I already suggest Emerald Knights, especially since they're the ones who explicitly took part in the Red Crossing incident. Or you could just say "Dales" to refer to elves from the actual Dales nation, even if it is grammatically not quite correct (like "The Dales sacked Red Crossing or something, it fits).
You understand WHY they are called the DALISH clans, yes?
Why are you all saying "Dalish"? This is the incident that evicted them from the Dales, there were no actual Dalish as we know them back then. The Dalish clans only came about AFTER the war that started at Red Crossing, so there are no Dalish to blame.
It's a minor quibble in the scheme of things, but this makes no sense. Shouldn't you rather be saying the "Emerald Knights" or something, since blaming Dalish clans for something that occurred before they even existed is kinda nonsensical?
Well... no, you're wrong. I mean, I understand you - there were no Dalish as we understand them now, but they were the people of the Dales, they were the original Dalish in the strictest meaning of the word.
The Dalish clans call themselves Dalish precisely because this refers to their Dalish ancestry they cherish. Basically, we have Dalish clans and Dalish from the land of Dales. Yeah. It can get confusing.
For additional fun: try calling one of orlesian nobles ruling in Dales a dalish noble - which is technically correct... But they somehow don't like it stated this way 
Why Red Crossing is important? Because it was the first attack on a civilian population, by either side. Previous to that it had "just" been border skirmishes, but military actions nevertheless. Red Crossing was an undefended human town, which were slaughtered to a man by the Elves. That is why it is important. It blew it all up to full blown war, instead of just "bad relations".
But this doesn't make sense. The enemy army marches through your land and you point to a tiny, insignificant village and say "look! That's the first village they attacked! We must kill them for attacking that village"? This just sounds so artificial to me...
But this doesn't make sense. The enemy army marches through your land and you point to a tiny, insignificant village and say "look! That's the first village they attacked! We must kill them for attacking that village"? This just sounds so artificial to me...
What are you talking about? The Elves didn't attack Red Crossing, then teleport to Montsimmard, sack that, then besiege Val Royaux, before Orlais and the Chantry got to react... Red Crossing was the call to arms for Orlais. It was used as an example of WHY the Dalish had to be fought.
The problem with the Dales is that it's full of Dalish.
And the Emerald Knights were Dalish elves, the Dalish clans took the name to honor their lost home.
That's like saying the Alamarriare are Fereldens because they were the ones who later became Fereldens, like how citizens of the Dales later became Dalish tribespeople. The Dalish as Thedas knows them as in the dragon age are not the same as the citizens of the Dales nation, and using the same word for both is flatly stupid since it just causes miscommunication.
You know what is stupid? Talking about things you don't know.That's like saying the Alamarriare are Fereldens because they were the ones who later became Fereldens, like how citizens of the Dales later became Dalish tribespeople. The Dalish as Thedas knows them as in the dragon age are not the same as the citizens of the Dales nation, and using the same word for both is flatly stupid since it just causes miscommunication.
That's like saying the Alamarriare are Fereldens because they were the ones who later became Fereldens, like how citizens of the Dales later became Dalish tribespeople. The Dalish as Thedas knows them as in the dragon age are not the same as the citizens of the Dales nation, and using the same word for both is flatly stupid since it just causes miscommunication.
No. It would be like calling the Arlathan Elves for Dalish, which would be wrong.
In your comparison, it would be like the Fereldans got evicted from Ferelden, and started calling themselves the Fereldan Clans, and then claiming that calling the people who used to live in Ferelden, weren't Fereldan.
No. It would be like calling the Arlathan Elves for Dalish, which would be wrong.
In your comparison, it would be like the Fereldans got evicted from Ferelden, and started calling themselves the Fereldan Clans, and then claiming that calling the people who used to live in Ferelden, weren't Fereldan.
My point is to call them something else to differentiate them, you can't be so lacking in reasoning and imagination to not be able to think of another simple word for them. Hell, just call them elves if you want. Saying the "elves massacred Red Crossing" is just as correct as "the Dalish" did.
(...)
What are you talking about? The Elves didn't attack Red Crossing, then teleport to Montsimmard, sack that, then besiege Val Royaux, before Orlais and the Chantry got to react... Red Crossing was the call to arms for Orlais. It was used as an example of WHY the Dalish had to be fought.
The timeline is that the war was proclaimed an Exalted March only after Montsimmard had fallen. So, when the Chantry was making said proclamation, they had much bigger things to talk about than one insignificant village.
Unbelievable as it is, I must agree with MWZ here, though
You know.
The transcript of the Orlesian deceleration of war would be helpful here
Yeah. That would be extremely helpful
Or just a detailed description of the beginning stages of the war... unfortunatelly, that would require the writers to work it into sensible whole and - as I mentioned earlier - I do think the REAL reason for the mess we're discussing now is that the idea changed somewhere between DA:O and WoT vol 1... but some people still went with the previous version, making it all even more messy.
My point is to call them something else to differentiate them, you can't be so lacking in reasoning and imagination to not be able to think of another simple word for them. Hell, just call them elves if you want. Saying the "elves massacred Red Crossing" is just as correct as "the Dalish" did.
They ARE Dalish. I am not going to call them something else, just because some might find it hard to differentiate. Context should be more than enough for that.
The timeline is that the war was proclaimed an Exalted March only after Montsimmard had fallen. So, when the Chantry was making said proclamation, they had much bigger things to talk about than one insignificant village.
Unbelievable as it is, I must agree with MWZ here, though
Yes, and what do you think the Chantry did in BETWEEN Red Crossing, and Montsimmard? They condemned the Dalish, but didn't call for an Exalted march yet, because that would've been excessive. There is a period of several months at least, in the time between Red Crossing and Montsimmard. After the Elves sacked Montsimmard, and moved upon Val Royaux, the seat of the Chantry itself, they called for an Exalted March, which only took hold AFTER the Elves had captured Val Royaux.
By the way, am I the only one who doesn't care who was at fault for the war? Whether the elves of the Dales did, or it was the humans, or the humans doing a false flag operation on themselves... It doesn't matter. It turned into a cluster **** for both sides in the end, it doesn't matter how it started. And even if the elves were fully at fault to the worst degree, it doesn't justify how elves have been treated since. Germany attempted an aggressive world takeover, yet they didn't get treated even half as badly as the elves did despite the Dales not even getting close to what Germany did in WW2. Yeah, fictional to real comparison... But still. I don't think the elves deserves what happened to them post-war, even if the anti-elf people in this topic are completely right about all the bad things the Dales did.
Unbelievable as it is, I must agree with MWZ here, though
They ARE Dalish. I am not going to call them something else, just because some might find it hard to differentiate. Context should be more than enough for that.
Seriously. The Dalish call themselves Dalish because they are supposed to represent the elves of the Dales. It's also hilariously ironic how Dalish fans now want to separate them from the group they claim to represent.
Yes, and what do you think the Chantry did in BETWEEN Red Crossing, and Montsimmard? They condemned the Dalish, but didn't call for an Exalted march yet, because that would've been excessive. There is a period of several months at least, in the time between Red Crossing and Montsimmard. After the Elves sacked Montsimmard, and moved upon Val Royaux, the seat of the Chantry itself, they called for an Exalted March, which only took hold AFTER the Elves had captured Val Royaux.
You yourself just stated that the reason for proclaiming the war to be an Exalted March was the invasion - and a damn good reason it would be. But they made an additional effort to link it all to the insignificant village of Red Crossing...
There should be a joke in Thedas involving a Chantry sister, A Chevalier, A Seer and Templar going into a tavern
That's a strange combination. But I bet Rivain has loads of ones beginning with Chantry Sister, Seer, Templar and Qunari.
On what?
Seriously. The Dalish call themselves Dalish because they are supposed to represent the elves of the Dales. It's also hilariously ironic how Dalish fans now want to separate them from the group they claim to represent.
I only care for the confusion aspect, not trying to "separate them". I never denied that the Dalish clans are from the Dales or that they aren't a continuation of the same people. Though they are separate, there's no much similarity between living in actual cities and nations like they used to and living as hunter-gatherers in the woods as they do now.
The most baffling thing about the false flag theory is: why would anyone (as in, the author of that pamphlet) even consider it? The fact he did is one of my reasons do believe that Orlais indeed tried invading first - after all, even not knowing anything you wouldn't be thinking about RC being a false-flag to have a pretext for invasion if no invasion followed. But, as we know - if the invasion took place (and I, for reasons stated before, believe it did) it was promptly beaten back. That's not what happens when a powerful nation pre-prepares its military for an invasion they're going to provide a pretext for themselves...You know that the false flag operation theory makes no sense at all given the course of the war and it's duration.
Presumably if you were going to do some evil **** like that you would want to have military strength at it's optimal level of performance.
Yes it is. Since you OBIVOSULY don't udnerstand what a hassle it is to get into combat equipment, and out of it. You DO NOT get in it, unless you are expecting a fight. The Elves went in, fully expecting a fight. That is the long and short of it.
That's ridiculous. People can try to avoid fights by looking too tough to challenge all the time. And by your logic, no solider or police officer would ever go anywhere while they were armed and in uniform unless they intended to kill somebody.
You yourself just stated that the reason for proclaiming the war to be an Exalted March was the invasion - and a damn good reason it would be. But they made an additional effort to link it all to the insignificant village of Red Crossing...
WHAT?!?!? No I didn't....... I said ORLAIS used Red Crossing as a call to arms for the Orlesians, with the help of the Chantry. But the Chantry didn't call an Exalted march until after Montsimmard had already fallen.
Wait a minute, do you think the Orlesian war effort and the Exalted March is the same thing?
That's ridiculous. People can try to avoid fights by looking too tough to challenge all the time. And by your logic, no solider or police officer would ever go anywhere while they were armed and in uniform unless they intended to kill somebody.
Uhm...... What? Carrying a small firearm is HARDLY the same as walking around in full armor.... Do you see police showing up to petty crimes in full riot gear though? No? How come? Maybe because they don't expect it to be necessary? Do police show up in riot gear ANYWHERE they don't expect it to be necessary?
Do the army deploy their full gear unless they are expecting a fight? No. They don't.
You do not show up, fully armed, and armored, and ready for a fight, IF YOU DO NOT EXPECT TO FIGHT.
Even in those cases, being prepared for a fight if it's necessary it not the same things as going somewhere specifically to start a fight.
I should also mention that the codex doesn't mention how armored they were. In fact the thing it does mention about that is that they had to be able to move "with haste."
I should also mention that the codex doesn't mention how armored they were. In fact the thing it does mention about that is that they had to be able to move "with haste."
Sounds like light rogue armor to me. Not that the type of armor makes a big difference in the "the were ready to fight" debate.
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