175 réponses à ce sujet

[Display Name Owner]

I find them moving some people to Andromeda pretty plausible in the context of the MEverse. Or of a post-Reaper one anyway, if this was supposed to have been launched as a failsafe during the Reaper shenanigans then that is silly, but I'm not getting any indication whatsoever that that's actually the case.

 

Anyway, the Protheans developed long-term stasis tech, so that could explain how the current races got their hands on it, and that could explain how they got a ship full of live people to Andromeda with supplies. It could be a massive ship that spent like 200 years getting there.

 

Of course there's the why, and yeah, beyond "well, we wrote a huge mess all over the Milky Way" there's no real reason. I guess if I really wanted to make it work I could reason that the species are aware that if they colonise too much of the MW they might leave younger races without a chance to develop on their own terms, so it's a conservation issue. Even then that doesn't cover why they'd want to go and run their grubby hands all over someone else's Galaxy.

 

Whatevs. I'm just willing to give it a chance a) because tbh I don't want to have to spend months picking holes in this series any more and b ) because plenty about MENext sounds cool.

[Drone223]

You failed reading what I wrote. True, the crucible projet was a huge strain in galaxy's economy, BUT the crucible couldn't be built by itself. It must have been built in a space shipyard (or something similar) and that is added as well to the cost of the project. There are numbers of ways of conceiling costs and resources from their true purposes and that could be seen even today. You could build a "glorified shipyard" that could work as an ark ship as a plan B.

 

In fact, military in the world do that all the time. If a country says "oohh we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on these few brand new F-16", do you really think those few F-16 costed that? Sure, they spent that much money, but not only on those F-16, but on other stuff as well that they "masked" under that purchase and only the top guys at the military force knows exactly what was bought and how much of it.

 

Again, remember guys: this is war we're talking about and Shepard may have been fed with a lot of intel, but clearly not all of it, as he/she wasn't a really top officer (like a commander in chief or a really high admiral).

As I bought up before all of the builders, engineers, scientist etc. in the whole galaxy are all beings sent to the crucible, there won't be enough people to build an ark. Not to mention keeping such a huge scale project secret is easier said than done the fact that rumor's of existence and true nature are spreading is proof that people will learn of its existence eventually an ark will fear no better considering there are people such as the shadow broker, the STG and Cerberus who excel at gathering information. Such a project would involve hundreds of thousands of personal and lots of resources keeping it a secret is not as easy as you think it is especially with something like the crucible being built and the war with the reapers.

 

Small scale projects with a few dozen people are easier to keep secret because there's going to be a handful of people involved and less resources required.

[The Twilight God]

Firstly, it's not supposed to be a "true sequel." They're not continuing the story of Shepard.  Secondly, any of the endings are a viable jumping off point for a new game.  Thirdly, the Leviathans would be a poor enemy considering their opponents already know their weakness.

It not being a true sequel is part of the problem. And it doesn't require Shepard to be a true sequel. I expected it to take place far into the future either way. Given the level of destruction in the wake of the Reaper War history could be fuzzy But a "true sequel" would at least entail the same setting. "ME4" is like if the next Dragon age took place in Middle Earth.

And ,no, there is no viable ending other than Destroy if you want storytelling consistency and not a pile of nonsense that flies in the face of everything established in the franchise. Control would result in anther chain of Cycles. Synthesis would result in a total Leviathan takeover with no hope of resistance. Refuse would erase all the iconic races and places. It would just be ME1-3 all over again. To jump off from either of those last 3 would be horrible storytelling that blatantly ignores the ME universe lore.

As for your third comment, the Leviathans were set up to be a future foe in the DLC. They are the only thing on par with the Reapers in terms of a threat, but different in their approach and goals. Don't get me wrong, there can be sequel trilogies with lesser threats like traditional war (internally or from afar) and whatnot, but the Leviathans need to make an appearance at some point.

By the way, what are the weaknesses of the Leviathans that everyone already knows?

[The Twilight God]

No. And why do you say "Paragon Destroy"? Morality doesn't affect this ending. Control is the only ending affected by your dominant morality.

Also, they already confirmed that there will be no canon ending.

"Paragon Destroy" as in iconic races surviving and us being able to see how they've changed over the centuries. Like a civil Krogan society. How Quarians have changed culturally. How the Geth have developed post-individuality. I admit I wasn't clear about that.

[Kabooooom]

An ark ship would be even harder to keep secret since it would involve even more personnel and resources to crack the problems compared to the Crucible which information was practically spoonfed to us.

Not to mention that the Crucible itself was already threatening to collapse the galaxy's infrastructure. If they were suddenly also working on an intergalactic vessel, they would doom the galaxy even if we won against the Reapers.

Lol, but space is big. Literally, mindblowingly enormous. You dont even really have to keep an ark project secret. What you have to keep secret is the exact destination, and the project itself merely long enough to launch it.

[Iakus]

Lol, but space is big. Literally, mindblowingly enormous. You dont even really have to keep an ark project secret. What you have to keep secret is the exact destination, and the project itself merely long enough to launch it.

You also need the personnel to design the ships (and the engines, which are far beyond anything the galaxy has ever seen)  The manpower to build what would essentially be an entire fleet of dreadnoughts (if not bigger)

 

Then comes selecting who gets a golden ticket to visit the new galaxy. And bringing them over.

[Kabooooom]

You also need the personnel to design the ships (and the engines, which are far beyond anything the galaxy has ever seen) The manpower to build what would essentially be an entire fleet of dreadnoughts (if not bigger)

Then comes selecting who gets a golden ticket to visit the new galaxy. And bringing them over.

Sure, but none of that necessarily has to be kept secret. Only the destination.

And this is all probably a moot point anyways, because I suspect that they will just use a wormhole to get to Andromeda.

Which is sort of a shame, because the engineering hurdles of a true intergalactic ark project would be far more interesting from a lore standpoint.

[AlanC9]

You also need the personnel to design the ships (and the engines, which are far beyond anything the galaxy has ever seen)  The manpower to build what would essentially be an entire fleet of dreadnoughts (if not bigger)

Of course, those assumptions are going to turn out to not be true.

[Iakus]

Of course, those assumptions are going to turn out to not be true.

Unless TIM loaned Hackett the keys to the Star Forge, I'm not sure how "Ark Theory" could possibly work.

 

Or are we going with "Wormholes!" theory?

[Kabooooom]

Unless TIM loaned Hackett the keys to the Star Forge, I'm not sure how "Ark Theory" could possibly work.

Or are we going with "Wormholes!" theory?

It's still the same thing. The galaxy builds an ark to escape the Reapers either way. There's really no difference. Ark theory was never about the means, it was about the overall concept. Just as moving the setting to Andromeda was SUPER predictable, so to is the ark.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's still the same thing. The galaxy builds an ark to escape the Reapers either way. There's really no difference. Ark theory was never about the means, it was about the overall concept. Just as moving the setting to Andromeda was SUPER predictable, so to is the ark.

Except if it is a wormhole, you don't need an ark. A fleet of smaller ships works too. The leak suggests smaller ships rather than a giant ark. 

[Kabooooom]

Except if it is a wormhole, you don't need an ark. A fleet of smaller ships works too. The leak suggests smaller ships rather than a giant ark.

Splitting hairs, pretty much. You take a bunch of ships, load them up with people, animals, seeds. What you have is a bunch of arks instead of one ark.

[Han Shot First]

They might not have even needed to build new ships.

 

They could have retrofitted cargo freighters and/or brought some mothballed cruisers or dreadnoughts out of retirement. Some sort of massive construction project may have been entirely unnecessary. 

[Kabooooom]

They might not have even needed to build new ships.

They could have retrofitted cargo freighters and/or brought some mothballed cruisers or dreadnoughts out of retirement. Some sort of massive construction project may have been entirely unnecessary.

Agreed. That said, in the Andromeda trailer, on the screen where he is selecting a new destination, in the bottom right hand corner is a destination labeled "ARK" (it definitely says that, I checked with high resolution). My guess is they deliberately put that in. Multiple ships entering a wormhole is feasible, but I still think there will largely be a single ark and it will function as the main hub for the Citadel races in the game. Probably, it is the Presidium-esque concept art we saw.

[Iakus]

If we're dealing with a single "Ark ship" we're talking about a ship far bigger than even a dreadnought.  It would probably be the size of one of the Ward arms on the Citadel.

[Kabooooom]

If we're dealing with a single "Ark ship" we're talking about a ship far bigger than even a dreadnought. It would probably be the size of one of the Ward arms on the Citadel.

Probably so. If the Presidium-like concept art is truly the ark as I suspect, then the diameter of that thing does roughly appear to be similar to the Presidium, and I envision it stretching out below the central axis for living quarters, storage, engines, etc. A design similar in appearance to Omega, with the top hemisphere being the Presidium area (which isn't a Stanford torus like the old Presidium, it looks arched like a hemisphere), and the rest of the ship below. Could be cool if it was like that.

We will know more when more than just a single concept art piece is released, of course. But, I have a hard time believing that this game takes place generations after arrival in Andromeda, which it would really have to be if they could build a massive structure like that in Andromeda, as there would be zero infrastructure when they get there - obviously.

So my hypothesis is that they built it in the MW, and brought it with them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Probably so. If the Presidium-like concept art is truly the ark as I suspect, then the diameter of that thing does roughly appear to be similar to the Presidium, and I envision it stretching out below the central axis for living quarters, storage, engines, etc. A design similar in appearance to Omega, with the top hemisphere being the Presidium area (which isn't a Stanford torus like the old Presidium, it looks arched like a hemisphere), and the rest of the ship below. Could be cool if it was like that.

And you find it perfectly logical that they could build that in two years at most? 

 

We will know more when more than just a single concept art piece is released, of course. But, I have a hard time believing that this game takes place generations after arrival in Andromeda, which it would really have to be if they could build a massive structure like that in Andromeda, as there would be zero infrastructure when they get there - obviously.

So my hypothesis is that they built it in the MW, and brought it with them.

My hypothesis is that it is Andromeda's Citadel. 

[Kabooooom]

And you find it perfectly logical that they could build that in two years at most?

My hypothesis is that it is Andromeda's Citadel.

Who said anything about two years? The Asari apparently knew about the Reapers for two millennia and lied about it. Hell, TIM knew about them for thirty years, and we dont know who actually builds the thing (although most likely the Council).

Besides, do you find it plausible that they could construct the Crucible, a far greater engineering project, in six months at most? Lol.

And you find it perfectly plausible that "Andromeda's Citadel" would evoke a very similar design to the Presidium, which was designed billions of years ago by a different species? Or that Andromeda would have a citadel in the first place when the game is taking place in a single large star cluster?

Also, I have always maintained, ever since being one of the first people here to predict Andromeda, that I do not think they will get there by intergalactic ark. It is fun to participate in discussion and hypothesizing on the matter, but I think they will build a large ark and then get there by wormhole, relay, or relay-equivalent.

The problem isn't the SIZE of the thing. The lore shows that dreadnoughts can be constructed relatively quickly within the two year interval of Shepard's death. The problem is the engineering involved. Almost no one here has argued that the ark is implausible because of size, as that's ridiculous. What they are arguing against is crossing the intergalactic void with it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Who said anything about two years? The Asari apparently knew about the Reapers for two millennia and lied about it. Hell, TIM knew about them for thirty years, and we dont know who actually builds the thing (although most likely the Council).

Besides, do you find it plausible that they could construct the Crucible, a far greater engineering project, in six months at most? Lol.

And you find it perfectly plausible that "Andromeda's Citadel" would evoke a very similar design to the Presidium, which was designed billions of years ago by a different species? Or that Andromeda would have a citadel in the first place when the game is taking place in a single large star cluster?

Also, I have always maintained, ever since being one of the first people here to predict Andromeda, that I do not think they will get there by intergalactic ark. It is fun to participate in discussion and hypothesizing on the matter, but I think they will build a large ark and then get there by wormhole, relay, or relay-equivalent.

The problem isn't the SIZE of the thing. The lore shows that dreadnoughts can be constructed relatively quickly within the two year interval of Shepard's death. The problem is the engineering involved. Almost no one here has argued that the ark is implausible because of size, as that's ridiculous. What they are arguing against is crossing the intergalactic void with it.

Because that's when the Reapers' existence became known to the cycle. Sure a few individuals may have known, but they wouldn't be able to do anything of that scale without drawing attention, thus getting into trouble and revealing their secret. 

 

Well, I've always seen the Crucible as a Deus Ex Machina, both figuratively and literally. But I find it more plausible since the data cache practically spoonfeeds us the information about it rather than being the data being cryptic or us figuring it out by ourselves. 

 

Yes, I find it perfectly plausible that the cluster we go to can be home to Andromeda's Citadel. It would have to be somewhere if it exists. As for it being identical looking, well that's easy: They look similar because they were built by the same species.

 

I agree. Bioware was very cryptic about whether Mass Relays would be involved in MEA, so I think they are hiding something about them.  I think they will use a Mass Relay, maybe the Citadel Relay which connects to a Mass Relay in Dark Space which may connect to Andromeda, hence the concept art being Andromeda's Citadel. It is a logical way to get to Andromeda without breaking the established lore or using a DEM like a wormhole. 

[Iakus]

Who said anything about two years? The Asari apparently knew about the Reapers for two millennia and lied about it. Hell, TIM knew about them for thirty years, and we dont know who actually builds the thing (although most likely the Council).

Umm, the asari didn't know about the Reapers, they knew about the beacon.  ANd they couldn't properly access it until someone with the Cipher (or a living Prothean) was present.

[Kabooooom]

Umm, the asari didn't know about the Reapers, they knew about the beacon. ANd they couldn't properly access it until someone with the Cipher (or a living Prothean) was present.

They certainly could have. A Cipher wasn't necessary, they extracted data from the thing just fine. Fine enough to one-up every other species in the galaxy technologically and scientifically for thousands of years. The Cipher allowed access to Vendetta specifically, and for instant understanding of the knowledge contained within the beacon. That doesn't mean that knowledge could not be deduced from studying the raw data itself. The Asari apparently understood Prothean language and technology well enough after years of study to utilize it effectively after all.

It seems pretty stupid that they had the ability to extract technological and scientific data from the thing, but not data on the Reapers - the single most important pieces of information contained within it and the greatest threat that the Protheans faced.

More likely, they COULD and did extract information about the Reapers, but either didn't fully grasp the danger or that they would return, or decided in secret to screw the entire galaxy. With the former, they could never release that information to the galaxy at large without explaining how they came upon it, which they would never do if they were unsure of the imminence of the threat.

With the latter, it just makes the Asari a bunch of azure assholes, but makes a certain kind of sense in that withholding information of that magnitude would prevent widespread public panic, while secretly working on the only project that could preserve life at all (that they were aware of, at least).

Liara even mentions the foreknowledge that the Asari clearly had due to their possession of the beacon, and that her mother must have looked on with amusement while she toiled away attempting to unravel the mysteries of the Protheans.

[Iakus]

They certainly could have. A Cipher wasn't necessary, they extracted data from the thing just fine. Fine enough to one-up every other species in the galaxy technologically and scientifically for thousands of years. The Cipher allowed access to Vendetta specifically, and for instant understanding of the knowledge contained within the beacon. That doesn't mean that knowledge could not be deduced from studying the raw data itself. The Asari apparently understood Prothean language and technology well enough after years of study to utilize it effectively after all.

It seems pretty stupid that they had the ability to extract technological and scientific data from the thing, but not data on the Reapers - the single most important pieces of information contained within it and the greatest threat that the Protheans faced.

More likely, they COULD and did extract information about the Reapers, but either didn't fully grasp the danger or that they would return, or decided in secret to screw the entire galaxy. With the former, they could never release that information to the galaxy at large without explaining how they came upon it, which they would never do if they were unsure of the imminence of the threat.

With the latter, it just makes the Asari a bunch of azure assholes, but makes a certain kind of sense in that withholding information of that magnitude would prevent widespread public panic, while secretly working on the only project that could preserve life at all (that they were aware of, at least).

Liara even mentions the foreknowledge that the Asari clearly had due to their possession of the beacon, and that her mother must have looked on with amusement while she toiled away attempting to unravel the mysteries of the Protheans.

They could access it, but not properly.  It gave them a technological edge to stay on top (so to speak), but it most certainly did not give them information about the Reapers.  Vendetta only came out to play once Shepard (and possibly Javik) were present.  It only fully unlocked when a Prothean mind is present, or a reasonable facsimile.  Otherwise it seemed to be just another learning tool for the primitives.

 

I mena, otherwise wouldn't it make more sense that the asari would have had the Crucible ready to go before the humans even managed to figure out gunpowder?

[Dantriges]

Yes.The thing would probably be ready to go then. What did the Asari actually get out of the beacon? Didn´t seem like they had better tech at all. Their bio amps are better but it´s hardly surprising as their whole population is biotic.

[prosthetic soul]

If ME 4 doesn't canonize any of the endings to ME 3, then it sounds like the Ark Theory is debunked on that fact alone.  If they're going to sever ties from the original Mass Effect trilogy that much, they may as well go all the way and just make this a hard reboot that basically makes a game in which the Reapers never existed. 

 

IMHO, you can't have it both ways.  You either shove this dust bunny completely under the rug or you sweep it up and put it in the trash can once and for all. 

[Ahriman]

Yes.The thing would probably be ready to go then. What did the Asari actually get out of the beacon? Didn´t seem like they had better tech at all. Their bio amps are better but it´s hardly surprising as their whole population is biotic.

Humans were still thinking that Earth is center of the Universe when asari ships reached Citadel. It's not their fault that they had to stop their technological progress, so humanity could catch up.