66 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Who ever really feels iffy about darkspawn? They're walking super-diseased parasites. If we were able to eradicate the millions of them in the Deep Roads in one fell swoop, we'd do Thedas the biggest favor in a thousand years. XD

I guess the biggest thing is being able to successfully kill so many people and come out largely unscathed. It turns out that every PC in BioWare games is secretly the angel of death, come down to show these puny mortals what real killers look like.

There's no real moral equivalent. Darkspawn poisom the land by existing on it and are effectively rape abominations (in the sense that their reproductive cycle requires the violation, mutilation and mutation of women of other species).

Their own existence is anathema to the existence of other races as much as darkspawn parasitically require them to exist. I'm not sure it's as much genocide as it would be self defence.

[leaguer of one]

No; the righteous path is paved with the bodies of the wicked.

*Backs away slowly.

[KaiserShep]

Their own existence is anathema to the existence of other races as much as darkspawn parasitically require them to exist. I'm not sure it's as much genocide as it would be self defence.

 

Especially when you look at the wastelands of the Western Approach. This is the first time we've actually gotten to see just how nasty the land looks after a Blight.

[Master Warder Z_]

Especially when you look at the wastelands of the Western Approach. This is the first time we've actually gotten to see just how nasty the land looks after a Blight.

Just looking over that edge and then for the far as the eye can see.

Just twisted blighted wastelands

[Nehn]

It would be hard to kill a love interest or best friend. You can still strongly disapprove of their actions, but fail to render judgement because you're only human? You have feelings and memories unlike with the "faceless" people you run around killing. 

[Sports72Xtrm]

Are we justifying not killing anders or not feeling bad about killing mooks? "Good" is subjective. Is scapegoating or killing what I assume was your friend Anders to mollify the abstract concept of "law" is "good", considering the corruption and abuse of the law to mages and downtrodden elves? Why sacrifice a friend for a law who does not have everyone's best interests in mind, even yourself if you are a mage. Is that considered "good" to you? Or even to mollify the vengeful, resentful, conniving, envious, people of Kirkwall- is that reason considered "good"? Why do people think they owe these faceless masses anything? Hawke rose to power on their own merits, and these people of Kirkwall would have shanked Hawke for his coin and let him starve in the streets until Hawke proved themself an asset that they're dependent on, whether because they were weak from the Qunari or from the templars, or maleficarum.

 

Why save Anders? The only reason a good Hawke has to save Anders is you genuinely care about your companions and you don't want to see the good man you admired using his abilities to help the downtrodden in Darktown throw away his humanity- his ability to care about people- for a cause. Admittedly though, even I consider what he did the most practical method, but since his abomination status requires him to remain pure and sincere in order to not be a mindless beserker monster, perhaps Hawke being self-righteous is the better course for him.

[andy6915]

Especially when you look at the wastelands of the Western Approach. This is the first time we've actually gotten to see just how nasty the land looks after a Blight.

 

Do you have a good pic or video? I never saw that.

[Master Warder Z_]

Do you have a good pic or video? I never saw that.

No pictures or video but I have a location.

The area past the Chantry cave at the edge of the map were it slopes down at the western end.

Look from there

[andy6915]

No pictures or video but I have a location.

The area past the Chantry cave at the edge of the map were it slopes down at the western end.

Look from there

 

I can't right now, and won't any time soon. If I could see it myself I would.

[Master Warder Z_]

http://arcadesushi.c...&a=t&q=89&w=630

Some of it's featured in this concept art

[andy6915]

http://arcadesushi.c...&a=t&q=89&w=630

Some of it's featured in this concept art

 

I never really thought about it before even though I knew it based on the lore, but... I only just now realized how utterly scary blights are. They screw up the land so badly that the damage is still COMPLETELY OBVIOUS AND VISIBLE OVER A THOUSAND FREAKING YEARS LATER! Holy crap that is bad. I don't think there's any modern day weaponry, including nukes, that can leave damage on that scale that takes several thousand years to to heal (if it ever does). Imagine if in our world there were section of the planet today where the land is as screwed up as that area and the Anderfels are, from a disaster that occurred in the BC era, with the land still black and sickened and dead looking over 2000 years later in our modern world? Terrifying.

[Ashaantha]

ahh just the title brings back Da2 memories.

 

Sebastian: It's a lot like here. But fewer dead people.
Varric: Well, you don't have Hawke.

[KaiserShep]

No pictures or video but I have a location.

The area past the Chantry cave at the edge of the map were it slopes down at the western end.

Look from there

It's basically on all ends of the map. Just past Griffon Wing Keep the land pretty much stretches to the horizon with that crap. If you choose to fight the Abyssal High Dragon, and choose to have the dragon dissected for study on the war table, it's revealed that the dragon had actually contracted the blight, but has a natural defense mechanism that keeps it from succumbing to its effects by surrounding and isolating the blighted tissue in its own body.

[ThomasBlaine]

I suppose it should be disturbing that Hawke, or the Inquisitor, are forced to kill a lot of people, but it's us or them, so fools gotta die, and have their miserable corpses looted as just reward. Special mention goes to Duke Prosper, whose pompous ass gets the best murder in the entire game. Really? Threats while hanging over a cliff? It's like you want to make sweet love to gravity.

 

Actually, I don't remember Duke Prosper's death to be particularly justified. You pretty much just invade his home and steal from him during a party, killing his guests and staff left and right, and then kill him when he tries to defend his property. I'd call Hawke's bodycount during that particular DLC disturbing, and I don't normally like Orlesians.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Inquisitor: I don't kill THAT many people.

 

Dorian: Are you joking? I'm only surprised that you didn't kill someone just walking over here.

I hate that banter since my Inquisitor only ever kills in defense and yet Dorian makes it sound like you're a psychopath. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Actually, I don't remember Duke Prosper's death to be particularly justified. You pretty much just invade his home and steal from him during a party, killing his guests and staff left and right, and then kill him when he tries to defend his property. I'd call Hawke's bodycount during that particular DLC disturbing.

Well he did call it a murder...

[KaiserShep]

Actually, I don't remember Duke Prosper's death to be particularly justified. You pretty much just invade his home and steal from him during a party, killing his guests and staff left and right, and then kill him when he tries to defend his property. I'd call Hawke's bodycount during that particular DLC disturbing.

 

I don't recall killing any guests or staff, only that one doofus in the hunting grounds who tries to kill you if you spare his life prior, and of course those soldiers and those harlequins that Prosper sets on you once he catches up with you, but it's true that Hawke is invading his home. Though, there is that guard that Tallis kills outright. Still, I never really said specifically that it was justified (I did say it was murder), only that it was satisfying, which it was. It's all so Orlesian. They live (and die) for that sort of thing anyway XD

 

I hate that banter since my Inquisitor only ever kills in defense and yet Dorian makes it sound like you're a psychopath. 

 

It could also be interpreted that the Inquisitor can't take a step without running someone trying to kill him/her.

[AresKeith]

No; the righteous path is paved with the bodies of the wicked.

 

To the gates of Valhalla

[Panda]

My disappointed Hawke usually lets Anders go. Which Anders answers by coming back to kill them so I don't feel bad killing him in the battle after that.  

[SardaukarElite]

Most of the people Hawke kills have just fallen out of the sky right? I assume they're actually pigeons in disguise, and Hawke is helping Shale.

 

I never really thought about it before even though I knew it based on the lore, but... I only just now realized how utterly scary blights are. They screw up the land so badly that the damage is still COMPLETELY OBVIOUS AND VISIBLE OVER A THOUSAND FREAKING YEARS LATER! Holy crap that is bad. I don't think there's any modern day weaponry, including nukes, that can leave damage on that scale that takes several thousand years to to heal (if it ever does). Imagine if in our world there were section of the planet today where the land is as screwed up as that area and the Anderfels are, from a disaster that occurred in the BC era, with the land still black and sickened and dead looking over 2000 years later in our modern world? Terrifying.

 

There are visible impact craters from tens of thousands of years ago, and I'm pretty sure if you detonated a Tsar Bomb right you'd leave a really big hole that didn't go away any time soon. Of course you wouldn't stain the land black with pure evil because, you know, magic.

[LOLandStuff]

That many less idiots populating Thedas.

[Master Warder Z_]

To the gates of Valhalla

Only the worthy and shiny enter Valhalla!

[Wintersbreath]

Well sure, yes it was self defense for the most part, but I'm pretty sure most of the cases don't warrant a bodily explosion of innards via Hemorrhage, or THE murder knife to the eye... The thing is, in-game Hawke seemed to be extremely nonchalant about the whole body count.

 

I guess even a coldblooded serial murderer can have friends he couldn't kill himself.

 

Why sacrifice a friend for a law who does not have everyone's best interests in mind, even yourself if you are a mage. Is that considered "good" to you? Or even to mollify the vengeful, resentful, conniving, envious, people of Kirkwall- is that reason considered "good"? Why do people think they owe these faceless masses anything?

 

Um, have you considered that "the vengeful, resentful, conniving, envious, people of Kirkwall" also include Hawke and their family and party members? Do the lives of those killed in the blast not matter? What Anders did was an act of terrorism. You can argue about whether the ends justifies the means, if the ends was even justified, and if that is enough to absolve his crimes, but if you don't think you "owe" the people of Kirkwall something by not having Anders judged, you have a problem. Anyway, I didn't intend to leave Anders to the "law" of Kirkwall in my headcanon. Either way, like Loghain, Anders is going to have to answer for his crimes. But according to Varric, Anders seemed to have left the refugee mages unscathed, which is something I'll have to think about at the Keep for the next game. Or, I'll probably just let it play out and rewrite choices afterward.

 

In game violence has never meant anything in any DA game. It means nothing to the narrative or its characters.

 

Which is one of my biggest gripes about the series (& 99% of triple A games in general) where the violence is thrown in Just there to be gamey filler. It creates such a disconnect with the characters actions in the narrative & their actions in gameplay. 

 

Eg Merrill is sweet as cinnamon, is easily flustered by dirty talk but has killed well over 200 people... Sure game, whatever you say. 

 This. I'm just trying to reconcile my headcanon with canon.

[Sports72Xtrm]

 

Um, have you considered that "the vengeful, resentful, conniving, envious, people of Kirkwall" also include Hawke and their family and party members? Do the lives of those killed in the blast not matter? What Anders did was an act of terrorism. You can argue about whether the ends justifies the means, if the ends was even justified, and if that is enough to absolve his crimes, but if you don't think you "owe" the people of Kirkwall something by not having Anders judged, you have a problem. Anyway, I didn't intend to leave Anders to the "law" of Kirkwall in my headcanon. Either way, like Loghain, Anders is going to have to answer for his crimes. But according to Varric, Anders seemed to have left the refugee mages unscathed, which is something I'll have to think about at the Keep for the next game. Or, I'll probably just let it play out and rewrite choices afterward.

So you think personalizing it makes it more just? Were the elven qunari converts who had their sister raped and killed that guardsman illegally an act of justice or terrorism? Would you punish those elves? It was personal for them too. The Qunari had been repeatedly provoked, so have the mages, by Kirkwall's corrupt? Do they not deserve satisfaction in the conquering of all Kirkwall and inflicting cruelty on their oppressors? But Hawke stood in the way of that and killed many who had personal grievances in defense of Kirkwall. "Justice" - eye for an eye notion or blood payed with blood- is a luxury of the victors, and most of the time I've seen it only as a means of vengeance and resentment from the weak to inflict on those who took initiative rather than suffer in silence- it does not fix problems, but rather inflict suffering and cruelty to make people feel better. It's a childish notion of justice. No, personalizing it does not make it more "just", and in my opinion, I think it absurd people think they are entitled to this childish nonsensical notion of justice.

 

Of course what Anders did was horrific, but it was meant to change the world, and his reasoning was there was no other way to do that peacefully. After seeing the Chantry and Seekers turn a blind eye to the abuses, I find it hard to believe peaceful methods could have changed the world or shook it out of it's apathy. To claim any conventional self-righteous stance on it seems a delusion.

[vertigomez]

Well sure, yes it was self defense for the most part, but I'm pretty sure most of the cases don't warrant a bodily explosion of innards via Hemorrhage, or THE murder knife to the eye... The thing is, in-game Hawke seemed to be extremely nonchalant about the whole body count.

I think you've just gotta take a good look at the setting and circumstances. IRL, I'm not about to stab someone in the gut with a sword, not only because it's, uh, murder... but because slowly dying of a stomach wound is a horrible, gruesome way to go. But in a land where the weapon of choice is an up-close-and-personal sword, that's just part of the package. You either accept it or become a farmer.