92 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

That's not the argument. The argument is that (1) Andraste is divine; (2) because Andraste is divine, things surrounding her take on a divine quality; (3) Andraste sang songs of personal meaning to her (or others, or situations in her life); which (4) acquire divine significance, because they originate with Andraste. Put differently, the songs aren't religious because of their content, but because Andraste sang them. If she sang Over the Rainbow, it would become religious because she sang it. 

 

Well, no. And just because things surround a divine person doesn't make it holy. If Andraste lays in the grass it doesn't make the grass holy. If Jesus sings Enter Sandman it doesn't become a religious song.

[In Exile]

Well, no. And just because things surround a divine person doesn't make it holy. If Andraste lays in the grass it doesn't make the grass holy. If Jesus sings Enter Sandman it doesn't become a religious song.

But people consider the spear Jesus got stabbed with holy, and the cross he was nailed too holy, don't they?

[Hellion Rex]

But people consider the spear Jesus got stabbed with holy, and the cross he was nailed too holy, don't they?

Not to mention his burial cloth, the cup that he drank from, etc.

[Steelcan]

But people consider the spear Jesus got stabbed with holy, and the cross he was nailed too holy, don't they?

thats a matter of significant divergence in Christianity

 

Catholics, Ethiopian Christians, Lutherans, occasionally Anglicans, and Eastern Eastern Orthodox churches (ignoring the Iconoclast waves) tend to put greater emphasis on relics.  Most protestant denominations consider relics little better than idolatry.

[In Exile]

So then it's entirely possible Andrastians are more in the former class rather than the latter?

[Korva]

Makes me wonder how Andrastians view that sort of thing. The only "relic" we know about -- as far as I'm aware, as someone who doesn't care for franchise fiction and other tie-ins -- are the Sacred Ashes. Andrastian art does show her on the pyre a lot (*) but the pyre itself doesn't seem to have any "holy" connotations or special significance -- the Sword of Mercy that ended her suffering does.

 

(*) And that sure freaked me out when I tried the Andrastian throne in Skyhold. "Oh, this doesn't look half bad, much better than that flimsy chair with the silly swords -- HOLY SH*T what is that, no, abort, get that thing out of my fortress!"

[Steelcan]

So then it's entirely possible Andrastians are more in the former class rather than the latter?

well given the importance of things like the Urn of Sacred Ashes as well as Chantries being fairly decorated and artistic, I'd put them near Catholics with the Black Divine serving as the Eastern Orthodox counter part

[Gilli]

(*) And that sure freaked me out when I tried the Andrastian throne in Skyhold. "Oh, this doesn't look half bad, much better than that flimsy chair with the silly swords -- HOLY SH*T what is that, no, abort, get that thing out of my fortress!"

 

That's one reason why I prefer the (Classical) Fereldan Throne 

[Lady Artifice]

So then it's entirely possible Andrastians are more in the former class rather than the latter?

Fingerbones.

It's more than possible, I thought it was very established that anything associated with the chantry can become sacred in its way.

[Sifr]

Well, no. And just because things surround a divine person doesn't make it holy. If Andraste lays in the grass it doesn't make the grass holy. If Jesus sings Enter Sandman it doesn't become a religious song.

 

Course not, Jesus would sing it because it's a religious song for some people.

 

And because he was secretly metal.

 

 

Makes me wonder how Andrastians view that sort of thing. The only "relic" we know about -- as far as I'm aware, as someone who doesn't care for franchise fiction and other tie-ins -- are the Sacred Ashes. Andrastian art does show her on the pyre a lot (*) but the pyre itself doesn't seem to have any "holy" connotations or special significance -- the Sword of Mercy that ended her suffering does.

 

There's also the Tears of Andraste, as well as supposedly a stone that marks her birthplace in Denerim (and Jader). And fingerbones of various Chantry related people are often sold by peddlers as holy relics, as noted above.

[Monica21]

Course not, Jesus would sing it because it's a religious song for some people.

 

And because he was secretly metal.

 

 

This guy? This guy totally sings Enter Sandman.

 

[Master Warder Z_]

I see it

[Deztyn]

Makes me wonder how Andrastians view that sort of thing. The only "relic" we know about -- as far as I'm aware, as someone who doesn't care for franchise fiction and other tie-ins -- are the Sacred Ashes. Andrastian art does show her on the pyre a lot (*) but the pyre itself doesn't seem to have any "holy" connotations or special significance -- the Sword of Mercy that ended her suffering does.

 

(*) And that sure freaked me out when I tried the Andrastian throne in Skyhold. "Oh, this doesn't look half bad, much better than that flimsy chair with the silly swords -- HOLY SH*T what is that, no, abort, get that thing out of my fortress!"

 

The eternal flame that is kept burning in every chantry represents Andraste's pyre. Fire is also associated with purity in the Andrastian faith. They view her death on the pyre as a form of cleansing of her sins. It's also why Andrastians burn their dead everywhere but Nevarra. (Practically heathens those people.)

[BSpud]

I thought it was clearly supposed to the Thedas version of Amazing Grace.

[Beren Von Ostwick]

Hi guys,

 

Does any body know, if The Dawn will Come song has an actual in game lore significance?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

So I realize this has been dead for a few days now, but I stumbled across something in DAO that might shed some light on the origins (ha, origins... DAO... meh, nevermind) of the song.  Possibly.

 

Accepting that....

• Chanter boards are operated by chanters
• Chanters never, ever, except when tricked by jerk Wardens into saying "What?", say anything that is not content from The Chant of Light

Chanter Farrah of the Redcliffe chanter board spouts this verse from The Chant of Light.  Now, I realize she does not actually say "The Dawn Will Come" so sure, headcanon still open short of absolute proof, but personally I am convinced that this shows the inspiration for The Dawn Will Come clearly comes directly from The Chant of Light.

 

"The deep dark before dawn's first light seems eternal.  But know that the sun always rises."   >>>  "The Dawn Will Come."

 

 

[Magdalena11]

Hymns aren't only sung in religious settings, and sometimes are about emotion, not specific faith.  Solas refers in-game to soldiers using a battle hymn to keep formation, and an anthem can be a song that's played when the flag is raised or one to hype the crowd at a rock concert.  I remember a few hymns from church that did not have any religious words, names, or "divine" meaning, other than the general mood of hope or peace they were meant to convey.  Cat Stevens' Morning Has Broken sounds really different indeed with full choir and organic accompanyment.  I did go to a pretty liberal Sunday School, though.  It's totally OK to disagree with the chantry, but even Solas notes the value of the message.  He doesn't take part, and might not even know the words, but he respects the good it (the song) does.

[Ariella]

Hymns aren't only sung in religious settings, and sometimes are about emotion, not specific faith.  Solas refers in-game to soldiers using a battle hymn to keep formation, and an anthem can be a song that's played when the flag is raised or one to hype the crowd at a rock concert.  I remember a few hymns from church that did not have any religious words, names, or "divine" meaning, other than the general mood of hope or peace they were meant to convey.  Cat Stevens' Morning Has Broken sounds really different indeed with full choir and organic accompanyment.  I did go to a pretty liberal Sunday School, though.  It's totally OK to disagree with the chantry, but even Solas notes the value of the message.  He doesn't take part, and might not even know the words, but he respects the good it (the song) does.

 

Actually Morning Has Broken is a Christian hymn and wasn't written by Cat Stevens, though his version is the most famous.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ning_Has_Broken

[Ashagar]

The dawn will come migh or may not be a hymn but even if it wasn't doesn't mean it isn't a relgious song given the large numbers of tradional relgious songs that aren't hymns or that it wasn't commonly sung in relgious settings, you would be surpised at the sort of songs and tales that were told and sung in medival church and monestary communities.