52 réponses à ce sujet

[konfeta]

What's the consensus here? Which ones do people prefer?

 

 

Staff

Seems pretty easy, Dragon Staff has higher base damage and more overall % attack/crit chance/heal on kill total than the T3 blade/grips can give. Though the upgradable staffs can get more Heal on Kill or Crit Chance at expense of damage (and some staves utility via Fury of the Veil or Mindchill).

 

That said, seems like if you want to do caster damage, Dragon Staff is an easy, easy winner. Plus I believe Barrier value is based off staff damage, so it wins there as well, right?

 

 

 

1H

Caliban and Sword of the Dragon seem remarkably close. The main difference is +8% crit chance on Dragon vs. 7% more heal on kill and 5% extra damage per 8 meters thing.

 

If I had to guess, Legionaire wants Dragon due to being tankier and Templar wants Caliban for bigger wombo combo? Though I suppose once you have enough cunning from promotions, Caliban becomes strictly better.

 

 

 

2H

Greatsword of the Dragon, Maul of the Dragon, Sulevin.

 

Seems fairly simple. Maul of the Dragon for disgusting damage, Sulevin for utility of the proc. Seems like a fair choice depending on group composition? Not sure what the point of the Greatsword there as it lacks upgrade slots so Maul blows it out of the water.

 

 

 

Bow

Seems extremely promotion/gear dependent. Bow of the Dragon has great all around stats, but Punched by the Maker and Cruel Redemption can have 31% crit chance or 54% crit damage upgrades installed, which is insane and might overtake the base damage of the Dragon Bow if you have enough cunning promotions to feed the crit damage and enough willpower promotions to make the +42% attack bonus diluted.

 

 

 

Daggers

I actually don't know anything about dual wield mechanics in multiplayer, so no idea whats important here or how it stacks up.

[BiggyDX]

The 2H and Staff seem to be the best overall IMO. I find that a good number of these Dragon Weapons are outshined by the sheer fact that they can't be upgraded in the same capacity as other weapons (ex. Punched by the Maker). I don't even see the point of the Shield of the Dragon. My biggest issue with them is that, while they generally have good stats, there's nothing all that unique about them.

[Laforgus]

It depends really, if you have a lot of Cunning Mindchill with % damage rule over Dragon staff. Dragons's only have 25 more base damage.

 

In other hand the Super Mega Ultra OP Maul of Dragon and Longsword of Dragon can be upgraded as well, too bad that the other Dragon Weapons only get Runes to use.

 

many old Rare weapons don't get upgrades, Rebirth Blade, Wicked Grace, Grifon, Sulevin, but Punched By the Maker and Caliban get a so you can put +36% heal on kill or +21% attack, +11% critical chance on these babies.

 

The possibilities are numerous and raw damage is not the true important factor on this game. Stats are.

[Kalas Magnus]

cruel redemption bow is the clear winner. i think.

82% crit damage.

 

the daggers is dragon dagger+audacity.

[Innarra]

Kind of aggravating that after waiting 6 months for new items, some of them aren't as powerful as gear I've had for 5 months, simply by giving them the T3 upgrades that can't go into the new Dragon items.

[Drasca]

Higher base damage wins. Eos.

[konfeta]

It depends really, if you have a lot of Cunning Mindchill with % damage rule over Dragon staff. Dragons's only have 25 more base damage.

Well, let's seee.... assuming super duper no life 100% crit chance promote nerd. Base crit damage is +50% bonus iirc.

 

According to this https://docs.google....1#gid=932518926

 

It's 81 vs 66 base damage, so +22.3% damage.

 

Dragon has 41% attack, Mindchill has 16% attack and 15% crit damage. With the best grip/blade I that can be crafted, +9/9 leather/metal slots, that's 16 + 15.75 = 31.75% attack and 15 + 27 = 42% crit damage.

 

Dragon is now 81 * 1.41 * 1.5 = 171 per raw hit.

Mindchill is now 66 * 1.3175 * 1.92 = 166 raw per hit.

 

Thing is, if you equip double crit damage purple rings (+40% crit damage), their raw damage pre-% attack increase is now almost identical.

 

Dragon is now 81 * 1.9 = 153.9 per raw hit.

Mindchill is now 66 * 2.32 = 153.12 raw per hit.

 

But Dragon has that 10% more attack bonus. So it will pretty much always be better. If there were 2 double offensive leather slot blade/grip, Mindchill would win, though.

[Ploidz]

Wow didn't know Maul of the Dragon having upgrade slots wasn't the norm for the dragon items. I'm very happy I got that one now.

[konfeta]

Applying the 100% crit cunning promotion meganerd logic to bows... Dragon seems to win again. Though, this is only true at low % attack value (i.e. low promotions). If one were to nolife properly and stack hundreds of willpower promotions, Bow of Cruel Redemption would become the best, followed by Maker, followed by Dragon. This 54% crit damage bow grip is hella strong.

 

Like, if we go all out on crit damage, i.e. +40% from rings, +10% from amulet, about +20% from passives, that's...

 

Dragon = 171 * 2.2 = 376 before % attack

Maker = 151 * 2.74 = 413 before % attack

Redemption = 143 * 3.01 = 430 before % attack

 

Dragon only wins here because it has +40% attack to push its low base/crit multiplier above the other two bows.

 

But, meh, I think Drasca summarized it right. For almost all players (i.e. low promotion level, don't have every single purple acessory in the game), Dragon weapons are better if you are looking at raw damage.

 

Caliban vs Dragon Longsword is the only exception because their base damage is basically equal against a single target due to Caliban's special trait, and then Caliban wins out as you get more enemies involved.

 

Dragonbow vs Punched by the Maker might be another exception depending on how much DPS % crit chance adds at low promotions, but too lazy to do math that now. Like, especially on Archer, where crit chance = even more effective DPS due to cooldown reduction on crits shenanigans. And then there is the % armor penetration and the walking bomb proc.

[OutlawJT]

I really can't phathom why anyone likes the dragon maul. Yes, it's stats are uber-awesome and you can upgrade it. What does that matter when I get hit seven times by the enemy before I can strike something even once? 'But the Reaver only uses abilities so the attack speed doesn't matter' you say? Fine, except that you have to use basic attacks to get the massive heal on hit to pop on Rampage. With how slow the maul is, Rampage (Reaver's 2nd best ability) is useless because you take damage faster than you swing. I have the greatsword and the maul. I've played the Reaver with both of them. The Reaver using the greatsword survived a LOT longer. I will concede that this observation is based on Perilous play and I don't have a HoK ring yet. I'd also add that at least two of the 2H warriors have a passive that restores stamina on each hit and the greatsword hits much more often, meaning more stamina meaning more ability usage.

[Kalas Magnus]

I really can't phathom why anyone likes the dragon maul. Yes, it's stats are uber-awesome and you can upgrade it. What does that matter when I get hit seven times by the enemy before I can strike something even once? 'But the Reaver only uses abilities so the attack speed doesn't matter' you say? Fine, except that you have to use basic attacks to get the massive heal on hit to pop on Rampage. With how slow the maul is, Rampage (Reaver's 2nd best ability) is useless because you take damage faster than you swing. I have the greatsword and the maul. I've played the Reaver with both of them. The Reaver using the greatsword survived a LOT longer. I will concede that this observation is based on Perilous play and I don't have a HoK ring yet. I'd also add that at least two of the 2H warriors have a passive that restores stamina on each hit and the greatsword hits much more often, meaning more stamina meaning more ability usage.

its great on the avvar

[Cryos_Feron]

.

[Drasca]

Well, let's seee.... assuming super duper no life 100% crit chance promote nerd. Base crit damage is +50% bonus iirc.

 

Mindchill would win, though.

 

Base is 40%

 

It would not. You forget all the damage multipliers are affected by base damage, whereas specialty weapons may only have their individual damage multipliers affect a lower base damage.

 

I could list everything and prove mathematically for every skill how everything interacts. . .  but you can do it yourself here and in-game.

 

The end result is highest base damage is best outside of very narrow situations where you need some other special effect.

 

For example, Off-hand daggers Audacity on Duelist is extremely niche situation where the base damage of Audacity isn't used because the Duelist doesn't rely on off-hand auto-attack damage or off-hand damage for lethal attacks. Caliban is the other one, because there's a very negligible difference in base damage on Dragon Longsword, but very big difference in special effects (5% damage per enemy in 8m on Caliban). Axe of the Dragon Hunter is still nice too, but is no longer top tier with the appearance of T3 upgrades on the Dragon Maul.

 

There are some comparisons for mid tier weapons vs other mid tier, but end-game chase weapons? Go with the highest base damage (currently dragon) outside of some special need (Caliban, off-hand audacity).

 

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

 

its great on the avvar

 

And the Reaver (Dragon Rage), and the Katari (Charge, Mighty Blow, Pommel Strike).. oh wait, that's ALL the 2H warriors and their primary attacks.

[Kalas Magnus]

 

And the Reaver (Dragon Rage), and the Katari (Charge, Mighty Blow, Pommel Strike).. oh wait, that's ALL the 2H warriors and their primary attacks.

yes.

[Drasca]

 you have to use basic attacks to get the massive heal on hit to pop on Rampage.

 

You don't. Upgraded War-horn does damage, and while Rampage is up, will damage & hit, thus heal per enemy within its 8m range. Usually to full health. Devour is also useful early on by-passing maul's attack speed. Mighty blow, while slow, can also be used for an AoE rampage heal.

 

 

I don't have a HoK ring yet. I'd also add that at least two of the 2H warriors have a passive that restores stamina on each hit and the greatsword hits much more often, meaning more stamina meaning more ability usage.

 

While I do recommend GS for Avvar on players that don't have Stamina Amulet, you should purchase Warrior/Rogue Chests this weekend, and try to get one.

[Cryos_Feron]

I can confirm what was said about bows.

can anyone elaborate on the Daggers again? I am still desperately waiting for the Dragon dagger and use the wicked grace + agony at the moment.

btw, are you really sure that attack % is applied AFTER the crit % dmg?

[Shevy]

I don't have any of the high-end purples in MP, but based on excessive stats/weapon modifications testing in SP base damage nearly wins every time. Unless they changed something in the maths since january when I did the tests - which I doubt.

 

Only exception I see is Caliban because it's only one itemlevel under the Dragon weapon and negotiates this small disadvantage with its special ability.

 

@Cryos_Feron:

attack% is always added as last basic positive mulitplier - so yes. after critical damage multiplier.

[Drasca]

btw, are you really sure that attack % is applied AFTER the crit % dmg?

 

You are severely lacking knowledge of how this works. Read up here:

 

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

[Cryos_Feron]

You are severely lacking knowledge of how this works. Read up here:

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

hey sorry but this was a simple question for a yes or no.

I tried to read this but actually I don't want to become an expert, just know which one comes first.
and I did not find this line.

generally speaking,
what would be very helpful is one COMPLETE damage example (without heavy abbreviations, including barrier, guard, armor, etc. )

in the list there are only sections (barrier section, a guard paragraph, etc. aren't there?)

I would even go as far to say that such a complete example would be as informative as (or even more)
than the whole long text.

given that the words stand in brackets behind the numbers, not too much abbreviated)

[Drasca]

generally speaking,

 

No. This varies too much from skill to skill, and situation. You either need to be an expert, and do the math work or admit ignorance and failure to judge correctly. It is not wrong to admit ignorance, but it is wrong to presume you understand something with very limited knowledge when the full work is available.

[Cryos_Feron]

.

[BraveLToaster]

I can confirm what was said about bows.

can anyone elaborate on the Daggers again? I am still desperately waiting for the Dragon dagger and use the wicked grace + agony at the moment.

btw, are you really sure that attack % is applied AFTER the crit % dmg?

The sizable base damage hike was a nice improvement for me over the Wicked Grace I had been using, Dragon+Audacity on my Isabela now.

[Drasca]

Dragon+Audacity on my Isabela now.

 

Do this combo because explosions.

[Jackyl]

I really can't phathom why anyone likes the dragon maul. Yes, it's stats are uber-awesome and you can upgrade it. What does that matter when I get hit seven times by the enemy before I can strike something even once? 'But the Reaver only uses abilities so the attack speed doesn't matter' you say? Fine, except that you have to use basic attacks to get the massive heal on hit to pop on Rampage. With how slow the maul is, Rampage (Reaver's 2nd best ability) is useless because you take damage faster than you swing. I have the greatsword and the maul. I've played the Reaver with both of them. The Reaver using the greatsword survived a LOT longer. I will concede that this observation is based on Perilous play and I don't have a HoK ring yet. I'd also add that at least two of the 2H warriors have a passive that restores stamina on each hit and the greatsword hits much more often, meaning more stamina meaning more ability usage.

L2targetlock
L2attackcancel
Win

The passive restores stamina for hitting multiple enemies at once, not on hit. Granted maul is single target, but on reaver it won't matter because dragon rage is aoe and doesn't cost stamina.

[TheThirdRace]

Upgraded War-horn does damage, and while Rampage is up, will damage & hit, thus heal per enemy within its 8m range. Usually to full health.

Wait what!!!!

Did I read it right? War-Horn can be used to heal yourself while Dragon Rage is up?