807 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

Did you guys know that IRL humans have been responsible for 98% of everything bad that's happened to humans? I vote for putting cephalopod's in charge.

[Statare]

True

1. Their constant in-fighting weakened them for invasion and never fully recovered. Isolationism didn't help

2. They were isolationist during the time of the Dales, so that didn't win them fans after the blight ended

3. Zathrian was willing to have the rest of his clan get the werewolf curse due to a grudge 

4. Marethari and Merrill brought about the massacre of their clan due to Pride

5. The events in the masked empire

6. The elf inquisitor's clan ended up getting massacred since they didn't mind their own business

7. Orsino helping a blood mage conduct experiments and also being a bloodmage himself

8. Fiona

 

Corypheus and crew entered the Black City, Maferath betrayed Andraste, Loghain betrayed the Wardens, Howe sucked just in general, that guy in the City Elf Origin was a creep, Meredith snuffed Red Lyrium, Anders blew stuff up and started a war, Samson and his Red Lyrium solution, the Tevinter Imperium washed their cities in blood, the current Tevinter Imperium agitates the Qunari in an endless war, the Orlesians just fought a devastating war killing lots of their own people, the Venatori worshipped a Magister as a God..... Humans suck just as much if you judge them by the actions of individuals.

[Caddius]

Corypheus and crew entered the Black City, Maferath betrayed Andraste, Loghain betrayed the Wardens, Howe sucked just in general, that guy in the City Elf Origin was a creep, Meredith snuffed Red Lyrium, Anders blew stuff up and started a war, Samson and his Red Lyrium solution, the Tevinter Imperium washed their cities in blood, the current Tevinter Imperium agitates the Qunari in an endless war, the Orlesians just fought a devastating war killing lots of their own people, the Venatori worshipped a Magister as a God..... Humans suck just as much if you judge them by the actions of individuals.

And the dwarves' isolationism and obsession with tradition has kept them from replacing their losses against the darkspawn, leads to blood-soaked politics, and a growing criminal underclass that is essential to their economy.

And the Qunari manage to create their very own brand of terrorists, since they obsessively train their soldiers to only fight and kill, providing a fresh crop of Tal'Vashoth to murder villagers and an unending jungle war.

It's how Thedas rolls.  The elves just lost the first round and the humans gained the momentum.

[Master Warder Z_]

Because of being bad neighbors no less.

[SerendipitousElf]

True

1. Their constant in-fighting weakened them for invasion and never fully recovered. Isolationism didn't help

2. They were isolationist during the time of the Dales, so that didn't win them fans after the blight ended

3. Zathrian was willing to have the rest of his clan get the werewolf curse due to a grudge 

4. Marethari and Merrill brought about the massacre of their clan due to Pride

5. The events in the masked empire

6. The elf inquisitor's clan ended up getting massacred since they didn't mind their own business

7. Orsino helping a blood mage conduct experiments and also being a bloodmage himself

8. Fiona

You are not making sense, so what is the elves greatest sin in your opinion? Being isolationists or not minding their own business?

[myahele]

It's pretty telling that the Dwarve's civilization still live on

[Caddius]

It's pretty telling that the Dwarve's civilization still live on

As two cities. With the one we've been exposed to a pale shadow of itself. Which is telling about the stubbornness of the dwarves, with the good (no darkspawn are gonna wipe us out) and the bad (casteless fighting in the army? Harrumph.).

Just like the elves, except that the dwarves are in direr straits thanks to the darkspawn and (with the exception of Bhelen) not negotiating for surfacer aid.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Why is this surprising news? has always been obvious that the elves were idiots that continually f**k things up for themselves, this is the same race that stupidly kept "neutral" during the 2nd blight, they seem to enjoy punishment

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's three now that Orzammar reclaimed Kal'Hirol, but I'd still say dwarves are teetering closer to the edge of extinction than elves are.

[Master Warder Z_]

Why is this surprising news?

It wasn't to me.

[Master Warder Z_]

It's three now that Orzammar reclaimed Kal'Hirol, but I'd still say dwarves are teetering closer to the edge of extinction than elves are.

Which is why I say orgies for everyone

[Caddius]

Which is why I say orgies for everyone

I couldn't help it. 

[andy6915]

It's three now that Orzammar reclaimed Kal'Hirol, but I'd still say dwarves are teetering closer to the edge of extinction than elves are.

 

Elves are no where near that to start with. They've become completely intermixed within with human society and culture, to the point that something that would cause elven extinction will cause human extinction too. Only ways they could be wiped out is if the Thedas version of Hitler shows up and decides elves are his/her jews, and even then it would be unlikely to actually go all the way through. Or... I guess a blight actually winning would cause it too, but every single race in Thedas along with elves will be gone if that happens.

[Statare]

It takes two to tango guys.

 

The excerpt from WOT2 does say the Elves were isolationists, but why do we assume the inevitable, logical solution to people lurking in a forest is their utter slaughter and enslavement? There is a homeless population living in a forest in the city I live in who is commonly associated with various crimes, but never have I heard the solution, "let's round them up, bury their tents, and make them our slaves." The end situation for the Elves in the situation outlined in the OP still required the humans to be equally terrible. Killing and enslaving a race of people is not a passive, reactive action. It requires wanting to be in the space the Elves were. It requires wanting to utterly destroy them. It requires creating a system of race/species based slavery. No matter how terrible the Elves were, and they seem pretty terrible in their own ways, the human response was pretty awful.

[MoonDrummer]

As two cities. With the one we've been exposed to a pale shadow of itself. Which is telling about the stubbornness of the dwarves, with the good (no darkspawn are gonna wipe us out) and the bad (casteless fighting in the army? Harrumph.).

Just like the elves, except that the dwarves are in direr straits thanks to the darkspawn and (with the exception of Bhelen) not negotiating for surfacer aid.

Against a never-ending horde of Darkspawn, two cities doesn't seem so bad.  At least compared to the elves who lost everything against technologically inferior invaders. They even got a second chance, and they ballocked that one up too.  Third time lucky I suppose.   The Castless can join the Legion. or become Golem fuel. 

[Master Warder Z_]

I couldn't help it.

I don't want the dwarves extinct.

Who will mine lyrium?

Mages?

That would be funny but inefficient.

[Laughing_Man]

I don't want the dwarves extinct.

Who will mine lyrium?

Mages?

That would be funny but inefficient.

 

I'm sure the dwarves are touched by your sympathy.

 

But you know what would be even funnier?

 

Using Templars to mine Lyrium. I can just about picture it in my head: A group of Lyrium addicts licking the tainted walls of the deep road in search of their next fix. Then they mine the Lyrium with their teeth, to save the time it requires to potion it.

 

In one fell swoop Thedas got rid of 90% of its drooling fanatics. Now the adults can talk about introducing civilization technology and magic to the land, with Elven help of course, and Thedas can step into a more enlightened age.

[myahele]

As two cities. With the one we've been exposed to a pale shadow of itself. Which is telling about the stubbornness of the dwarves, with the good (no darkspawn are gonna wipe us out) and the bad (casteless fighting in the army? Harrumph.).

Just like the elves, except that the dwarves are in direr straits thanks to the darkspawn and (with the exception of Bhelen) not negotiating for surfacer aid.

 

Atleast they have settlements to call their own despite constantly fighting Darkspawn and potential threat of Orlaisian/Ferelden interest.

 

They're isolationists, but they played politics right long enough to even have positions of power in Tevinter and their own district in the upper parts of Kirkwall

[Master Warder Z_]

Atleast they have settlements to call their own despite constantly fighting Darkspawn and potential threat of Orlaisian/Ferelden interest.

They're isolationists, but they played politics right long enough to even have positions of power in Tevinter and their own district in the upper parts of Kirkwall

They also play politics at the royal level in Orlais.

Their basically allies to anyone who has money.

A good mindset.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm sure the dwarves are touched by your sympathy

They should be.

I value them as useful.

[vertigomez]

Which is why I say orgies for everyone

I am 100% on board with the dwarfgy.

And the dwarves' isolationism and obsession with tradition has kept them from replacing their losses against the darkspawn, leads to blood-soaked politics, and a growing criminal underclass that is essential to their economy.
And the Qunari manage to create their very own brand of terrorists, since they obsessively train their soldiers to only fight and kill, providing a fresh crop of Tal'Vashoth to murder villagers and an unending jungle war.
It's how Thedas rolls.  The elves just lost the first round and the humans gained the momentum.

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when folks remember that it's a story, with nuanced cultures and peoples and complicated, often contradictory histories... and not a competition to see which fictional race gets shat on the most.

[Caddius]

Atleast they have settlements to call their own despite constantly fighting Darkspawn and potential threat of Orlaisian/Ferelden interest.

 

They're isolationists, but they played politics right long enough to even have positions of power in Tevinter and their own district in the upper parts of Kirkwall

Thanks to being one of the only groups that can mine lyrium and has access to lyrium mines. The elves and humans don't have that kind of monopoly.

I just don't see this as a pissing contest between who screwed themselves over more between the races of Thedas. It's Thedas. If they're not busy bringing about their own destruction, it's because they're messing with the other guy. 

[Master Warder Z_]

I am 100% on board with the dwarfgy.

Yes!

[Caddius]

Yes!

It was a nice surprise in Origins to see how one of the stereotypes about dwarves was how sexual they all were.  I guess you'd have to be, if you're not an especially fertile race and you're dealing with darkspawn all the time, in addition to all the normal 'we have lava' accidents.

[Master Warder Z_]

Pity red lyrium is degenerating.

It can actually be grown in massive quantities on the surface by humans.