I agree, cant see how some people say both are at fault or dont see the elves as a invaders.
I wouldn't be too surprised if Dalish Elfs with Valaslin end up being mind controlled by one of their gods in a future DA game
At first, Orlais was merely defending itself. Then, it became ethnic cleansing.
But let us not fool ourselves, the elves would have done worse. They wouldn't even offer Alienages because of their belief in the quickening.
I doubt it, that would have caused the other human nations to jump in. I do wonder what the Elves wanted to gain out of the war, the smash and grab strategy makes me think they would have wanted to just knock Orlais out before it could fully mobilise, probably get some war reparations, slight territorial gains and go home smug. Or possibly they would try splitting Orlais up into loads of minor states.
I just don't think annexing Orlais was viable.
At first, Orlais was merely defending itself. Then, it became ethnic cleansing.
But let us not fool ourselves, the elves would have done worse. They wouldn't even offer Alienages because of their belief in the quickening.
Why? The premise of the quickening is that contact with humans made the elves have the same lifespan as them. That already happened. More contact with humans can't make it worse. Ameridan suggests that the reason for the antipathy the Dales had for Orlais was because they thought Drakon was no better than the Imperium. And despite his heroism in the Second Blight, he has his share of faults. His armies are responsible for the deaths of thousands of pacifist Andrastian heretics.
He said both sides were at fault at Red Crossing, cant see why.
It wasn't both sides at fault, the elves invaded Orlais's territory & murdered its civilians, which caused the war
The "attack" on Red Crossing wasn't an attack at all. The elves weren't part of an armed invasion. An elf killed a human woman due to a misunderstanding. Then the human villagers then attacked the elven group who did so and lost. Then more soldiers came and killed her elven lover who wasn't party to any of it. If anything I think "That Death of Eladrin" suggests it was Orlesians that were the first ones who had the intent to start actual war on their mind. That doesn't necessarily conflict with the fact that they were losing the war first.
I should also point out the first person killed in that story was an innocent elf the humans killed for "wandering too close."
I doubt it, that would have caused the other human nations to jump in. I do wonder what the Elves wanted to gain out of the war, the smash and grab strategy makes me think they would have wanted to just knock Orlais out before it could fully mobilise, probably get some war reparations, slight territorial gains and go home smug. Or possibly they would try splitting Orlais up into loads of minor states.
I just don't think annexing Orlais was viable.
The elves long term objectives during the war weren't clear, but so far as I know there is no record of them destroying Montsimard after capturing it like Orlais did to Halamshiral. Orlais reduced it to an inhabited ruin for centuries.
The first person who was killed was a innocent human woman, Siona's sister death is not about Red cross, and the elves didnt even had proof she was killed by humans.The "attack" on Red Crossing wasn't an attack at all. The elves weren't part of an armed invasion. An elf killed a human woman due to a misunderstanding. Then the human villagers then attacked the elven group who did so and lost. Then more soldiers came and killed her elven lover who wasn't party to any of it. If anything I think "That Death of Eladrin" suggests it was Orlesians that were the first ones who had the intent to start actual war on their mind. That doesn't necessarily conflict with the fact that they were losing the war first.
I should also point out the first person killed in that story was an innocent elf the humans killed for "wandering too close."
The first person who was killed was a innocent human woman, Siona's sister death is not about Red cross, and the elves didnt even had proof she was killed by humans.
They were protection their home from foreign invaders, and after that they retornes and destroyed Red Crossing.
No first person killed was an innocent elf. And the innocent human woman was killed in a misunderstanding. So the elves killing an innocent human by accident counts as the "true" reason for the start of the war but the humans killing an innocent elf on purpose is somehow arbitrarily considered irrelevant? Do only human lives matter? You seem to believe everything else about that codex entry, but the one thing you decide to declare unreliable is the part that would make the humans seem less like passive victims?
The elves weren't invading. Do you have a source for the claim that Red Crossing was later destroyed? I'm pretty sure that whole codex was describing the supposed raid on Red Crossing which he Chantry later embellished with false claims about blood magic sacrifice.
I think we can all agree that the real problem is that the elves refuse to go extinct... their constant existing really gets in the way of all that humanity.
I think we can all agree that the real problem is that the elves refuse to go extinct... their constant existing really gets in the way of all that humanity.
Should just give them all to the anvil of the void, then stick them on the darkspawn. They'd finally be useful.
That's still more on topic than most elf threads,
Siona's sister was killed before the event of Red Crossing, her death played no part at those event, and the elves didnt even had proof it was a human who killed her.No first person killed was an innocent elf. And the innocent human woman was killed in a misunderstanding. So the elves killing an innocent human by accident counts as the "true" reason for the start of the war but the humans killing an innocent elf on purpose is somehow arbitrarily considered irrelevant? Do only human lives matter? You seem to believe everything else about that codex entry, but the one thing you decide to declare unreliable is the part that would make the humans seem less like passive victims?
The elves weren't invading. Do you have a source for the claim that Red Crossing was later destroyed? I'm pretty sure that whole codex was describing the supposed raid on Red Crossing which he Chantry later embellished with false claims about blood magic sacrifice.
Of course she's relevant. She's the sister of the elf who killed Adalene. But even if she wasn't related to the events at Red Crossing, so what? She was an innocent elf killed by humans. That makes the the ones who shed first blood. The codex says the Chantry killed her. If you believe everything else, why doubt that part?
She also was killed because she ran at Siona screaming. Presumably the implication being that they thought she was attacking them.
Red Crossing is a backwater village, why would the elven armies have needed to go through it at all?
The codex says a human kill her and they found their body, only that, they dont even know who killed her.Of course she's relevant. She's the sister of the elf who killed Adalene. But even if she wasn't related to the events at Red Crossing, so what? She was an innocent elf killed by humans. That makes the the ones who shed first blood. The codex says the Chantry killed her. If you believe everything else, why doubt that part?
She also was killed because she ran at Siona screaming. Presumably the implication being that they thought she was attacking them.
Red Crossing is a backwater village, why would the elven armies have needed to go through it at all?
lol y u so cray elves
lol y u so cray elves
Arguments about the Dales/Orlais war is always entertaining
Yo steel, you tend to be knowledgeable.
Is there a source on the assertion Drakon killed pacifist Andrastians without cause?
I recall an entry from the Fallow Mire about crazy cultists that got wiped out
I recall an entry from the Fallow Mire about crazy cultists that got wiped out
It wasn't both sides at fault, the elves invaded Orlais's territory & murdered its civilians, which caused the war
If we're going to cite the red-crossing documents, you should at least include the bit where the innocent Orlesian civilians had murdered one of the Emerald Knights' sister just before the incident. Or that those same documents cite constant border skirmishes with humans.
Red crossing was a big derp up, but its not like that derp up happened in a vacuum.
Cant say it's surprising. In DAI there was a growing cult that worshiped a fade tear. Just imagine if they continued to grow
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