297 réponses à ce sujet

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I have young children in my home. They are intelligent enough to know hurting, killing, swearing is wrong (if they swear with friends or anything, to me it's not a big deal once they're older. just not now or in public or family, imo). I reinforced that it's just a game, don't do these things so it's been a smooth time with video games. Now, sexual conduct in games is no biggie once they are teenagers. Right now, they love watching Dragon Age and all with the High Dragons- I even let him beat one for me, it was fun watching him jump with excitement...but I won't play Cass' love scene in front of them. With supervision, games like Halo isn't bad to me. I don't know how to explain this but some mature things can be played with supervision and reinforcement of game vs. Reality in my opinion. If my child was 14, Cass' scene is okay to me for them to understand.

[Majestic Jazz]

There is the problem. You play for a different reason. The key element here is "one size does not fit all".


Your comment: "these games are simply not for you"

You don't control this.

Bioware wants to expand their market. That is why they made it open world. An excellent time for them to pick up Elder Scroll customers. So there are no rules that say you must fall in love with characters. The package doesn't say you must have romance does it? It states player's choice.

So it is not a joke.

You make the characters real in your mind.

I see them as just characters AIs with a script, because that is what they are. As for the story, again it is excellent and well written.

Lol

Better enjoy DAI all you can cause if you think DA4 will be DAI v2.0 then you are wrong. They wanted the Skyrim customers yes, but they wanted the Skyrim customers to adopt Bioware style gameplay. However, Bioware was held back because they had to create parity between the past and current gen consoles. The result was that the game had VERY limited cutscenes as well as a bunch of other cut content and the result was DAI.

With DA4, they would look more towards Witcher 3 and Mass Effect 4 in regards to inspiration. DA4 will not be another Skyrim light.

So there, dont think that DAI represents a new paradigm shift for Dragon Age.

[Majestic Jazz]

I have young children in my home. They are intelligent enough to know hurting, killing, swearing is wrong (if they swear with friends or anything, to me it's not a big deal once they're older. just not now or in public or family, imo). I reinforced that it's just a game, don't do these things so it's been a smooth time with video games. Now, sexual conduct in games is no biggie once they are teenagers. Right now, they love watching Dragon Age and all with the High Dragons- I even let him beat one for me, it was fun watching him jump with excitement...but I won't play Cass' love scene in front of them. With supervision, games like Halo isn't bad to me. I don't know how to explain this but some mature things can be played with supervision and reinforcement of game vs. Reality in my opinion. If my child was 14, Cass' scene is okay to me for them to understand.

This is my point. Your comment explains exactly how western society makes sex/nudity such a taboo but not so much with violence. It is okay for kids to see virtual decapitations and hear crude language, but seeing virtual breast is an extrene "no no"

This I will never get. At least the Cass love scene is a natural human interaction that represents love and affection. But yet that is still worse than throats being sliced, drug usage, and foul language.

I mean you are the parent I have to respect how you raise your children. I just dont get how throughout human history that nake bodies became so taboo. What is it about a nake male and female body that is repulsive?

I dont know, I guess to each their own.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Deus Ex is exactly what I thought of when you mentioned nonviolent interactions.

 

EDIT: I also thought the judgments were a great experiment in it. Especially if you had different perks or completed certain conditions because you could then choose unique ways to resolve the issues presented to you.

Yeah, the Judgements were another great example of Bioware having nonviolent options. With those, you can go from being forgiving to everyone to being the Red Queen and going "Off with their heads!". 

 

Does the inquisitor use profanity if you stick to diplomatic choices?  I can see it with funny or direct, but I think there's always something you can say that's not profane.  The inquisitor can choose not to drink, even with Bull.  You'll lose a little approval, but kill another dragon with him and he'll forget all about it.  The thing is, this is a triple A game, and there's going to be a lot of gritty stuff going on.  And, there's a warning about profanity, alcohol use, and sexual situations right on the cover, so you can't say you weren't warned.  I also think that way stuff is handled is a lot better than it was in DAO.  You get in a drinking contest and fall down and Oghren laughs vs. you celebrate killing a dragon with Bull and enjoy a bonding moment.

I was referring more to Commander Shepard with the Bioware assumes how you'll play thing, actually. In that series, Bioware wrote it so that despite Shepard being "your character", they do things like swear and drink. The Inquisitor did better due to being more a blank slate character, but with the dislike of that kind of character expressed on these boards I'm worried they'll go more predefined in future Bioware games like they did with Shepard. 

[KaiserShep]

I don't recall Shepard ever drinking without you actively engaging it, though the Citadel DLC might change this with the bottles around Shepard's bed the morning after the party.

 

The Inquisitor did better due to being more a blank slate character, but with the dislike of that kind of character expressed on these boards I'm worried they'll go more predefined in future Bioware games like they did with Shepard. 

 

I'm not so sure about that. Some fans go on and on about the Warden, and that slate is so blank it makes Red Square look like a Jackson P*llock painting.

 

Edit: What the deuce? Seriously? A famous painter's last name is actually censored. Oh what an age we live in.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This is my point. Your comment explains exactly how western society makes sex/nudity such a taboo but not so much with violence. It is okay for kids to see virtual decapitations and hear crude language, but seeing virtual breast is an extrene "no no"

This I will never get. At least the Cass love scene is a natural human interaction that represents love and affection. But yet that is still worse than throats being sliced, drug usage, and foul language.

I mean you are the parent I have to respect how you raise your children. I just dont get how throughout human history that nake bodies became so taboo. What is it about a nake male and female body that is repulsive?

I dont know, I guess to each their own.

To be fair, most games are not explicit when it comes to violence. For example the poster you replied to mentioned Halo, whose violence can be summed up as "people lay on the ground with no wounds and barely any blood when killed" no matter how they are. The only exception is the disintegration caused by Forerunner weapons, but that is also a very clean death since the person just disappears. The sex scene equivalent to these games would be a Fade To Black. With both, you know what happens but you don't see anything. 

 

When it comes to more visceral and gory games, like say Dead Space or Gears of War, there are a lot more parents going "This isn't something I want my kids to see.". Just like when there is a more explicit sex scene.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't recall Shepard ever drinking without you actively engaging it, though the Citadel DLC might change this with the bottles around Shepard's bed the morning after the party.

 

 

I'm not so sure about that. Some fans go on and on about the Warden, and that slate is so blank it makes Red Square look like a Jackson ****** painting.

It is made canon when you hang out with Kaidan in ME3, when for lunch you and he get an alcoholic beverage. The Citadel DLC does this too, both with the party and with a couple scenes when you hang out with a squadmate, like for example with Kaidan again.

 

I've seen a lot more people want a Hawke/Shepard character rather than a Warden/Inquisitor character. 

[XEternalXDreamsX]

This is my point. Your comment explains exactly how western society makes sex/nudity such a taboo but not so much with violence. It is okay for kids to see virtual decapitations and hear crude language, but seeing virtual breast is an extrene "no no"

This I will never get. At least the Cass love scene is a natural human interaction that represents love and affection. But yet that is still worse than throats being sliced, drug usage, and foul language.

I mean you are the parent I have to respect how you raise your children. I just dont get how throughout human history that nake bodies became so taboo. What is it about a nake male and female body that is repulsive?

I dont know, I guess to each their own.

I understand where you are coming from. It's easier for me to explain the violence and why they shouldn't do it. Drugs, nah, I would rather them not see it at a young age and keep it from them seeing it at a young age on movies and games because the way games imply it. Id like to explain what drugs are and why not to do it but maybe when they are older. Nudity, on the other hand, isn't something I would be against in a video game if it wasn't implied sex, ect. My wife can breastfeed (as well as my sister) in front of them like second nature. It's not the nudity but it's what is implied during the scene. Imo, I'm not going to say "hey, guys. This is bad/wrong.dont do this" Because it's not wrong, yet I'd rather explain it to them and they understand the concept of romance/sex as a teenager. Any sooner could imply that it's okay to do it with other people. If the whole DA squad went out skinny dipping, it's fine. Sex scenes or implied sex is different. All imo, of course.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

To be fair, most games are not explicit when it comes to violence. For example the poster you replied to mentioned Halo, whose violence can be summed up as "people lay on the ground with no wounds and barely any blood when killed" no matter how they are. The only exception is the disintegration caused by Forerunner weapons, but that is also a very clean death since the person just disappears. The sex scene equivalent to these games would be a Fade To Black. With both, you know what happens but you don't see anything.

When it comes to more visceral and gory games, like say Dead Space or Gears of War, there are a lot more parents going "This isn't something I want my kids to see.". Just like when there is a more explicit sex scene.

I'm glad you mentioned Gears of War and Dead Space. I think I am on that level where it goes too far for my kids. 12 and older, I would feel alright. Even if the Board says 18 or older to purchase. I guess I just prefer my kids to be 12 or older before experiencing all mature games have to offer.

[KaiserShep]

I once walked in on my 12 year old cousin playing The Last Of Us by herself. Watching her reactions was priceless XD

[Cobra's_back]

Lol

Better enjoy DAI all you can cause if you think DA4 will be DAI v2.0 then you are wrong. They wanted the Skyrim customers yes, but they wanted the Skyrim customers to adopt Bioware style gameplay. However, Bioware was held back because they had to create parity between the past and current gen consoles. The result was that the game had VERY limited cutscenes as well as a bunch of other cut content and the result was DAI.

With DA4, they would look more towards Witcher 3 and Mass Effect 4 in regards to inspiration. DA4 will not be another Skyrim light.

So there, dont think that DAI represents a new paradigm shift for Dragon Age.

 

 

OMG,

 

Where did I predict what DA4 was going to do? I would not try to predict the future of DA4. As for the customer base, they tend to do whatever they want. Not everyone will care to adept because the game is clearly not a need. As we all know Elder Scroll on-line didn't do well.

 

The open world catches the attention of many Elder Scroll fans. That is what made Skyrim huge. I'm glad you have an inside track on DA4 good for you. I can wait and hear what friends say about it. Not in any hurry.

[Cobra's_back]

Thank you for clearing that up for us professor because we totally didn't know the difference between real and simulated love. Some of us don't care if what we're seeing is just generated pixels and artificial dialogue, we just want an amusing romance to go along with  our story. We get it computer generated husbando & waifus are totes fake n stuff!1!1!1!1 You can stfu & gtfo of my thread with your argumentative hyperanalytical bullshit now.

 

Your post lacks maturity. Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, when you go down the road of personal attacks you loss. You don't own the thread nor can you dictate who makes a comment. 

[Cobra's_back]

It is, however, no different from saying "we need more nudity" is it. They are the same thing, people trying to force their world view on others. I don't care, one way or the other, and I have seen no compelling reason to jump on the bandwagon. The arguments presented would have held water in Origins, or DA 2, but here, not so much. They are wanting it because they want it, and they feel like because they want it, everyone else should too.

 

That is the main point right there. There seems to be a group of people that can not come to terms with player's choice. It seems they must dictate what players need to have in their video game. Life just doesn't happen that way. I have no idea what a future game may have. I just know that i may or may not be interested in it. I believe the more someone tries to dictate the more a person is inclined to say no. 

[Ilwerin]

There is the problem. You play for a different reason. The key element here is "one size does not fit all". 
 
 
Your comment: "these games are simply not for you"
 
You don't control this.
 
Bioware wants to expand their market. That is why they made it open world. An excellent time for them to pick up Elder Scroll customers. So there are no rules that say you must fall in love with characters. The package doesn't say you must have romance does it? It states player's choice.
 
So it is not a joke.
 
You make the characters real in your mind.
 
I see them as just characters AIs with a script, because that is what they are. As for the story, again it is excellent and well written.

I am a great fan of TES - I love Morrowind. I like open world, I like collecting junk and decorating my house with that, but BW games do not need to have the same features, I love them for other - more unique features. You are right that everybody plays for different reasons - but how you can criticize suitability of nudity, when you miss the whole purpose or sense of romantic scenes.
 
You are still talking about market, no one cares how long you play, for which reasons, married or not, you purchased the game? Great! Come again...
 
Oh, yes... so you don´t watch movies or read books because everything is also according to a script so it isn´t depicting anything "real". So why bother...
 

I have young children in my home. They are intelligent enough to know hurting, killing, swearing is wrong (if they swear with friends or anything, to me it's not a big deal once they're older. just not now or in public or family, imo). I reinforced that it's just a game, don't do these things so it's been a smooth time with video games. Now, sexual conduct in games is no biggie once they are teenagers. Right now, they love watching Dragon Age and all with the High Dragons- I even let him beat one for me, it was fun watching him jump with excitement...but I won't play Cass' love scene in front of them. With supervision, games like Halo isn't bad to me. I don't know how to explain this but some mature things can be played with supervision and reinforcement of game vs. Reality in my opinion. If my child was 14, Cass' scene is okay to me for them to understand.

We have different view on this... I raise my children differently, I just see violence more "harmfull" than nudity and DAI sex / post sex scenes... as Majestic Jazz fittingly replied - cannot be more true, unfortunatelly.

[Cobra's_back]

I am a great fan of TES - I love Morrowind. I like open world, I like collecting junk and decorating my house with that, but BW games do not need to have the same features, I love them for other - more unique features. You are right that everybody plays for different reasons - but how you can criticize suitability of nudity, when you miss the whole purpose or sense of romantic scenes.
 
You are still talking about market, no one cares how long you play, for which reasons, married or not, you purchased the game? Great! Come again...
 
Oh, yes... so you don´t watch movies or read books because everything is also according to a script so it isn´t depicting anything "real". So why bother...
 

We have different view on this... I raise my children differently, I just see violence more "harmfull" than nudity and DAI sex / post sex scenes... as Majestic Jazz fittingly replied - cannot be more true, unfortunatelly.

 

There is nothing wrong with what Bioware offers today. The question was asked do we need more. I don't think we do and that is my opinion. 

 

Your comment: you raise your kids differently?????

 

How do you know how I raise mine? More assumptions I take it.

 

 

Your comment:"You are still talking about market, no one cares how long you play, for which reasons, married or not, you purchased the game? Great! Come again..."

 

 

Answer: If you don't want me to talk about the market why are you telling me what to play? Your post said the game was not for me. Assuming you know there target market. Is that your responsibility? If you didn't want to hear the response, don't send me a post.

 

your comment: "Oh, yes... so you don´t watch movies or read books because everything is also according to a script so it isn´t depicting anything "real". So why bother..."

 

Where did I say I didn't read books or watch movies?  I have read the dragon age books.

[Ilwerin]

...

Read again, please, what I wrote and to whom. Or better, read all of your posts here and then you possibly understand, what I was reffering to. 

This leads nowhere, so we should move on.

[Cobra's_back]

You quoted my post and replied to it. 

 

You also misread this post:

 

"In Exile, on 29 May 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

Do you think sex scenes in books or movies are superfluous and should all be cut?

 

 

"I don't mix it. Books and movies serve a different purpose. Books and movies are more passive. I already explained why I played. Before this games, Skyrim was my favorite. So it is ALL about why a person plays a game. 

 

The movies and books are all about does it fit into the story well. 

 

 

I like the dragon age story but that is not the main reason to play. To be perfectly honest, I download the conversation choices just to get past it. I really enjoy the open world and builds. "

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

This comment doesn't say I didn't read the dragon age books. I have read them. I downloaded a walkthrough with the approval conversations.

 

Why are you taking my quotes and replying to it?

 

[Majestic Jazz]

Yeah, the Judgements were another great example of Bioware having nonviolent options. With those, you can go from being forgiving to everyone to being the Red Queen and going "Off with their heads!".

I was referring more to Commander Shepard with the Bioware assumes how you'll play thing, actually. In that series, Bioware wrote it so that despite Shepard being "your character", they do things like swear and drink. The Inquisitor did better due to being more a blank slate character, but with the dislike of that kind of character expressed on these boards I'm worried they'll go more predefined in future Bioware games like they did with Shepard.

The Warden was NOT a blank state character. He/she had a lot of personality and imemersion factor due to you being able to play his or her backstory which have the character for understanding. Also there were a large pool of various responses with various tones that the Warden can choose, which again allowed you to give the Warden a personality in the same way you could with Hawke and Shepard.

The Warden was a silent protagonist but not a stale and dull protagonist like the IQ.

And yes, expect the protagonist in DA4 to have more of a personality (that does not require head cannon). People need to understand that DA4 would not be DAI v2.0

Get it in your head, DAI was an anomoly for Bioware, not a new paradigm.

[Majestic Jazz]

I understand where you are coming from. It's easier for me to explain the violence and why they shouldn't do it. Drugs, nah, I would rather them not see it at a young age and keep it from them seeing it at a young age on movies and games because the way games imply it. Id like to explain what drugs are and why not to do it but maybe when they are older. Nudity, on the other hand, isn't something I would be against in a video game if it wasn't implied sex, ect. My wife can breastfeed (as well as my sister) in front of them like second nature. It's not the nudity but it's what is implied during the scene. Imo, I'm not going to say "hey, guys. This is bad/wrong.dont do this" Because it's not wrong, yet I'd rather explain it to them and they understand the concept of romance/sex as a teenager. Any sooner could imply that it's okay to do it with other people. If the whole DA squad went out skinny dipping, it's fine. Sex scenes or implied sex is different. All imo, of course.

Not to get off topic, but I think that is a misbelief with many parents today. They think that by not showing something to them then they wont be interested in it. Parents like to hold off certain "conversations" with their kids until they are teens but by then it is too late. Kids as early as 10 are understanding the lure behind sex and drugs so why wait until they are 14 to "bring it up"?

My dad made a risky move by showing me images from a Playboy magazine when I was like 11 years old, around the time I was taking sex eduation in the 5th grade. He wanted me to "get it out of my system" the urge to see real life naked women. He would rather control my first time being exposed to such images as he can better guide me in a mature manner going forward. He explained to me what I was looking at "pornography" and how it uses women as sex objects to make money and how this is wrong and how I should respect women and not view them as sexual objects like the images in the magazine. He then threw away the magazine when the "lesson" was over.I then went to school the next day feeling a bit more...."mature" than the other kids in my class. When we began the sex ed portion of class, I was no longer among the group who laughed and made jokes about male/female body parts.

Risky move by my dad but he knew that I was different from his generation and that my generation will be exposed to sex, drugs, and other vices at a younger age then him. So if that was the case, he would rather me learn from him and not by the internet or kids at school cause when that happens, it might be too late for you to "teach" then. And yes, by the time a kid is a teenager today, they have already "been taught" the concept of romance/sex and not by you. I think parents have a difficult time understanding this concept. Many parents still want to paint a picture for their kids that the world is full of rainbows and unicorns and try to stay away from the darker conversations until they are "older" which was fine back in the early 1900s but today it is much different. You would be surprised by some of the things that a 10 year old girl or boy knows about and it didnt come from their parents because they [parents] still want to believe that their child is 100% pure and non exposed to such things.

[DanteYoda]

From the ESRB site.

Spoiler

"This is a role-playing game in which players assume the role of a warrior battling evil forces in different dimensions. Characters use swords, axes, hammers, and magic attacks to kill fantastical creatures (e.g., demons, monsters, dwarfs) and humans in melee-style combat. Cutscenes sometimes depict characters impaled or getting their throats slit. Violent sequences are often highlighted by cries of pain, gurgling/gushing sounds, and large blood-splatter effects; blood remains on the ground in several environments. The game includes some sexual material: a female character briefly depicted in front of a man's torso (fellatio is implied); characters depicted topless or with exposed buttocks while lying in bed or after sex; some dialogue referencing sex/sexuality (e.g., “'I will bring myself sexual pleasure later, while thinking about this with great respect'” and “The way your t*ts bounce when I pin your arms and take you on the side of the bed…”). The words “f**k,” “sh*t,” and “a*shole” appear in dialogue"

 

Uhhh... feeling so victorian right now... and I live in a muslim country that's quite conservative.. I thought you westerners were supposed to be progressive and liberal and all....

Some of us try to be, others pull us back to the dark ages...

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Not to get off topic, but I think that is a misbelief with many parents today. They think that by not showing something to them then they wont be interested in it. Parents like to hold off certain "conversations" with their kids until they are teens but by then it is too late. Kids as early as 10 are understanding the lure behind sex and drugs so why wait until they are 14 to "bring it up"?

My dad made a risky move by showing me images from a Playboy magazine when I was like 11 years old, around the time I was taking sex eduation in the 5th grade. He wanted me to "get it out of my system" the urge to see real life naked women. He would rather control my first time being exposed to such images as he can better guide me in a mature manner going forward. He explained to me what I was looking at "pornography" and how it uses women as sex objects to make money and how this is wrong and how I should respect women and not view them as sexual objects like the images in the magazine. He then threw away the magazine when the "lesson" was over.I then went to school the next day feeling a bit more...."mature" than the other kids in my class. When we began the sex ed portion of class, I was no longer among the group who laughed and made jokes about male/female body parts.

Risky move by my dad but he knew that I was different from his generation and that my generation will be exposed to sex, drugs, and other vices at a younger age then him. So if that was the case, he would rather me learn from him and not by the internet or kids at school cause when that happens, it might be too late for you to "teach" then. And yes, by the time a kid is a teenager today, they have already "been taught" the concept of romance/sex and not by you. I think parents have a difficult time understanding this concept. Many parents still want to paint a picture for their kids that the world is full of rainbows and unicorns and try to stay away from the darker conversations until they are "older" which was fine back in the early 1900s but today it is much different. You would be surprised by some of the things that a 10 year old girl or boy knows about and it didnt come from their parents because they [parents] still want to believe that their child is 100% pure and non exposed to such things.

That was brave of him, I think he did it the smart way. It's just I believe 12 is when I'll have conversations about that type of stuff like your Dad did unless they have questions beforehand. It's one of the things that makes us all unique - parenting styles. Then again, things may change by then. I am trying to be open minded because I don't have complete gameplan, I just have ideas of how I would like to introduce things like, "what is violence, sex,ect."

On topic -

The Ratings board is saying what age to play this game as in purchase the game or in the child shouldn't play this? I know the answer but I am trying to stay on topic. Lol.

[robertthebard]

The Warden was NOT a blank state character. He/she had a lot of personality and imemersion factor due to you being able to play his or her backstory which have the character for understanding. Also there were a large pool of various responses with various tones that the Warden can choose, which again allowed you to give the Warden a personality in the same way you could with Hawke and Shepard.

What tones were those, exactly? Every time I pick a selection from the choices offered, my Wardens all just stand there staring blankly at the people they're addressing these comments and "tones" at. There was a story, but there was no personality, at all. This is exactly what a blank slate means, you can insert your own personality if you chose to do so. If you want to see the end result of DA protagonists having tones, check out the DA 2 forums.

The Warden was a silent protagonist but not a stale and dull protagonist like the IQ.

Thank you for sharing your highly subjective opinion.

And yes, expect the protagonist in DA4 to have more of a personality (that does not require head cannon). People need to understand that DA4 would not be DAI v2.0

Get it in your head, DAI was an anomoly for Bioware, not a new paradigm.

Exactly what is it that you think is going to happen in the next installment, a return to the silent protagonist? Allow me to take your tone with you: Get it through your head, BioWare has already stated they have no intention of returning to that. Also, while we're talking about "understanding", where did anyone make a claim that the next installment would be DA I 2? So far, you're the only one I've seen making the claim, which you then immediately refute. So you're building your own strawman to tear down? Do you often argue with yourself? Who generally wins?

[BioWareMod07]

This thread has run it's course and is now locked.