108 réponses à ce sujet

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Just like to point out one thing.

games arn't real.

 

 

this public servace anouncement was braught to you by the blindingly obvious.

[General TSAR]

... and they're using games (which, again, break the GCs) as an early marketing opportunity (the article I linked even mentions a 12-year-old COD player who says he'd like to own the real deal one day,

And if he wants to buy said weapon(when he's older and still has that interest), he'll have to go through the necessary process like everyone else.

 

I'm pretty sure arms manufacturers would like to see their products used reasonably by their domestic consumers. 

 

 so apparently it works [to some degree, at least]). And, some of these manufacturers sell their weapons in unstable countries and war zones, and buying a game which they have licensed puts even more money in their pockets.

So what? That's the nature of business and the governments of the nations that sit on the UNSC sell more firearms to more shady bastards and psychopaths in a day than all the individual arms manufacturers do in a year. 

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I've killed more people than Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane and Attila combined!

[dreamgazer]

>Posting this beautiful species.

 

Are you happy with yourself?

 

Very.  Always.

[Big Magnet]

I went to have my driver's license renovation while wearing a Carmageddon T-shirt. Is that a bad thing?

 

[Killdren88]

So what...in my Medieval style war game they want me to treat my prisoners of war honorably as if it were modern times instead of butchering them all?

 

Edit: Plus this was posted three years ago...so this clearly never gained any steam.

[MissOuJ]

Just like to point out one thing.

games arn't real.

 

 

this public servace anouncement was braught to you by the blindingly obvious.

 

Yeah, but if we want games to be taken seriously (since, at least in the US, games are officially considered as art, which gives them the protection of free speech, which is a pretty big deal) then we have to start actually talk about their themes and issues seriously. Movies, TV, literature, music, art... pretty much all modern forms of art have gone through this - and are currently going through this cultural criticism in various different forms. "It's just a game/movie/book, lol" is not a working excuse any longer.

 

Every time someone says "It's not real, it's just X, so it's not like we have to actually talk about it", equals "We're not a real art form, so please don't take us seriously".

 

 

And if he wants to buy said weapon(when he's older and still has that interest), he'll have to go through the necessary process like everyone else.

 

I'm pretty sure arms manufacturers would like to see their products used reasonably by their domestic consumers. 

 

... which is why, in the US for example, they use a lot of money to lobby against things like background checks? The nature of their business is to make a profit by selling deadly weapons, which have been specifically designed to kill.

 

I'm probably being a bit hypocritical here, since I do enjoy (if that's the right word) fantasy violence, and gunplay is often part of that. Then again if I have to be a hypocrite, I'd at least like to be a hypocrite that doesn't indirectly finance international weapons trade.

 

 

So what? That's the nature of business and the governments of the nations that sit on the UNSC sell more firearms to more shady bastards and psychopaths in a day than all the individual arms manufacturers do in a year. 

 

Since I disagree with the nature of their business, I care. Also, just pointing out that the governments that do this are actually often lobbied and supplied by the abovementioned manufacturers.

 

 

EDIT

So what...in my Medieval style war game they want me to treat my prisoners of war honorably as if it were modern times instead of butchering them all?

 

The CSs woundn't apply in Medieval / most historical games, since the CSs were drafted in the 1940's...

[Eternal Phoenix]

Found this comment at the bottom of the article, made me laugh.

 

"I think this is well overdue. I play forza motorsport on xbox but ensure I never exceed 50km/h. The tracks are not sign posted with speed limits and being in South Australia, no speed limit sign means 50km/h. I don't win many races but the experience of driving many different cars at the speed limit is nothing less than exhilarating. At the end of the day I can go to bed and sleep soundly knowing my AI and online opponents are the ones who will get caught in the end."

 

This was the best response to that nonsense, it didn't take Red Cross seriously and rightly so.

 

It's 2015 and nothing came of the investigations of Red Cross because their claims were BS of the highest calibre in the first place, they were probably laughed out of the room. Many lol's have probably been had.

[Draining Dragon]

[General TSAR]

I'm probably being a bit hypocritical here, since I do enjoy (if that's the right word) fantasy violence, and gunplay is often part of that. Then again if I have to be a hypocrite, I'd at least like to be a hypocrite that doesn't indirectly finance international weapons trade.

 

If you pay taxes and live in any of the UNSC member states, you do indirectly fiance the international weapons trade to a very small degree, if you buy electronics that have components that are made from resources from the Congo for example, you indirectly finance the arms trade. 

 

It's a glorious fact of life, if you want to be a moral hypocrite, all power to you.

 

Since I disagree with the nature of their business, I care. Also, just pointing out that the governments that do this are actually often lobbied and supplied by the abovementioned manufacturers.

Like in Britain, France, Russia, and China where the very vast majority of the arms manufacturers are actually state owned? I find it funny how in the article, they make a big stink about the FAMAS but they forgot it is manufactured by a state-owned entity.

[Inquisitor Recon]

and the relationships these video games have with arms manufacturers, it become clear why this might be a thing we'd like to discuss a bit more, industry-wise (and as gamers too - it's important to take a critical look at the media you enjoy and consume time to time. IMO).

How is this a problem? If it results in more realistic depictions of weapon systems it's a good thing.

[General TSAR]

How is this a problem? If it results in more realistic depictions of weapon systems it's a good thing.

Because Arms Manufacturers are evil.

[MissOuJ]

If you pay taxes and live in any of the UNSC member states, you do indirectly fiance the international weapons trade to a very small degree, if you buy electronics that have components that are made from resources from the Congo, you indirectly finance the arms trade. 

 

And don't I know that! But I can't just uproot and move somewhere else, or stop buying things that I need, or stop paying taxes. Which is why I try to be a concious consumer and politically active in these matters. They might not do much in short term, but there are some times when something positive pops up, like the proposed EU conflict minerals legislation.

 

I can, however, not buy games / watch movies which I know to have been financed by the US military, for example.

 

 

How is this a problem? If it results in more realistic depictions of weapon systems it's a good thing.

 

...

 

I'm just gonna copy-paste my earlier comment, if it's alright:

 

So some companies have a relationship with Arms Manufacturers and...?

 

... and they're using games (which, again, break the GCs) as an early marketing opportunity (the article I linked even mentions a 12-year-old COD player who says he'd like to own the real deal one day, so apparently it works [to some degree, at least]). And, some of these manufacturers sell their weapons in unstable countries and war zones, and buying a game which they have licensed puts even more money in their pockets.

 

I don't know about you, but I find this information relevant when we talk about war in games and violence in games.

 

Also, there are ways to depict weapons realistically without licensing rights to real weapons from the arms manufacturers. The article which I linked to talks about this also.

[Fidite Nemini]

It wasn't fun until Civilization III. Yet I didn't used to utilize nukes so much because of political sh*tstorm around the world against me.

 

But in few days ago in Civilization V, Zulu has retardly nuked me 8 times (his old capital 6 times) and I only answered it with just one nuke. Now I feel like a softie...

 

There's no political shitstorm if the nation you're nuking is the only one left

 

 

It's like in CnC, you destroy everything the enemy has except his Construction Yard, then build all the superweapons you can, wait for their cooldown and then you obliberate him in a technicolour spectacle of destruction!

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Yeah, but if we want games to be taken seriously (since, at least in the US, games are officially considered as art, which gives them the protection of free speech, which is a pretty big deal) then we have to start actually talk about their themes and issues seriously. Movies, TV, literature, music, art... pretty much all modern forms of art have gone through this - and are currently going through this cultural criticism in various different forms. "It's just a game/movie/book, lol" is not a working excuse any longer.

 

Every time someone says "It's not real, it's just X, so it's not like we have to actually talk about it", equals "We're not a real art form, so please don't take us seriously".

 

Umm you do know Marrio never Fixed any Plumbing right?

Max Payne never Filed a single Report ot Caught a purse snatcher.

my point was the storys are simply that a story.

In GTA that is not a real car you stole. You never killed an actual Dragon EVER.

go and look for a cat.

no matter what you give it that cat wont sell you drugs.

not even if you yell "FUS ROH DAH." trust me i tried like 50 times.

but im sure the git is holding out on me. and i bet he stole my Sweet Roll too.

[Cyonan]

It's like in CnC, you destroy everything the enemy has except his Construction Yard, then build all the superweapons you can, wait for their cooldown and then you obliberate him in a technicolour spectacle of destruction!

 

You should steal their superweapons and use them to destroy their own base.

[Fidite Nemini]

You should steal their superweapons and use them to destroy their own base.

 

 

I do try to, but enemies have a penchant to try and destroy any captured War Factories before I can build a MCV and drive it to safety to steal their techtree.

[General TSAR]

And don't I know that! But I can't just uproot and move somewhere else, or stop buying things that I need, or stop paying taxes. Which is why I try to be a concious consumer and politically active in these matters. They might not do much in short term, but there are some times when something positive pops up, like the proposed EU conflict minerals legislation.

Oh look another attempt to regulate the sale of conflict resources to materialistic countries, I'm sure they'll have better luck than the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme. (snickers)

 

I can, however, not buy games / watch movies which I know to have been financed by the US military, for example.

 

Okay, Arms Manufacturers are one thing, but the US Military? I'm going to assume you're not from the US. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Yeah, but if we want games to be taken seriously (since, at least in the US, games are officially considered as art, which gives them the protection of free speech, which is a pretty big deal) then we have to start actually talk about their themes and issues seriously. Movies, TV, literature, music, art... pretty much all modern forms of art have gone through this - and are currently going through this cultural criticism in various different forms. "It's just a game/movie/book, lol" is not a working excuse any longer.

 

Every time someone says "It's not real, it's just X, so it's not like we have to actually talk about it", equals "We're not a real art form, so please don't take us seriously".

 

 

"Taken Seriously". What is that? What even is that, in reality? What does it actually mean to be "taken seriously"? And "real art form"? Are you serious in suggesting that games should adhere to the art worlds standard of practice? Or the art worlds standards in general?

 

Let me tell you about art. Art is dumb. Art is someone yelling at a bunch of people that what they did is special, and demanding everyone else believe them. Art if a bunch of people looking at something, pretending they see something special in it, and ridiculing anyone who doesn't play along. Art is the emporer's new clothes, taken to its nth degree, and turned into an institution. Art is having feces and menstrual blood smeared on a piece of coarse cotton and being proclaimed a visionary for it.

 

This so called movement to have these mediums "taken seriously" is nothing but elitism and "special snowflake imperial clothing" trying to supplant popular taste as the driving force being the genre. Maybe there should be a discussion, but not the type of discussion that comes from this type of over-analysis, with no leeway given to players or the fact that games simply are not realistic and probably never will be. It's taking imagination and fantasy, and smashing into the ground with a desire for social messaging.

 

That's the problem with a lot of these "discussions", they're trying to steer the medium not towards a new land of higher possibilities, but one of limited possibilities. That rather then a whole medium of niches that make a collective whole of gaming, they want one niche to become king above all niches, and all others to become more like it. Saying games shouldn't be so Micheal Bay-ish is fine, but most of these conversations frame it so that the only "good" outcome for games is to become more Terrence Malick-ey.

[Commander Rpg]

"Serious violations of the laws of war can only be committed in real-life situations, not in video games," Mr Farnoudi told news.com.au.

 

Period.

[Jorji Costava]

That's the problem with a lot of these "discussions", they're trying to steer the medium not towards a new land of higher possibilities, but one of limited possibilities. That rather then a whole medium of niches that make a collective whole of gaming, they want one niche to become king above all niches, and all others to become more like it. Saying games shouldn't be so Micheal Bay-ish is fine, but most of these conversations frame it so that the only "good" outcome for games is to become more Terrence Malick-ey.

 

Let me start this with an example from cinema. In the 1920s, Soviet filmmaker Sergei Eisenstein came up with an editing technique involving the juxtaposition of two distinct images in order to give rise to a third idea in the viewer's mind; this technique was inspired by GWF Hegel's idea of 'dialectic.' Sounds like pretentious pseudo-intellectual nonsense, right? Well, it became the basis of 'montage,' an editing technique that is absolutely ubiquitious in films, TV, commercials, music videos, etc. This example is not unique; most commercial filmmakers today (Spielberg, Bay, Snyder, etc.) will swear by the exact kind of Euro arthouse filmmaker who most audiences would dismiss as a pretentious idiot. Forward progress in most media disproportionately comes from people who are, for lack of a better term, snooty about what they do.

At this point, it's a banality to note that most AAA games are extremely similar to each other; they're usually either first or third person action/stealth games featuring a grizzled veteran protagonist (usually with a miliatary background) who's only forms of expressions are violence and anger. We don't get these similarities because developers think that military-themed shooters constitute serious art: We get them because with ever-ballooning budgets, developers are more risk-averse than ever before, and the perception is that these design choices are the only ones with broad enough appeal to allow these games to recoup the ridiculous cost of making them. In the wake of these trends, I find it impossible to believe that it's artistically-minded critics who are stifling innovation.

[TheJediSaint]

Civ foreign policy:  "Nuke'em"

[AventuroLegendary]

As a Total War player, I should be strung up as soon as possible.

 

Crimes against peace? All of those broken alliances...

Crimes against humanity? Hey, sacking cities is how I support my armies.

Traditionally? All POWs killed and naval bombardments.

[DeathScepter]

so we are not...............hero..... or even heroic