807 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That's true. All we know is that the temple was built by humans and inhabited by both humans and ancient elves. It was destroyed by "a terrible presence" that could have been anything, possibly even other humans. 

[Deztyn]

You know, I once thought up how 'I' could exist in the Dragon Age setting- or at least the closest I could imagine, and then translated into a NPC.

 

<Snip the GIGANTIC WALL OF TEXT>

 

<Not going to lie I totally only  half skimmed it>

 

Now, as far a romance goes, if you want to win my heart...

 

 

Nah, that's a secret..

 

Sure. Leave out the good parts.

 

Your backstory makes you sound a bit like Lord Seeker Lambert.

 

Too lazy to search. Has anyone done a "Who would you be in Dragon Age?" thread before? Or recently? If not you should.

 

Also.

 

In Thedas, I would be the Divine.

 

That is all.

[Deztyn]

People do silly things when they lack memory of past actions but Hey 3rd time is the charm

 

Considering the Dalish view on humanity is basically "if we ignore them until they go away, we'll rule the world again someday" I'm not that optimistic.

 

The Lavellans are the only Dalish clan that makes any attempt to understand and work with humans, and yes they do gain a significant amount of political power, but I have a sneaking suspicion that other Dalish would just respond to that by pointing at them and calling them Flat-ears.

 

Plus, you know, they might get massacred.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Clan Lavellan is not the only clan to try to understand humans. They were the only one to send a spy to the Conclave. Many clans with human settlements.

[Wyvernet]

While the Dalish are passing down bitter and biased stories to their youths and threatening human encampments, the Orlesians have been busy spreading lies about the Dalish kidnapping and sacrificing babies, while their elite knights go into the alienage to kill and rape city elves for the fun of it. I don't think either side is really looking for reconciliation.

 

I also don't think the elves were Adrastian as in they believed her to be the bride of a divine Maker. They were probably grateful to her for freeing them from slavery and respectful of her sacrifice, and considered her their saviour but still a mortal woman.

 

The elves literally remember nothing of their culture. There were probably many generations of illiteracy while they were enslaved, and it is possible that these elves were the descendants of the slaves from Arlathan (due to the popularity of the vallaslin). As far as they're aware of, the arrival of the humans was the only cause of their downfall, and only the living ancient elves like Solas and Abelas know otherwise. It was probably very reasonable in their opinion to avoid all contact with humans in an attempt to reclaim their culture.

[dragonflight288]

Why would you want to evict racist missionaries who spend all their time hurling racial slurs at your population? That seems shortsighted to me. The racist missionaries tripping over themselves to slur the Dalish would be a great lightning rod and rallying point. The KKK isn't exactly big in non-white non-American markets.

It seems to me like there would be a lot more motivation to kick out respectful, persuasive and kind missionaries.

Which is why I think it's important to know the attitude of the missionaries who went into the Dales. If they were racists and treated the elves as inferior, it makes sense that the Dalish would kick them out, and Orlais would be all "they reject peaceful missionaries bringing light and truth in the Chantry, savages!"

But if the missionaries were more like Mother Giselle, it changes the picture into the one the Chantry paints.

No sources tell us what happened with the missionaries other than they went and were kicked out.

[In Exile]

Which is why I think it's important to know the attitude of the missionaries who went into the Dales. If they were racists and treated the elves as inferior, it makes sense that the Dalish would kick them out, and Orlais would be all "they reject peaceful missionaries bringing light and truth in the Chantry, savages!"

But if the missionaries were more like Mother Giselle, it changes the picture into the one the Chantry paints.

No sources tell us what happened with the missionaries other than they went and were kicked out.

But I'm coming right back to it. Why would the Dalish kick out a group of missionaries that are a propaganda gift?

[dragonflight288]

But I'm coming right back to it. Why would the Dalish kick out a group of missionaries that are a propaganda gift?

Because said missionaries may do one (or more) of several things.

1. Like Brother Burkel in Orzammar, may have had success and threatened the cultural outlook of rebuilding their ancient culture.

2. The missionaries may have treated the elves as inferior and uneducated rustics and went out of their way to insult them.

3. There could have been a situation similar to the avaar and the circle mages as we see in a codex in Jaws of Hakkon, where the very culture and practices of both sides keep them from seeing where the other is coming from. The circle Mage, for example, was apalled by the Avaar using spirits and worshipping them and allowing themselves to be possessed without fear, and largely without consequence, and the avaar simply couldn't understand why the low landers limited themselves or even why they distrusted spirits to begin with, and wondered why they didn't create a new Maker to worship.

The cultural views may have had similar misunderstandings.

4. The border skirmishes may have colored the views on both sides so the missionaries expected savages to begin with and the Elves expected Tevinter in another skin.

Without more sources on what happened between the elves and the missionaries, there is only speculation.

[TEWR]

I don't know.

I mean it you go by the book, they obviously had no interest in the forest.

 

Right, a civilization that's going to want resources is going to see a lush forest and think "Nah, don't need all that wood or anything."

 

The Tevinters were expanding eastward constantly. As they would build villages, this would mean chopping down trees for the wood to make homes.

[dragonflight288]

Right, a civilization that's going to want resources is going to see a lush forest and think "Nah, don't need all that wood or anything."

The Tevinters were expanding eastward constantly. As they would build villages, this would mean chopping down trees for the wood to make homes.

Or they would be like the early American colonists, as their population grew they needed more land, and the forests would have plenty of resources as you said, and place for settlements to grow.

After the elves in turn were displaced of course. And look! Suddenly you have a cheap labor force in the form of eleven slaves.

[Master Warder Z_]

Right, a civilization that's going to want resources

Oh?

Do you actually have a requisite resource requirement need for the imperium at the point in time?

[Cobra's_back]

Lets see in chronological order:

1. "Elven scouts were sometimes spotted at the edge of the forest of Arlathan by the settlers" -> settlers are at the edge, not in the forest.

2. "The Imperium built a fortress near the border (of the forest?) and stationed soldiers on permanent watch over the forest" -> so they know the forest is not uninhabited.

3. "Several Tevinter settlements in Arlathan vanished into the forest, never to be seen again"  -> tevinters continue to settle in anyway and settlements  get eradicated, because that is what is done to invaders.

4. "The magisters and Thalasian combined their efforts to work a blood-magic spell against the city of Arlathan. The spell sank the elven capital into the ground, destroying it utterly" ->and Tevinter empire expanded, because that is what it did best.

 

 

I got the impression from the game that Solas helped destroy Arlathan by hiding the Gods? The last book The Masked Empire stated that Elves had slaves. It seems to me that the Elves may have wanted to rid the place of humans so that they keep their long lifespan. I also had the impression they were much more advance. 

[myahele]

It's interesting how early Tevinter settlements and explorers into Arlathan Forest end up disappearing the same way modern explorers are disappearing in their voyages in lands beyond Thedas.

[In Exile]

Why do people keep assuming the random location called the Arlathan forest was where the capital of Elvhenan was located?

[Reznore57]

Why do people keep assuming the random location called the Arlathan forest was where the capital of Elvhenan was located?

 

I guess it's because the capital city is supposed to be Arlathan?

People from Thedas also believe Arlathan was there , the Black Fox went to Arlathan Forest looking for the lost city.

Of course he disappeared.

 

 I'm not sure all the elves and the tribes from Tevinter clashed at first .

There's a couple of hints in the lore talking about humans learning magic from the elves.

(I think one codex talking about Seheron has a line about some people "learning at the feet of the elves" , and some Seekers believe blood magic was taugh by elves and not by demons)

 

Also possible the Altus mages (ancient dreamers) were all the product of elves/humans breeding , so far all the dreamers have been elves , half ef or people from Tevinter.

[Deztyn]

Why do people keep assuming the random location called the Arlathan forest was where the capital of Elvhenan was located?

*shrugs*

I like to believe that Arlathan Forest was a precursor the Dales. That it was the elves first attempt to rebuild their society after it was destroyed by their internal wars and Tevinter destroyed it thinking that they were eliminating the true elven empire. I think that works with all existing lore.

[Bowie Hawkins]

If she was killed by humans, yes, those human invaded the Dales.

 

By that logic, the humans invaded the Dales first when they murdered Siona's sister.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

As more people have read the book, more errors have been noticed by people on all sides of this particular debate. (Such as Zevran's former lover being an heir to the Antivan throne, either forgetting she was an elf or how elf-human pairings work).

 

It still strikes me as kind of a stretch the way WoT seems to forget that elves encountered humans thousands of years earlier. Which seems especially unlikely given that Qarinius is actually very close to the Arlathan forest. How could they never have even discovered them for 800 years?

 

It also says that The war with the elves consumed most of the Imperium's resources and that was the reason that they were forced to take drastic measures like sinking the city with blood magic. So the implication was the Tevinter Imperium could barely even defeat something already a ruin?

[In Exile]

I don't think the last part (Tevinter wasting itself to beat a ruin) is at all lore inconsistent. Through Solas we see and hear about the ancient elves. Their society was incredible beyond reason. Even the wildest dreams of the Dalish don't capture it's power and splendor.

[myahele]

I'm guessing from a "lore POV" the new information is based on re-discovered texts that the Chantry/ other organization hid, but were re-discovered by inquisition( (and other organizations) agents, scholars, etc due to the wars? hence, vol.2

 

So does that mean that Vol.2 is a more reliable source of info than Vol. 1. Atleast up until vol 3 releases?

[myahele]

I don't think the last part (Tevinter wasting itself to beat a ruin) is at all lore inconsistent. Through Solas we see and hear about the ancient elves. Their society was incredible beyond reason. Even the wildest dreams of the Dalish don't capture it's power and splendor.

 

I agree, just because the Elves that Tevinter fought were just a shadow of their former selves doesn't mean that they were weak. We know many things in Tevinter (like their magical arts) were based on Elves. 

 

Tevinter as it stands is a weaken state/ shadow of it's former glory, yet it still stands.

 

I do wonder if slavery was common pre-tevinter or did they take that from the elves as well?

[In Exile]

I think it would be a hilarious twist if modern "evil" Tevinter is just a facsimile of the elven empire they beat. I'm sure others would disagree.

[Boost32]

By that logic, the humans invaded the Dales first when they murdered Siona's sister.

Did they? Were are the proof a human killed Siona's sister? Where is the proof they invaded the Dales?
If they did, yes those humans invaded the Dales, still it doesnt have anything to do with Red Cross.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm guessing from a "lore POV" the new information is based on re-discovered texts that the Chantry/ other organization hid, but were re-discovered by inquisition( (and other organizations) agents, scholars, etc due to the wars? hence, vol.2

 

So does that mean that Vol.2 is a more reliable source of info than Vol. 1. Atleast up until vol 3 releases?

 

I'm not sure about that. For example, whoever the author is, he concludes what the Inquisition learned of Abelas must be wrong and that he was so delusional he must have wrongly convinced himself he was immortal and whatever he said must have been wrong.

[leaguer of one]

But I'm coming right back to it. Why would the Dalish kick out a group of missionaries that are a propaganda gift?

Have you met the dalish? They were isolating themselves and ostracizing human from around the 2nd blight.