98 réponses à ce sujet

[RighteousRage]

The reason you shouldn't use frictionless materials is because if you just put 2 rail extensions VII into your guns then you can kill everything on the screen before your gun overheats anyway, especially if you're using a pistol or assault rifle and teammates with warp. The result is that fights take about 0.5 seconds rather than 10, even on insanity.

[Frotality]

will everyone please stop assuming that anyone who liked the old system wants the exact same broken ME1 version? you all act like because it was flawed there was no way it could be fixed, which is what we believe they should have done. i find the ammo system to be functionally imbalanced favoring automatic weapons; it doesnt mean i think bioware needs to go and reinvent the wheel for ME3. both have flaws, both are liked more by some than others, both can be fixed, but only one of those was unique and meshed with the sci-fi setting they set up.

[Darth Drago]

-To me it would have made more sense that a thermal clip would have been a upgrade you could research or maybe buy from a store that sells weapons and upgrades. A perfect location would be the C-Sec Requisitions Officer. This would be a full upgrade system where each upgrade would add more to the weapon its added to. Each upgrade for thermal clips would give you a certain added bonus to your shooting time before your gun overheated. Maybe in increments of 20% . In this way its more of an actual technological step forward and its only available to certain groups like the military, C-Sec or Cerberus.
 
To find thermal clips just laying around in a level is in bad creative taste to me, especially inside the final battle level. Why would they have them in the first place their weapons aren’t based on Geth or Alliance ones? Or the crew of Jacob’s father’s ship? How would they even get them being marooned on a planet for the last 10 years? The distribution of these thermal clip using weapons on a galactic scale was obviously never considered as well as the development time it would to even make your first prototype weapon that used them. Two years from development, prototype testing, manufacturing and distribution is so believable, right? Especially the distribution on the galactic scale.

BioWare just threw out the old lore/history of the first game to cater to the 1st/3rd person shooter audience.

They couldn’t even get their facts right in the game. Are they thermal clips or ammo? If their thermal clips then why do I have an armor upgrade called Off-Hand Ammo Pack. It clearly states “increases spare ammo capacity by 10%”.

[Lopake]

afghan

[thompsonaf]

[Sidac]

RighteousRage wrote...

Also, if you seriously used frictionless materials then you had to be out of your mind

Frictionless Materials + Spectre Sniper Rifle / Assault Rifle + High Explosive Rounds = WIN!

Modifié par Sidac, 16 février 2010 - 06:25 .

[Soruyao]

http://rhue.blogspot...mmo-part-1.html



There is a very strong lore argument (using MATH!) for how ammo as it exists in ME2 right now.



There are some small inconsistencies in the lore relating especially to jacob's loyalty mission, but other than that, it isn't a very large stretch to believe that weapons could change from their ME1 versions to the ME2 versions within two years, especially considering how easily omni-tools can create objects through simple materials.

[itsdynamitebaby]

Perhaps combine the two? Wait for a slow cooldown or slap a thermal clip and be ready to fire in 2 secs. For my two cents I liked the thermal clips until insanity mode where a charging boss/krogan/harbinger would get too close and negate my cover and render my weapons almost useless because I couldn't maintain a steady stream of fire. A few extra shots would definitely limit the frustration.

[SteelEagleShane]

I liked the customability of the weapons before, but the thermal clip system is fine. What wouldave worked is thermal clips as blank slatesof ammunition and the weapons being customizable as in ME1. That could impact damage, fire rate, acuay, ammo type, etc. and give me something to spend money on.

[JedTed]

Darth Drago wrote...

They couldn’t even get their facts right in the game. Are they thermal clips or ammo? If their thermal clips then why do I have an armor upgrade called Off-Hand Ammo Pack. It clearly states “increases spare ammo capacity by 10%”.

I think that's just simplifying it for the benifit of the player.  When they say "increases ammo capacity" they likely mean thermal clips.  If you got a problem with that or how it fits in the lore then take it up with Bioware.

Personally i like the new system and the way it's explained in the codex makes sense.  One thing i do wish they had is an auto targeting option for all weapons, i think that would appease the hardcore RPG crowd while still retaining the 3rd-person shooter elements for everyone else.

[JedTed]

itsdynamitebaby wrote...

Perhaps combine the two? Wait for a slow cooldown or slap a thermal clip and be ready to fire in 2 secs. For my two cents I liked the thermal clips until insanity mode where a charging boss/krogan/harbinger would get too close and negate my cover and render my weapons almost useless because I couldn't maintain a steady stream of fire. A few extra shots would definitely limit the frustration.

That's what i thought it would be like originally but i geuss they changed that mid development.

One suggestion i had was have just the heavy pistol use the old overheat system while the rest of the guns use thermal clips.  Lots of shooters have unlimited firing pistols for situations when your main gun runs out so why not use it here?

[Soruyao]

JedTed wrote...

itsdynamitebaby wrote...

Perhaps combine the two? Wait for a slow cooldown or slap a thermal clip and be ready to fire in 2 secs. For my two cents I liked the thermal clips until insanity mode where a charging boss/krogan/harbinger would get too close and negate my cover and render my weapons almost useless because I couldn't maintain a steady stream of fire. A few extra shots would definitely limit the frustration.

That's what i thought it would be like originally but i geuss they changed that mid development.

One suggestion i had was have just the heavy pistol use the old overheat system while the rest of the guns use thermal clips.  Lots of shooters have unlimited firing pistols for situations when your main gun runs out so why not use it here?

Is there a possiblity they tried that method and realized that they couldn't make it work in a way that was fun and abandoned it for a system that actually did work well?

I will agree that having a weapon that never runs out of ammo would be fine, but I would suggest the SMG for this, since that thing has nearly unlimited ammo anyway.   The SMG (and the AR) are weapons I have literally never run out of ammo for.

Modifié par Soruyao, 16 février 2010 - 07:07 .

[JedTed]

Soruyao wrote...

I will agree that having a weapon that never runs out of ammo would be fine, but I would suggest the SMG for this, since that thing has nearly unlimited ammo anyway.   The SMG (and the AR) are weapons I have literally never run out of ammo for.

Yeah but how often do you use the heavy pistol compared to the AR or SMG?  Pistols a grenerally the "fallback" weapons for when you eventually run out of AR ammo you got something to defend yourself.

[Darth Drago]

JedTed wrote...

Soruyao wrote...

I will agree that having a weapon that never runs out of ammo would be fine, but I would suggest the SMG for this, since that thing has nearly unlimited ammo anyway.   The SMG (and the AR) are weapons I have literally never run out of ammo for.

Yeah but how often do you use the heavy pistol compared to the AR or SMG?  Pistols a grenerally the "fallback" weapons for when you eventually run out of AR ammo you got something to defend yourself.

Once upon a time a pistol was the only weapon you could use for some classes. Now you get to a certain point and suddenly I get to choose a sniper rifle or assault rifle to specialize in, assuming I don’t give the shotgun to Grunt.

[baller7345]

I look at it as a way to balance guns. In the first game a pistol with infinite marksman was more or less unfair due to the massive amounts of damage you could produce without out every stopping. Now even the most powerful guns can't deal death indefinitely therefore it keeps them balanced when compared to other classes powers. Honestly if the widow had unlimited ammo the infiltrator/soldier who takes it would have very few worries as long as they line up their head shots correctly.



While the ammo system may be annoying to some I think it helps balance combat oriented classes to those who get by without gunfire.

[baller7345]

Darth Drago wrote...

JedTed wrote...

Soruyao wrote...

I will agree that having a weapon that never runs out of ammo would be fine, but I would suggest the SMG for this, since that thing has nearly unlimited ammo anyway.   The SMG (and the AR) are weapons I have literally never run out of ammo for.

Yeah but how often do you use the heavy pistol compared to the AR or SMG?  Pistols a grenerally the "fallback" weapons for when you eventually run out of AR ammo you got something to defend yourself.

Once upon a time a pistol was the only weapon you could use for some classes. Now you get to a certain point and suddenly I get to choose a sniper rifle or assault rifle to specialize in, assuming I don’t give the shotgun to Grunt.

In your second and every subsequent playthough you had the ability of giving any class any other weapon you wanted.  Alternatively you could just use the Geth Pulse Rifle X for its high accuracy even if you didn't have training in it.

[BellaStrega]

The thing that bothers me is that every weapon uses exactly the same ejectable heat sinks, but the amount of shots each weapon can fire before ejecting the heat sink maps uncannily well to how many shots that weapon might have if it used actual bullets. Why does the Carnifex only fire six shots before you have to reload, but the SMG or AR can fire dozens? Does this even make sense? Or that while heat sinks are usable in all weapons, each weapon has its own independent ammo reserve. If you run through all available ammo for your sniper rifle, your assault rifle will still be full.



The heat sink explanation is a cover for using a standard ammo system. The only variation from, say, Doom, is that you only have to pick up one ammo type - well, two. One for heavy weapons and one for everything else.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

It's a gameplay element. I doubt it's supposed to make much sense.

A more "realistic" system would likely frustrate gamers, since heavy weapons would all need their own ammo for obvious reasons like how a Cain can't shoot a cryo blast and the other standard weapons would also require as such unless they're all magically chambered for the same cartridge, which is actually more counter-realistic since only SMGs and heavy pistols could use the same catridge and make sense. Rifles, Snipers and Shotguns (especially shotguns) have their own catridges, which explains their firepower difference.

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 16 février 2010 - 09:22 .

[Soruyao]

I actually use the heavy pistols quite a lot. They don't call the carnifex a hand cannon for no reason. That thing hits almost as hard as a sniper rifle. It's an amazing weapon against armor.



It's powerful but the danger is that it runs out of ammo. This is why I would reccomend the SMG as the infinite ammo weapon, if we were to make one, since that's the one weapon I literally have never run out of ammo with.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

The reason the Carniflex is good against armour is because it was tailored that way. SMGs are tailored against shields and barriers, and pistols are for everything else. It's either that or have all the weapons differ only by amount of damage which would simply tempt players to find the one favourable gun and stick with it all the way.

[Inarai]

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

It's a gameplay element. I doubt it's supposed to make much sense.

A more "realistic" system would likely frustrate gamers, since heavy weapons would all need their own ammo for obvious reasons like how a Cain can't shoot a cryo blast and the other standard weapons would also require as such unless they're all magically chambered for the same cartridge, which is actually more counter-realistic since only SMGs and heavy pistols could use the same catridge and make sense. Rifles, Snipers and Shotguns (especially shotguns) have their own catridges, which explains their firepower difference.

They don't use cartridges.  The thermal clip system isn't how the gun gets rounds to fire, but how they deal with the intense heat these kinds of weapons generate.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Precisely.

Which is why I think some of the people who hate the system simply hate it because gameplay-wise, the thermal clips are ammo, completely ignoring that it's a gameplay element that simply has a fancy name based on heat sinks. It's not supposed to make realistic sense (which is quite obvious since thermal clips just absorb the heat, they don't provide the physical ammunition to be fired out)

[MaaZeus]

I am for the balanced version of the two. If you have thermalclips, your gun shoots faster and higher rate of fire. Thats why thermalclips were invented according to lore. But when you run out, you should still be able to fire, but with lower ROF and less power so the gun wouldnt overheat. Seems balanced to me this way.

[Braag]

If you seriously think the weapons and overall combat in ME1 was better than ME2 then you're obviously insane...

[Deflagratio]

I like the mechanic, it adds actual intensity to the combat instead of just rubber-banding down the fire button and leaving the console on. The lore aspect could have been done much better.

I mean really, wouldn't an element-zero explanation have made more sense? Something along the lines of how in order to maintain the integrity of the delicate components used for targeting and calculating the amount of mass to shave off for a slug, from static discharge? It's slightly less retarded than magic heat-absorbing cylinders. As the element zero core is used in the weapon, it builds charge, "Reloading" is manually discharging the static into a well insulated sink that can then be ejected away from the weapon and thus away from sensitive electrical components or even and unwary and ungrounded soldier.

Think about the details, Small-arms Mass Accelerators do use Element Zero cores (Tiny ones) which are passing negative current to reduce the mass of the slug in order to allow higher velocities. Much like how a drive core builds charge (all relative) faster for larger vessels (Being more mass) weapons firing higher energy yield weapons would generate more charge in less time than something sending less potential energy down range per shot, and thus less "Ammo" per sink. It writes itself, and lets anyone short of a Ph.D in theoritical physics bask in lore-sense.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 16 février 2010 - 11:13 .