irrevocably change their lives for the better. But there are far too many instances of her using dry humor to simply write it off.