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[sandalisthemaker]

I found something interesting while looking for non-Chantry info in World of Thedas Vol.2 .  If this was discussed already, I apologize.

 

So in DA:I we learned that the elves warred among themselves which caused their civilization to crumble. Then, we learned that a group of elves killed a human woman which triggered the Red crossing incident that led to the Exhalted March of the Dales.

 

Now, in WoT Vol 2, page 37-38 we find out that:

 

"As Tevinter began to expand its borders eastward, the Imperium first encountered the elves. Elven scouts were sometimes spotted at the edge of the forest of Arlathan by the settlers who had previously believed the forest uninhabited. The Imperium initially dismissed the settlers' stories as superstition.... but revised their stance when their legionnaires began to report skirmishes with strange creatures with pointed ears who used magic.  

 

When the Tevinters realized the forest was held by a nonhuman race, they were cautious. They sent emissaries into the forest of Arlathan to make contact with the elves, but none returned alive. The Imperium built a fortress near the border and stationed soldiers on permanent watch over the forest.

 

Over the next few decades, contact with the elves became more frequent and violent. In the summer of -998 Ancient, several Tevinter settlements in Arlathan vanished into the forest, never to be seen again. The frightened Tevinter people cried out for war....

 

.... The legions of the Imperium marched into Arlathan, found the city hidden in the heart of the forest and laid siege to it....

 

....Under increasing pressure to bring a swift end to the war with the elves, the magisters and Thalasian combined their efforts to work a blood-magic spell against the city of Arlathan. The spell sank the elven capital into the ground, destroying it utterly."

 

 

Now, this account is one sided and may not be completely accurate, but it is all we have on the subject.

 

Tldr:  It seems that the elves were antagonistic first.  Tevinter sent diplomats.  The elves responded with bloodshed and attacked Tevinter settlements. Tevinter responded with war and sank Arlathan into the ground with blood magic.

 

 

I find this fascinating and somewhat surprising. I would have thought that the elves would have been the more cautious ones considering they were still reeling from the aftermath of their own civil war. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Surprise surprise.

[Br3admax]

I'd say this pleases me, but at this point it's like adding sugar to candy bar. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Oh how embarrassing!!  I misspelled destruction in the title.  

 

And I can't figure out how to fix it. 

[Diefree85]

Not quite. See we also find out that the Elves caught mortality from us. They were afraid of humans and our mortality spreading so they isolated themselves and attempted to keep humans away. Obviously it failed.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That makes no sense. Thalsian was long dead by the time the Imperium was even founded. Sounds like retcons galore.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not quite. See we also find out that the Elves caught mortality from us

That's a myth.

[sandalisthemaker]

That makes no sense. Thalsian was long dead by the time the Imperium was even founded. Sounds like retcons galore.

 

Two different people.

 

This guy is Thalasian the Destroyer, not Thalsian the Dreamer.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh how embarrassing!!  I misspelled destruction in the title.  

 

And I can't figure out how to fix it. 

Don't worry. Elves like having lots of I's in their words apparently.

[myahele]

Not quite. See we also find out that the Elves caught mortality from us. They were afraid of humans and our mortality spreading so they isolated themselves and attempted to keep humans away. Obviously it failed.

 

The elves probably did something that made them lose their immortality...excessive use of blood magic since it weakens connection to the Fade?

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

Oh how embarrassing!! I misspelled destruction in the title.

And I can't figure out how to fix it.

Oh don't worry about it. That's not embarrassing at all.

*silently judges you*

[Br3admax]

 

The elves probably did something that made them lose their immortality...excessive use of blood magic since it weakens connection to the Fade?

 

No doubt, Volume 3 will have an entry that the elves lost their immortality from kicking too many puppies. 

[Diefree85]

Well Eleves didn't die per say before but went into a dream state. They would then wander the Fade.

[myahele]

Well Eleves didn't die per say before but went into a dream state. They would then wander the Fade.

 

Until their slaves slit their throats

[sandalisthemaker]

Well Eleves didn't die per say before but went into a dream state. They would then wander the Fade.

 

In the Masked Empire, Felassan made it sound like only the powerful mage upper class entered Uthenera.  Their servants/slaves would tend to their bodies while they were in the Fade. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Until their slaves slit their throats

My slaves! My slaves! Where are my slaves?!

[In Exile]

The elves probably did something that made them lose their immortality...excessive use of blood magic since it weakens connection to the Fade?

 

Solas pretty strongly implies it was his bad. 

[KaiserShep]

My slaves! My slaves! Where are my slaves?!

I always chuckle when Bull tells that story.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

This still strikes me as an extremely radical retcon to the timeline. The previous volume said elves and humans knew about each other thousands of years earlier. It even mentions battles between the elves and the early neromenians. It also sounds like it directly contradicts Abelas.

[In Exile]

This still strikes me as an extremely radical retcon to the timeline. The previous volume said elves and humans knew about each other thousands of years earlier. It even mentions battles between the elves and the early neromenians. It also sounds like it directly contradicts Abelas.

 

Do we know if this is an in-character piece of history (e.g. Tevinter war propaganda)?

 

Anyway, as I read it, I don't see the contradiction. While the popular history narrative in modern day Thedas frames the issue as between Tevinter and Arlathan, Elvhenan apparently had spread across all of Thedas. The contact between the elves and humans may be different between different groups.

 

More importantly, Abelas didn't say Tevinter didn't conquer the elves. He had some vague line about them destroying themselves, and he clearly means that they were weakend by infighting, with Tevinter swooping in on a weakened people (which is exactly what this story describes). 

[Master Warder Z_]

I always chuckle when Bull tells that story.

I like to think some snobby dreamer said it just before his body died in the real world.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Do we know if this is an in-character piece of history (e.g. Tevinter war propaganda)?

Anyway, as I read it, I don't see the contradiction. While the popular history narrative in modern day Thedas frames the issue as between Tevinter and Arlathan, Elvhenan apparently had spread across all of Thedas. The contact between the elves and humans may be different between different groups.

More importantly, Abelas didn't say Tevinter didn't conquer the elves. He had some vague line about them destroying themselves, and he clearly means that they were weakend by infighting, with Tevinter swooping in on a weakened people (which is exactly what this story describes).

His exact words are "The shemlen did not destroy Arlathan." In this version the magisters still sunk it beneath the earth. Why would they need to do that if it was already a ruin?

[sandalisthemaker]

Do we know if this is an in-character piece of history (e.g. Tevinter war propaganda)?

 

Anyway, as I read it, I don't see the contradiction. While the popular history narrative in modern day Thedas frames the issue as between Tevinter and Arlathan, Elvhenan apparently had spread across all of Thedas. The contact between the elves and humans may be different between different groups.

 

More importantly, Abelas didn't say Tevinter didn't conquer the elves. He had some vague line about them destroying themselves, and he clearly means that they were weakend by infighting, with Tevinter swooping in on a weakened people (which is exactly what this story describes). 

 

Well, this piece is part of the general narrative of the book.  It isn't off by itself as an excerpt from a journal entry or something similar with an author at the end. If it was, then I would be more likely to take it with a grain of salt. 

[dragonflight288]

His exact words are "The shemlen did not destroy Arlathan." In this version the magisters still sunk it beneath the earth. Why would they need to do that if it was already a ruin?

It fits into the theory that elves weakened themselves with a civil war, and tevinter conquered a weakened power.

[andy6915]

Well Eleves didn't die per say before but went into a dream state. They would then wander the Fade.

 
Yes they did. Even the ancient elves didn't last forever, elves eventually permanently die in their "long sleep".
 
http://dragonage.wik...entry:_Uthenera
 
"To the ancient elves who existed during the time of Arlathan, uthenera was an act of reverence. Elves did not age. They were not immortal, but they did not suffer from deterioration of mind or body. They suffered only from a deterioration of the spirit.
 
It did not happen often, but the oldest of the elves were said to reach a point where they became weary of life. Memories became too much to bear, and rather than fade into complacency, they voluntarily stood aside to let newer generations guide their people.
 
Uthenera means "the long sleep," in which the elder would retire to a chamber that was one part bed and one part tomb. To great ceremony from all the extended family, the elder would succumb to a slumber from which they would not wake for centuries, and often never. In time, the body would deteriorate and the elder would die in truth. All the while, family would continue to visit the chamber to pay respect to one who made such a great sacrifice.
 
With the arrival of humans and the quickening of elven blood that ensued, the practice of uthenera began to fade. When Arlathan fell, it ceased forever."