38 réponses à ce sujet

[Theghostof_timmy]

As we all know, the new characters have all-new combat mechanics that can make the vanilla characters seem shallow by comparison. However, BioWare has demonstrated they are able to add small things to the existing characters ie. the Katari guard on hit. Luke has also hinted he is looking at adding innate heal on hit/kill to the Reaver. This got me thinking, what if we added similar mechanics to some of the vanilla characters to make them more interesting? So here goes:

 

Legionnaire: Cooldown -.5 secs on hit. Walking fortress nerf hit him really hard (totally unnecessary BTW Luke) when you factor in not only the potential damage taken in those lost two seconds, but guard and cooldown reduction gained. Anyways, since the Lego is hardly a kill factory, a kill based mechanic is unreasonable. IMO Gathering Storm-style cooldown reduction would enable him to keep his abilities up longer and increase his survivability on perilous.

 

Templar: 10 Stamina on kill. When playing Belinda I frequently find myself empty on stamina due to my frequent shield bashing. This is a problem when I need to do the WoH-SP combo. I use WoH, and because I need exactly 100 stamina to pull of the combo, due to the nerf (another out-of-the-blue, totally uncalled for nerf to one of the characters already considered among the weakest) I don't have time to get enough stamina back to use SP. Stamina on kill would also assist with her shield wall usage.

 

Alchemist: 10% chance of poison on hit. Because more poison is always good.

 

Hunter: 25% chance of immobilizing enemy for 3 secs on crit. He likes traps and stuff, right? This would help with surviving his stealth cooldown.

 

Necromancer: Enemies who hit her Simulacrum are panicked. OH NO ITS A GHOST! Dunno if this one is possible, since it's not a global change. It would make Simulacrum, much, much better though.

 

Assassin: Innate Armor penetration. Cuz she's so sneaky and stabby and whatnot. I don't know what would be a balanced amount.

 

Keeper: 10 Mana on kill. Neria bores the hell out of me. It's incredibly annoying when I use static cage, only to find my or my team's barrier is almost out, and I'm out of mana. This, I feel, would help bridge the gap. Like the Legionnaire, the keeper is hardly a dps beast, so I think this would be balanced.

 

 

Not included: Arcane Warrior (FS is enough), Reaver (planned already), Elementalist (flashpoint), Archer (I can't think of anything that doesn't make him OP), Katari (already done), Dragonslayer chars.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Only 26 views and no replies? I am disappoint.

[Thadrial]

If they add anything to the reaver I hope it isn't innate heal on hit because that doesn't mesh well with the fact that she does more damage the more hurt she is. Instead of innate abilities *though those could be nice depending on what they are* I hope they change some of the useless skills on some of the characters. Though if recent events is any clue I think they're on their way to changing unused skills to be a little better. 

[Hellsteeth30]

Bane voice samples.

That is all.

[Its Waffle Time]

I'd love to see Avvar be given elemental buffs for debuffs he has on him...

 

if hes chilled he gets his armor passive etc.

[Theghostof_timmy]

I'd love to see Avvar be given elemental buffs for debuffs he has on him...

 

if hes chilled he gets his armor passive etc.

He actually does, lol. Frozen defense (or whatever it's called) activates when chilled.

[Hellsteeth30]

The Avvar needs a "do I not like that" sample added.

An internet will be awarded to the first person to get the reference.

[Its Waffle Time]

He actually does, lol. Frozen defense (or whatever it's called) activates when chilled.

Wrong. Frozen defense triggers if any ALLIES are near you.. and chilled.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Wrong. Frozen defense triggers if any ALLIES are near you.. and chilled.

*Shrugs* whatever you say. I'm fairly sure Drasca said it applies when the Avvar is chilled, though.

[BansheeOwnage]

As we all know, the new characters have all-new combat mechanics that can make the vanilla characters seem shallow by comparison. However, BioWare has demonstrated they are able to add small things to the existing characters ie. the Katari guard on hit. Luke has also hinted he is looking at adding innate heal on hit/kill to the Reaver. This got me thinking, what if we added similar mechanics to some of the vanilla characters to make them more interesting? So here goes:

 

Legionnaire: Cooldown -.5 secs on hit. Walking fortress nerf hit him really hard (totally unnecessary BTW Luke) when you factor in not only the potential damage taken in those lost two seconds, but guard and cooldown reduction gained. Anyways, since the Lego is hardly a kill factory, a kill based mechanic is unreasonable. IMO Gathering Storm-style cooldown reduction would enable him to keep his abilities up longer and increase his survivability on perilous.

 

Templar: 10 Stamina on kill. When playing Belinda I frequently find myself empty on stamina due to my frequent shield bashing. This is a problem when I need to do the WoH-SP combo. I use WoH, and because I need exactly 100 stamina to pull of the combo, due to the nerf (another out-of-the-blue, totally uncalled for nerf to one of the characters already considered among the weakest) I don't have time to get enough stamina back to use SP. Stamina on kill would also assist with her shield wall usage.

 

Alchemist: 10% chance of poison on hit. Because more poison is always good.

 

Hunter: 25% chance of immobilizing enemy for 3 secs on crit. He likes traps and stuff, right? This would help with surviving his stealth cooldown.

 

Necromancer: Enemies who hit her Simulacrum are panicked. OH NO ITS A GHOST! Dunno if this one is possible, since it's not a global change. It would make Simulacrum, much, much better though.

 

Assassin: Innate Armor penetration. Cuz she's so sneaky and stabby and whatnot. I don't know what would be a balanced amount.

 

Keeper: 10 Mana on kill. Neria bores the hell out of me. It's incredibly annoying when I use static cage, only to find my or my team's barrier is almost out, and I'm out of mana. This, I feel, would help bridge the gap. Like the Legionnaire, the keeper is hardly a dps beast, so I think this would be balanced.

 

 

Not included: Arcane Warrior (FS is enough), Reaver (planned already), Elementalist (flashpoint), Archer (I can't think of anything that doesn't make him OP), Katari (already done), Dragonslayer chars.

Good ideas. I'd make the Legionnaire have .2 second cooldown reduction per hit instead of .5.

[Its Waffle Time]

*Shrugs* whatever you say. I'm fairly sure Drasca said it applies when the Avvar is chilled, though.

If the passive effect was triggering:

#1: You'd see it on your buff/debuff bar

#2: The visual would queue on the model itself

 

It only triggers when things near you are chilled/frozen... it specifically does not say when under the effects of chill/frozen

[Theghostof_timmy]

Good ideas. I'd make the Legionnaire have .2 second cooldown reduction per hit instead of .5.

I don't think .2 is enough though. 5 hits just to take 1 second off? Negligible. 0.2 kinda works for the duelist, but daggers are much faster than 1h. Her cooldowns are also shorter in general.

[Theghostof_timmy]

If the passive effect was triggering:

#1: You'd see it on your buff/debuff bar

#2: The visual would queue on the model itself

 

It only triggers when things near you are chilled/frozen... it specifically does not say when under the effects of chill/frozen

Surely you've spent enough time here to know that what it says in the tooltip isn't always what it actually does   I'm going to have to check tomorrow.

[Thadrial]

I don't think .2 is enough though. 5 hits just to take 1 second off? Negligible. 0.2 kinda works for the duelist, but daggers are much faster than 1h. Her cooldowns are also shorter in general.

I run the tourney axe with crit added to it and considering I only have 20 cunning and no crit chance rings I get a lot of cooldown just from that. .5 per hit would be insane. Not that i'd mind 

[TheThirdRace]

Legionnaire: Cooldown -.5 secs on hit. Walking fortress nerf hit him really hard (totally unnecessary BTW Luke) when you factor in not only the potential damage taken in those lost two seconds, but guard and cooldown reduction gained. Anyways, since the Lego is hardly a kill factory, a kill based mechanic is unreasonable. IMO Gathering Storm-style cooldown reduction would enable him to keep his abilities up longer and increase his survivability on perilous.

I'm all for the -0.5 sec on hit boost, but I must disagree with your assessment of the Legionnaire.

What the Legionnaire needs is Guard that actually do something. Right now 1 or 2 arrows are enough to drop you on Perilous. If an archer does his step back move, you die with full Guard and full health (1000 HP + 25% base from Guard). Base Guard should be 75 to 100% of you HP to matter, not 25% like it is now. Barrier is so powerful compared to Guard it's ridiculous. Get hit by 10 arrows when you have Barrier, your Barrier is still holding with you health intact. Get hit by 2 arrows with full Guard, you're lying in a pool of your own blood. No amount of cooldown is gonna fix that, even if you could fire up 3 abilities that give your Guard, it would melt like ice cream in the desert just by the time the animation finishes...

As for the Legionnaire not being a kill factory, it's because you're spec him as such. Since any normal party has someone to dispense Barrier (Keeper, Virtuoso, Elementalist), there's no real need to go for Guard. I go all offense with Payback Strike, Lunge and Slash, Shield Bash and whatever inspire my fantasy at the moment. Sometimes it's Walking Fortress, sometimes it's Unbowed, sometimes it's To The Death, it doesn't really matter as they're used very very sparsely. With the 3 offensive skills, you become a killing machine, I did 173 kills in a Perilous PUG Friday night. Yeah, you read that right... 173 kills. Enemies are on their back most of the time with that build so they don't do as much damage. You also get to move around the battlefield quite faster. I prefer to avoid being turtled up doing basically nothing, meaning instead of focusing only on trying to survive, I bring the battle to my opponents and hit them hard. Again, no amount of cooldown is gonna help here either since you can maintain the 3 offensive skills in a 8 seconds rotation circle with the Superb Stamina amulet.

I agree Walking Fortress' 6 seconds duration is too low. I think Bioware forgot that you lose about 1.5 seconds just for the animation, what can you do with 4.5 seconds of invulnerability on a 20-ish second cooldown? Guard doesn't build up at all so it's very situational.

[Theghostof_timmy]

I'm all for the -0.5 sec on hit boost, but I must disagree with your assessment of the Legionnaire.

What the Legionnaire needs is Guard that actually do something. Right now 1 or 2 arrows are enough to drop you on Perilous. If an archer does his step back move, you die with full Guard and full health (1000 HP + 25% base from Guard). Base Guard should be 75 to 100% of you HP to matter, not 25% like it is now. Barrier is so powerful compared to Guard it's ridiculous. Get hit by 10 arrows when you have Barrier, your Barrier is still holding with you health intact. Get hit by 2 arrows with full Guard, you're lying in a pool of your own blood. No amount of cooldown is gonna fix that, even if you could fire up 3 abilities that give your Guard, it would melt like ice cream in the desert just by the time the animation finishes...

As for the Legionnaire not being a kill factory, it's because you're spec him as such. Since any normal party has someone to dispense Barrier (Keeper, Virtuoso, Elementalist), there's no real need to go for Guard. I go all offense with Payback Strike, Lunge and Slash, Shield Bash and whatever inspire my fantasy at the moment. Sometimes it's Walking Fortress, sometimes it's Unbowed, sometimes it's To The Death, it doesn't really matter as they're used very very sparsely. With the 3 offensive skills, you become a killing machine, I did 173 kills in a Perilous PUG Friday night. Yeah, you read that right... 173 kills. Enemies are on their back most of the time with that build so they don't do as much damage. You also get to move around the battlefield quite faster. I prefer to avoid being turtled up doing basically nothing, meaning instead of focusing only on trying to survive, I bring the battle to my opponents and hit them hard. Again, no amount of cooldown is gonna help here either since you can maintain the 3 offensive skills in a 8 seconds rotation circle with the Superb Stamina amulet.

I agree Walking Fortress' 6 seconds duration is too low. I think Bioware forgot that you lose about 1.5 seconds just for the animation, what can you do with 4.5 seconds of invulnerability on a 20-ish second cooldown? Guard doesn't build up at all so it's very situational.

I'm operating under the assumption he's being used for his intended purpose, tanking. With barrierbots any character can do anything. The guard buff IS coming in the next patch, and Luke has suggested that he might be buffing armor to go along with the new difficulty. Remember barrier is receiving a 25%-30% nerf to strength too, which means you'll be less of a tank.

[TheThirdRace]

I'm operating under the assumption he's being used for his intended purpose, tanking. With barrierbots any character can do anything. The guard buff IS coming in the next patch, and Luke has suggested that he might be buffing armor to go along with the new difficulty. Remember barrier is receiving a 25%-30% nerf to strength too, which means you'll be less of a tank.

His intended purpose was taking aggro and tanking. Keeping aggro simply doesn't work and being a tank is possible only if you invest everything you can in it. To play the Legionnaire like his intended purpose, you need to sacrifice most of your damage and practically all your mobility.

On the other hand, Barrier characters can tank better than any Warrior, deal insane damage (even the Keeper if you know how), have crowd control and have access to the best mobility skills...

In other words, the price to being a Warrior tank is to wait in place while contributing pennies to the team. The price for being a Mage tank is to control the battlefield, melt your enemies and move freely everywhere... I hardly call Warrior tanks a success in their intended purpose...

As for the Guard boost and Barrier nerf, I'm aware of if and I can't wait to see it in action. Although I have the feeling Guard will still melt like wet tissue paper and a 20 to 30% nerf to Barrier won't change a thing. I'll reserve final judgment until it's done, but for the moment I remain skeptical. Personally, if Guard becomes actually good then my offensive build will be even better so I won't complain there.

All I'm saying is players should realize that being simply a tank brings basically nothing. Your teammates will have a higher survivability if the enemy is dead instead of attacking you, or them if you failed to keep aggro. The clearing time is also much faster when you kill the enemies instead of waiting for them to fall asleep while you turtle up...

[Theghostof_timmy]

His intended purpose was taking aggro and tanking. Keeping aggro simply doesn't work and being a tank is possible only if you invest everything you can in it. To play the Legionnaire like his intended purpose, you need to sacrifice most of your damage and practically all your mobility.

On the other hand, Barrier characters can tank better than any Warrior, deal insane damage (even the Keeper if you know how), have crowd control and have access to the best mobility skills...

In other words, the price to being a Warrior tank is to wait in place while contributing pennies to the team. The price for being a Mage tank is to control the battlefield, melt your enemies and move freely everywhere... I hardly call Warrior tanks a success in their intended purpose...

As for the Guard boost and Barrier nerf, I'm aware of if and I can't wait to see it in action. Although I have the feeling Guard will still melt like wet tissue paper and a 20 to 30% nerf to Barrier won't change a thing. I'll reserve final judgment until it's done, but for the moment I remain skeptical. Personally, if Guard becomes actually good then my offensive build will be even better so I won't complain there.

All I'm saying is players should realize that being simply a tank brings basically nothing. Your teammates will have a higher survivability if the enemy is dead instead of attacking you, or them if you failed to keep aggro. The clearing time is also much faster when you kill the enemies instead of waiting for them to fall asleep while you turtle up...

Losing on average 1000 barrier HP will probably make a dent. It'll hurt the virtuoso more than the keeper/elementalist, because he only gives a portion of barrier at a time. Those times that you're low on mana and are desperately trying to spam barrier to stay alive are probably going to result in more failures. The nerfducks will get their virtuoso nerf, mark my words. On guard, since the figure Luke tossed out was 200%, we'll assume that without any other added benefits, guard will now be set at 50% total hp. Still not amazing, but a little extra survivability can make a difference. (I for one can't wait to abuse with the Avvar, muhahahaha) If that comes along with an armor buff though, as Luke that suggested there might be, that extra HP will be worth more through resistances. It might even happen that the Virtuoso's armor buff will become more useful than his barrier when it comes to warriors. Time will tell, but I'm excited.

[Luke Barrett]

On the other hand, Barrier characters can tank better than any Warrior

 

If only there was a creature that could cast dispel

[Yuanrang]

I would like to see the Keeper get a stacking damage boost to her next offensive spell, or something similar, when her barriers absorbs damage taken from her or her teammates. That way, it would serve as an incentive to at least pack one strong offensive spell to her, along with her fantastic utility and team-based abilities. It would give her a massive blow that could both serve as a strategic deathblow, or function as a "OH ****" button to kill a particularily dangerous foe faster.

 

Most classes can be built in many different ways, usually bordering between Single Target, Multi Target, Close Quarters Combat, Long Range Combat, Utility, Damage, Tank, Support or even Damage over Time. The Keeper is unique in the regard that she really does not have many different playstyles. Her Primal Spirit tree in particular is woefully underwhelming in terms of damage output.

[TheThirdRace]

Losing on average 1000 barrier HP will probably make a dent. It'll hurt the virtuoso more than the keeper/elementalist, because he only gives a portion of barrier at a time. Those times that you're low on mana and are desperately trying to spam barrier to stay alive are probably going to result in more failures. The nerfducks will get their virtuoso nerf, mark my words. On guard, since the figure Luke tossed out was 200%, we'll assume that without any other added benefits, guard will now be set at 50% total hp. Still not amazing, but a little extra survivability can make a difference. (I for one can't wait to abuse with the Avvar, muhahahaha) If that comes along with an armor buff though, as Luke that suggested there might be, that extra HP will be worth more through resistances. It might even happen that the Virtuoso's armor buff will become more useful than his barrier when it comes to warriors. Time will tell, but I'm excited.

I'm not saying losing 1000 HP Barrier won't make a dent, but it's not as bad as it looks. That Barrier decays at 10%/second (in reality it's 8.5% but let's keep it simple) so that 1000 HP is only 100 HP/second all things considered. 100 HP is nothing, the nerf won't effect Barrier a lot. There sure will be times where your Barrier melts, but that's gonna be the player's fault for standing out in the open ready to be shot by 10+ archers...

As for Guard, BLuke said "twice as effective" so in that context 200% means "3 times as effective". I'm pretty sure you knew it, I'm just clarifying it up for other people reading it. I hope it's not just gonna be a 50% total HP boost for Guard, because that would be just a half measure. It needs to be twice as effective in all situations, meaning not only the base Guard total, but also all the means to generate Guard, including weapons and such.

Finally, for the Virtuoso... The Barrier nerf won't impact him as much either. A level 1 Virtuoso can keep Barrier up on Perilous 95% of the time. You don't need to be full Barrier, only keeping a sliver up is enough to keep your teammates alive and well. I see Virtoso trying to keep max Barrier and they fail at low level because they don't maximize their mana. A Barrier helps a lot, but it shouldn't be an excuse to make yourself the target of 20+ angry enemies either. Considering a fully upgraded Barrier of 4000 HP nerfed at 2800 HP (30% nerf), that you get only a 20% Barrier per casting (560 HP) and the decay is about 5.525%/second with Knight Protector (147 HP/sec), it means the nerf is 26.25% for the first cast, but only 13.125% if you cast it twice in the same second, even less if cast 3 times. And it's all with a big 30% nerf, if it's only 20% then the numbers would be even lower and by more than 10% because of the relative effectiveness.

In any case, I think you're right it's gonna affect the Virtuoso more than the Keeper, but I don't think it will make a noticeable difference in-game. And you might also be right for A Little Knight Music, it might become much more useful with new armors but so will be Guard so I guess it's a win-win situation. More build options is more variety which brings more fun.

[TheThirdRace]

If only there was a creature that could cast dispel

That would be quite an improvement! I would see this more on Venatori as they're the "mages", Demons already have the annoying kockbacks and Red Templars are all range while hit harder than all other factions.

[BiggyDX]

If only there was a creature that could cast dispel

 

Oh boy 

[Apl_Juice]

Lego: Inherent Payback Strike-effect and perhaps taunts attached to more of his abilities.

Katari: Knockdown on hit instead of guard on hit. 

Reaver: Stacking mechanic for strings of kills that send you into a crit frenzy

Templar: I dunno. Ability to break Mage doors via Dispel, I guess? lol.

 

Archer: Opportunity Knocks >.>

Assassin: Nothing comes to mind, perhaps movement speed? Eh.

Alchemist: Flasks of Fire and Ice by default, useable from potion menu. Ability to break Warrior doors via explosions.

Hunter: Inherent Griffon Bow effect for any equipped weapon, more attack speed.

 

Keeper: Small damage buff when Barrier absorbs hits, but only works on teammates.

Elementalist: Slight damage buff when spells of the same element equipped. Slight CD buff when spells of different elements equipped.

Necromancer: Edit: Fear does damage over time.

Arcane Warrior: Has plenty already.

[Theghostof_timmy]

I'm not saying losing 1000 HP Barrier won't make a dent, but it's not as bad as it looks. That Barrier decays at 10%/second (in reality it's 8.5% but let's keep it simple) so that 1000 HP is only 100 HP/second all things considered. 100 HP is nothing, the nerf won't effect Barrier a lot. There sure will be times where your Barrier melts, but that's gonna be the player's fault for standing out in the open ready to be shot by 10+ archers...

As for Guard, BLuke said "twice as effective" so in that context 200% means "3 times as effective". I'm pretty sure you knew it, I'm just clarifying it up for other people reading it. I hope it's not just gonna be a 50% total HP boost for Guard, because that would be just a half measure. It needs to be twice as effective in all situations, meaning not only the base Guard total, but also all the means to generate Guard, including weapons and such.

Finally, for the Virtuoso... The Barrier nerf won't impact him as much either. A level 1 Virtuoso can keep Barrier up on Perilous 95% of the time. You don't need to be full Barrier, only keeping a sliver up is enough to keep your teammates alive and well. I see Virtoso trying to keep max Barrier and they fail at low level because they don't maximize their mana. A Barrier helps a lot, but it shouldn't be an excuse to make yourself the target of 20+ angry enemies either. Considering a fully upgraded Barrier of 4000 HP nerfed at 2800 HP (30% nerf), that you get only a 20% Barrier per casting (560 HP) and the decay is about 5.525%/second with Knight Protector (147 HP/sec), it means the nerf is 26.25% for the first cast, but only 13.125% if you cast it twice in the same second, even less if cast 3 times. And it's all with a big 30% nerf, if it's only 20% then the numbers would be even lower and by more than 10% because of the relative effectiveness.

In any case, I think you're right it's gonna affect the Virtuoso more than the Keeper, but I don't think it will make a noticeable difference in-game. And you might also be right for A Little Knight Music, it might become much more useful with new armors but so will be Guard so I guess it's a win-win situation. More build options is more variety which brings more fun.

At the very least, the barrier nerf WILL punish people for standing in the open. Right now, as long as you stand next to a virtuoso you will never, ever die, unless he gets knockdown spammed or something.

If only there was a creature that could cast dispel

Arrgh the suspense is killing me!