434 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Elves do a different kind of magic than the one taught in Circles, as Solas explicitly says to an elven mage Inquisitor. Eluvians being elven artifacts, the magic needed to unlock them must be elven or connect to elven magic in some way or another. Which is still closer to an Dalish mage than Morrigan, however apostate or unorthodox her magic is. However, I do agree that it is possible Flemeth left that knowledge for Morrigan to find.

I don't agree that Keepers intend to bury knowledge; Dalish clans trying to make a living in the woods simply don't have the resources to try to preserve the little knowledge they have and may find, and research for discoveries at the same time. Marethari wants Merrill to let the Eluvian rest as it has done enough damage to their clan and she thinks nothing good can come out of it and it's not worth the risk; turns out she's right. If there was a time when elves had the power and knowledge to deal with a tainted eluvian, it's certainly not now.

 

I think he says their magic is only slightly different because of which spells they learn and such. He evens says "magic is magic."

[Boost32]

She'd probably want to as well.

She would have her elven knowledge and I would have peace of mind, it would be a win-win.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Dog is much more competent and intelligent than Terribl.

[NaclynE]

Merrill spends 6 years trying to restore a mirror (I know it's called something else but I'm too lazy to look up spelling it) and UTTERLY fails. Completely. She spends the better part of a decade trying and gets no where. Morrigan on the other hand spends only about a year or 2 to completely fix one to the point of being fully functional and able to bring her to the crossroads. Was there a difference in how broken they each were and so Morrigan had it easier, or is she just so dang good that she did in less than 2 years what Merrill couldn't in 6 and made her look like a complete idiot?

 

And it really does make me feel sorry for Merrill, she pretty much ruins her life trying to restore something that a human has already done for her years ago without her knowledge. I could see her falling into a deep depression and possibly suicidal if she ever learns that she ruined her life and killed her Keeper and possibly killed her clan for absolutely NOTHING because someone else already did it. If only she knew... Especially more painful somehow if a Dalish Warden was the one to find Morrigan at the end of witch hunt, though I can't pinpoint what makes me feel that. Anyway, this aspect does make me feel like Merrill is probably the most sympathetic and sad character in DA2 because she's the only one that ruined everything in her life for no actual reason. Everyone else at least accomplished what they wanted by the end, even Anders ultimately got his wish (that wish being mages getting to openly fight for themselves and a destruction of the circle system as they had existed for ages). Merrill? She failed at everything she tried, and even if she had succeed at getting the mirror working it wouldn't have mattered because someone else already did.

 

But yeah, back to the initial point of this topic... Is Morrigan just that much better?

 

You need to put the eluvian into account.

 

Ever since Merril got exposed to the cursed eluvian mirror from DAO Merril is losing her mind and is becoming easy to be manipulated by the demons from the cursed world within the eluvian. It's not about a competant or intelligence fight but the fact that Morrigan has a uncursed eluvian while Merril has a cursed eluvian.

[Vorathrad]

I think he says their magic is only slightly different because of which spells they learn and such. He evens says "magic is magic."

 

I'll rephrase it: elves do magic differently. And anyway if magic is magic, it doesn't matter if Morrigan does it in an "unorthodox" way. The bottom line is, to unlock an elven artifact such an eluvian you need the knowlegde on how to do it and magical power.

[ThePhoenixKing]

Still think Merrill and Morrigan should team up. Kinda like the Odd Couple, or Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain, except with more Templars getting zapped into a fine red mist.

[katamuro]

Merill was ok, apart from her insistence on using blood magic. Its like a cute and cuddly teenager that can also flay you alive with her mind. Not a good combination. Morrigan on the other hand, for all her flaws I just cant help but like her, her wit especially.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I always saw Merrill as more competent and intelligent than Morrigan. Merrill at least knew what she was doing was dangerous and put countermeasures in place while Morrigan always saw herself as stronger than the dangers and capable of handling it without such things.  

[dragonflight288]

 

 

Marethari wants Merrill to let the Eluvian rest as it has done enough damage to their clan and she thinks nothing good can come out of it and it's not worth the risk; turns out she's right. If there was a time when elves had the power and knowledge to deal with a tainted eluvian, it's certainly not now. 

 

And yet Merrill manages to cleanse the shard she took of the blight, and then proceeded to extrapolate information from it and built her own eluvian from scratch while Merethari in Act 2 is saying "she'll bring back the taint!" and in Act 3 ends up possessed, and while possessed says "The demon was using her to escape!" while conveniently helping said demon escape.

 

Besides, I think Inquisition and the Masked Empire together prove that Merrill was right about the eluvians and Merethari was wrong. 

[dragonflight288]

You need to put the eluvian into account.

 

Ever since Merril got exposed to the cursed eluvian mirror from DAO Merril is losing her mind and is becoming easy to be manipulated by the demons from the cursed world within the eluvian. It's not about a competant or intelligence fight but the fact that Morrigan has a uncursed eluvian while Merril has a cursed eluvian.

 

It's not cursed, it's tainted by darkspawn, and she only took a shard, cleansed it, avoided becoming a ghoul, and no one in the alienage became a ghoul so that proves she succeeded, and then the develpers confirmed she extrapolated that knowledge and built one from scratch.

 

Her eluvian was one she built herself. 

[dragonflight288]

I always saw Merrill as more competent and intelligent than Morrigan. Merrill at least knew what she was doing was dangerous and put countermeasures in place while Morrigan always saw herself as stronger than the dangers and capable of handling it without such things.  

 

And Morrigan completely ignores the geas in the Well of Sorrows, even if she is outright warned about it. 

 

At least until she finds out it would've (or does) bind her to Flemeth. 

[Sifr]

I always saw Merrill as more competent and intelligent than Morrigan. Merrill at least knew what she was doing was dangerous and put countermeasures in place while Morrigan always saw herself as stronger than the dangers and capable of handling it without such things.  

 

Exactly, Merrill made it clear to Hawke that she wants them to be her failsafe and kill her if something ever went wrong, that lead to her getting possessed, showing that despite her obsession with fixing the Eluvian she still was taking precautions and wasn't blind to the risks to herself and others.

 

Compare that to Morrigan, who for all her brilliance, has been extremely cavalier when it comes to taking any precautions in the pursuit of arcane knowledge and often let her ego blind her to the dangers that she puts herself and other people in.

 

While Morrigan might be smarter, Merrill comes across as being the wiser of the two.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And Morrigan completely ignores the geas in the Well of Sorrows, even if she is outright warned about it. 

 

At least until she finds out it would've (or does) bind her to Flemeth. 

Yeah, until Flemeth's reveal of being merged with Mythal Morrigan treats the Geass as "an empty threat from a dead god". 

 

Exactly, Merrill made it clear to Hawke that she wants them to be her failsafe and kill her if something ever went wrong, that lead to her getting possessed, showing that despite her obsession with fixing the Eluvian she still was taking precautions and wasn't blind to the risks to herself and others.

 

Compare that to Morrigan, who for all her brilliance, has been extremely cavalier when it comes to taking any precautions in the pursuit of arcane knowledge and often let her ego blind her to the dangers that she puts herself and other people in.

 

While Morrigan might be smarter, Merrill comes across as being the wiser of the two.

Exactly. The difference between Morrigan and Merrill reminds me of the Star Wars line from Dex, "I would think that you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and wisdom." Morrigan has more knowledge than Merrill, but Merrill has more wisdom than Morrigan. 

[DebatableBubble]

Exactly, Merrill made it clear to Hawke that she wants them to be her failsafe and kill her if something ever went wrong, that lead to her getting possessed, showing that despite her obsession with fixing the Eluvian she still was taking precautions and wasn't blind to the risks to herself and others.

 

Compare that to Morrigan, who for all her brilliance, has been extremely cavalier when it comes to taking any precautions in the pursuit of arcane knowledge and often let her ego blind her to the dangers that she puts herself and other people in.

 

While Morrigan might be smarter, Merrill comes across as being the wiser of the two.

 

Agreed. As a fan of Morri and as someone who never approved of Merrill tampering with the Eluvian, she at least was aware that what she was doing could blow up in her face. 

 

So, yeah. What you said. I just wanted to repeat it in a slightly different way to make it seem like I'm adding something to the conversation.

[DebatableBubble]

Yeah, until Flemeth's reveal of being merged with Mythal Morrigan treats the Geass as "an empty threat from a dead god". 

 

Exactly. The difference between Morrigan and Merrill reminds me of the Star Wars line from Dex, "I would think that you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and wisdom." Morrigan has more knowledge than Merrill, but Merrill has more wisdom than Morrigan. 

 

 

I always liked that guy. I'd have breakfast at his retro sci-fi diner.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I always liked that guy. I'd have breakfast at his retro sci-fi diner.

Me too. One of my favorite characters in the Prequel Trilogy. 

 

I also love how the Krogan kind of look like him. 

[DebatableBubble]

Me too. One of my favorite characters in the Prequel Trilogy. 

 

I also love how the Krogan kind of look like him. 

 

I can see where the Krogan get their bada**ery from.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LoL merril wiser than morrigan? Morrigan was at least wise enough to not make deal with demons merril didn't and get screwd twice by them and even when proven she can't handle demons she didn't learn a lesson claming she can handle them.Of course both ladies aren't very wise (what makes warden comment about morrigan pretty funny and odd) , but morrigan beats merril years and years not only because her knowledge but also because she is at least smart/not dumb to fail recognize simple deception. 

[Mistic]

Exactly, Merrill made it clear to Hawke that she wants them to be her failsafe and kill her if something ever went wrong, that lead to her getting possessed, showing that despite her obsession with fixing the Eluvian she still was taking precautions and wasn't blind to the risks to herself and others.

 

True, but Merrill makes a too often overlooked mistake: thinking that "demon possession" and "blighted shards" are the only risks.

 

The Masked Empire tells us that two mirrors can connect directly; what if there's a darkspawn nest on the other side? That's the biggest risk in this scenario. Cleansing broken shards wouldn't have prevented anything in that case.

[Aren]

His plans always blow up, they never went how he expect.
He wanted to give the elves free reign in their future so he aprisioned the creator and forgotten ones, what happened? The elves destroyed themselves.
He wanted to unlock his orb's power, he gave it to Corypheus and what happened? Breach, demons, death and destruction.
He allied with the Inquisition to recover his orb, what happened? The Orb was destroyed.
His plans always fail, and now he killed Flemeth to have the power to help the elves, and I'm prety sure it will be a catastrophe again.

In fact I think he should be the god of failure.

 

n1 are assumptions you know nothing of the anicent elves

n2 again Corypheus action not solas

n3 to close the breach

n4 Flemeth willingly give to him her power she was not killed

[Aren]

LoL merril wiser than morrigan? Morrigan was at least wise enough to not make deal with demons merril didn't and get screwd twice by them and even when proven she can't handle demons she didn't learn a lesson claming she can handle them.Of course both ladies aren't very wise (what makes warden comment about morrigan pretty funny and odd) , but morrigan beats merril years and years not only because her knowledge but also because she is at least smart/not dumb to fail recognize simple deception. 

At least Merrill didn't get used like Morrigan (the OG soul) and didn't get enslaved to the will of someone for the eternity,if you know what the meaning of eternity is.

eternal servant,good luck with that.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

At least Merrill didn't get used like Morrigan (the OG soul) and didn't get enslaved to the will of someone for the eternity,if you know what the meaning of eternity is.

eternal servant,good luck with that.

 

Only cus hawke saved her ass from that twice (and because marethari took bullet for her).Morrigan at least learned her lesson and admited she made mistake ,merril ignored lesson twice unless you were rival with her.   

[Sifr]

LoL merril wiser than morrigan? Morrigan was at least wise enough to not make deal with demons merril didn't and get screwd twice by them and even when proven she can't handle demons she didn't learn a lesson claming she can handle them.Of course both ladies aren't very wise (what makes warden comment about morrigan pretty funny and odd) , but morrigan beats merril years and years not only because her knowledge but also because she is at least smart/not dumb to fail recognize simple deception. 

 

Except that you're forgetting that Morrigan was fully prepared to make the same kind of deal with the devil by wanting to take the Well of Sorrows for herself, even though she knew that the geas would compel her and bind her to Mythal's will, she still wanted to do it thinking that it meant nothing to be bound to a "dead" God.

 

On both occasions when Merrill almost slipped up, she was dealing with a Pride demon, one of the most powerful, insidious and manipulative demons that can exist, it's not that fair to say she's an idiot when Pride Demons are supposed to be one of the toughest things a Mage might come up against.

 

As an aside, if Solas is telling the truth and that Spirits reflect what a person expects to see, how do we know that the Pride Demon that Merrill went to help for wasn't a Spirit of Wisdom for her, but became a Demon because that's what Hawke and company thought it was?

 

Inquisition also revealed that some Spirits become Demons when they are forced to go against their purpose, so what if the Pride Demon in the cave wasn't originally a Spirit of Wisdom, that had gone insane after having been bound for an eternity and forgotten, since it was no longer able to share it's knowledge with anyone?

 

We know that Merrill went to the demon for knowledge to fix the mirror (thus seeking it for wisdom) and agreed to free it after she had fixed it, not before, which suggests that the terms of the "deal" weren't actually to become a host, merely to unbind it from it's prison.

 

While the demon presumably was planning to possess her, it's possible that once unbound it might have been restored to it's original state and been harmless, much like what happened to Solas' friend? Which could mean that by allowing herself to become possessed, Marethari screwed up a plan to outfox and neutralise the demon.

 

(Course, am just speculating at this point. We don't really know what her plan was, and even if Merrill had such a cunning plan, it definitely could have gone horribly wrong in a billion other ways, so she's not entirely off the hook)

 

True, but Merrill makes a too often overlooked mistake: thinking that "demon possession" and "blighted shards" are the only risks.

 

The Masked Empire tells us that two mirrors can connect directly; what if there's a darkspawn nest on the other side? That's the biggest risk in this scenario. Cleansing broken shards wouldn't have prevented anything in that case.

 

True, but Morrigan has been just as dangerous and reckless in her own pursuit of the Eluvians it seems.

 

While she didn't go to the Arbor Wilds because it was too dangerous, it's kinda funny that her next choice was an Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes which (assuming that they weren't just reusing the assets) was located in the the former site of the Mother's Lair from Awakening. Morrigan could have had to cleanse her own Eluvian before she could safely risk using it, since it was in a blight-infested hole.

 

During the scene in the Crossroads she implies that she's been exploring the Eluvian network for a while, so how does she know which Eluvians are safe or not? Does she have some kind of MALP she sends through to make sure that her destination isn't at the bottom of a river, in a volcano or surrounded by darkspawn, or does she simply wing it and hope for the best?

[Master Warder Z_]

She'd probably want to as well.

She's sort of stupid so probably