150 réponses à ce sujet

[sim-ran]

No, it's not ambiguous. it's not a theory. it was done that way as a cliffhanger. Flemeth is dead not the dread wolf.

Oh don't be so daft.

What's not ambiguous is that a mystical elven god did some weird magical transfer sucky thing on another elven god.

We don't really know what abilities these so called elven gods have, we don't know what exactly it is that was transferred, and the person that looked dead at the end is someone we've seen killed and resurrected before.

What we actually saw and the ramifications to come are far from clear.

[MACharlie1]

Nooooo! Flemeth! ;'c

Flemeth's body - at least the one that we see - is gone. Very true. Do recall that the Warden also stuck a sword in Flemeth's corpse. 

 

Therefore, I doubt Flemeth is dead. Because she can be seen sending something through the Eluvian (regardless of taking the Old God from Kieran) it's highly likely if not probable that she is sending a fragment of herself adrift like she does with Hawke. 

 

As for the question if she lied about the soul not being forced upon the unwilling. It IS true that thus far we have not seen a single abomination take over a body that the host wasn't willing. As for Morrigan - yes - she DID know that if she drank from the Well that she would be bound to the goddess Mythal. The fact that it was Flemeth was inconsequential. It was willing regardless of the absence of information. 

[leaguer of one]

Oh don't be so daft.

What's not ambiguous is that a mystical elven god did some weird magical transfer sucky thing on another elven god.

We don't really know what abilities these so called elven gods have, we don't know what exactly it is that was transferred, and the person that looked dead at the end is someone we've seen killed and resurrected before.

What we actually saw and the ramifications to come are far from clear.

Sorry but....

..Makes it not a theory

[sim-ran]

You know that picture shows the dread wolf standing over a slain dragon, not the dread wolf slaying the dragon right?! Given that there are hintsbat a close and positive relation to the two this could be a picture recounting the dread wolf mourning/finding/reacting to the slain Mythal.

If I were drawing a wolf killing a dragon I wouldn't show a wolf standing over a dead dragon with a SWORD in its neck! Since when do wolves use swords?...

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Flemeth is just an old hag who talks too much. I wish we got another boss fight with her. Could've use that extra exp.

[zambingo]

Sorry but....

..Makes it not a theory

The painting can simply be a display of intention rather than success. Not that I fully subscribe to Solas lost. Sim-Ran made a fair point too.

[In Exile]

The painting can simply be a display of intention rather than success. Not that I fully subscribe to Solas lost. Sim-Ran made a fair point too.

 

That doesn't work given the other frescos he paints for the Inquisitor's story. 

[Lethaya]

I wouldn't say Mythal is dead so certainly, no matter what theory you buy in to. Flemeth, perhaps. Mythal? Seems hard to kill a god, especially one that's already dead. And survived murder in the past. XD

 

Sorry but....

..Makes it not a theory

 

Expanding on zambingo's point - Solas would have started this section before he left, and presumably before he met with Flemeth. Thus, if she turned what he was doing back around on him, as some people theorize, the fresco would be innacurate. Solas would have left this behind as he intended to betray Flemeth, thinking he had the upper hand, when she was the one who would up dominating him or whatever.

 

Basically, it's a biased depiction.

 

Also I've seen people interpret this section as the Quizzy's dragon and the archdemon. It kinda of works - Morrigan and Flemeth's dragon look a lot different than the archdemon, and that would be represted here. The would-be horns, the belly scales, the back curving upwards like potential wings... It'd also make sense with the sword, since it's killed not only by Morrigan/Flemeth's dragon, but the Inquisitor's party as well. And that was the plan going into the final confrontation, after all. Use their dragon to weaken Cory's, and ultimately defeat it. So it would make sense for Solas to begin depicting that event.

 

Whereas, the orb breaking was not something Solas foresaw happening, obviously, and it seems like the ultimate fate of the orb was the entire reason he needed to meet with Flemythal and do whatever. She was his backup, a backup he resorting to taking ony after certain events took place, and after one would assume the work pictured above was started.

 

If any of that makes any sense at all. XD
 

[SwobyJ]

Who cares if Flemeth died?

 

What matters is if Mythal lived on. And I think she did. And joined with Flemeth, we may get Flemeth back. That body was a vessel, and the spirit is moved to something else ('Solas').

 

Ah I'll just say it - Its about Morrigan now and she'll gain Mythal's power, I bet. She'll accept it, not fight or run away from it.

[leaguer of one]

You know that picture shows the dread wolf standing over a slain dragon, not the dread wolf slaying the dragon right?! Given that there are hintsbat a close and positive relation to the two this could be a picture recounting the dread wolf mourning/finding/reacting to the slain Mythal.

If I were drawing a wolf killing a dragon I wouldn't show a wolf standing over a dead dragon with a SWORD in its neck! Since when do wolves use swords?...

The wolf has it's sharp teeth open over the dead dragon. Also, in elven lore wolves are only indicated for the dread wolf....Who painted the fresco. Sorry but this is not a wolf morning over the dragon. It's teeth would not be bare. Added with what happen latter it clear what this pic is about.

[leaguer of one]

The painting can simply be a display of intention rather than success. Not that I fully subscribe to Solas lost. Sim-Ran made a fair point too.

 

I wouldn't say Mythal is dead so certainly, no matter what theory you buy in to. Flemeth, perhaps. Mythal? Seems hard to kill a god, especially one that's already dead. And survived murder in the past. XD

 

 

Expanding on zambingo's point - Solas would have started this section before he left, and presumably before he met with Flemeth. Thus, if she turned what he was doing back around on him, as some people theorize, the fresco would be innacurate. Solas would have left this behind as he intended to betray Flemeth, thinking he had the upper hand, when she was the one who would up dominating him or whatever.

 

Basically, it's a biased depiction.

 

Also I've seen people interpret this section as the Quizzy's dragon and the archdemon. It kinda of works - Morrigan and Flemeth's dragon look a lot different than the archdemon, and that would be represted here. The would-be horns, the belly scales, the back curving upwards like potential wings... It'd also make sense with the sword, since it's killed not only by Morrigan/Flemeth's dragon, but the Inquisitor's party as well. And that was the plan going into the final confrontation, after all. Use their dragon to weaken Cory's, and ultimately defeat it. So it would make sense for Solas to begin depicting that event.

 

Whereas, the orb breaking was not something Solas foresaw happening, obviously, and it seems like the ultimate fate of the orb was the entire reason he needed to meet with Flemythal and do whatever. She was his backup, a backup he resorting to taking ony after certain events took place, and after one would assume the work pictured above was started.

 

If any of that makes any sense at all. XD
 

 It can't be force. So Flemeth can't just force it on him. But it's been show that the soul or spirit can be taken by force. She can't turn it around.

[9TailsFox]

You do understand that the power she puts in the mirror is for Morrigan.

Yes I read something, someone copied from somewhere and say it's developers notes. So what I say it's true Flemythal send her soul to Morrigan. And gives power to Solas willingly. And writers can easy change something.

Spoiler

Designer's Notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.

[zambingo]

That doesn't work given the other frescos he paints for the Inquisitor's story.

Sure it does. He paints the outcome, but unless he sneaks back in post-game this drawing is what he planned or knew the out come to be... not was. What was could be anything. More probable than not it is what is is however. XD

[leaguer of one]

Sure it does. He paints the outcome, but unless he sneaks back in post-game this drawing is what he planned or knew the out come to be... not was. What was could be anything. More probable than not it is what is is however. XD

Again. Flemeth has no way to turn it around with her coming on top based on what happened. She can't force her Soul on others and she made it clear it can be taken away by force with what she does with Urthemiel.  The only way she can come on top is if she stop the transfer from happening....Which does not happen.

[zambingo]

It can't be force. So Flemeth can't just force it on him. But it's been show that the soul or spirit can be taken by force. She can't turn it around.

Except that he wanted the power. If he wanted the power, perhaps he has fooled himself... he's willing. Maybe that's why Flemeth says sorry back.

Again not that I subscribe to this but the way to see it is fair.

To paraquote Aladdin, "You wanted phenomenal cosmic power? Well you got it. And everything that comes with it. Including an itty bitty living space."

[c0bra951]

Yes I read something, someone copied from somewhere and say it's developers notes. So what I say it's true Flemythal send her soul to Morrigan. And gives power to Solas willingly. And writers can easy change something.

Spoiler

Designer's Notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.

 

Thanks for that.  That final scene makes it clear to me that Fen'Harel had his way with Mythal.  Whatever that means is not entirely clear; but these notes present a consistent explanation for what happened visually.

[leaguer of one]

Except that he wanted the power. If he wanted the power, perhaps he has fooled himself... he's willing. Maybe that's why Flemeth says sorry back.

Again not that I subscribe to this but the way to see it is fair.

To paraquote Aladdin, "You wanted phenomenal cosmic power? Well you got it. And everything that comes with it. Including an itty bitty living space."

It clear he wants the power. No one is say he does not want it. The point is being that he is an elven god, he can take the power by force. Mythal is a wispier of what she was.He can force it from her.

Possession does not always equal to control. That's based on the persons will and wants.

[zambingo]

They may have once been equals or one above the other, but all indications plus Behind-the-Scenes notations show that Solas is at present not near the level of power that Flemeth was. There are no clear signs he is strong enough to take anything from her that she isn't just actually giving to him. Like a child who believes they have won a foot race against their parent, when actually the parent allowed it to occur because the child needed the win.

[leaguer of one]

They may have once been equals or one above the other, but all indications plus Behind-the-Scenes notations show that Solas is at present not near the level of power that Flemeth was. There are no clear signs he is strong enough to take anything from her that she isn't just actually giving to him. Like a child who believes they have won a foot race against their parent, when actually the parent allowed it to occur because the child needed the win.

Key note on was. Flemeth in dai is not that powerful. She's only powerful in the fade. Solas is only not powerful enough to on lock the foci. That does not mean he is not powerful at all.

But do not the Flemeth did intend to be there and knew Solas was going to kill her.

[Lethaya]

He's also not powerful enough to take out Cory on his own, hence needing the Inquisition's help. But I digress.

 

Personally I think she gave in, so it doesn't really matter, though. XD I rank them at similair powerful levels. Flemeth is pretty powerful, but she's a shadow of what Mythal originally was. Similairly, Solas is a declined version of his old godly self. Or he was, anyways, who knows what he is now.

 

And I don't think zambingo said she didn't intend to be there, or that she didn't know what Solas intended? Just that, if she was more powerful, she gave in to him anyways because she knew he needed what she could offer. That she gave him her power, rather than him taking it from her. Might be wrong, though.

[leaguer of one]

He's also not powerful enough to take out Cory on his own, hence needing the Inquisition's help. But I digress.

 

Personally I think she gave in, so it doesn't really matter, though. XD I rank them at similair powerful levels. Flemeth is pretty powerful, but she's a shodow of what Mythal originally was. Similairly, Solas is a declined version of his old godly self. Or he was, anyways, who knows what he is now.

 

And I don't think zambingo said she didn't intend to be there, or that she didn't know what Solas intended? Just that, if she was more powerful, she gave in to him anyways because she knew he needed what she could offer. That she gave him her power, rather than him taking it from her. Might be wrong, though.

Actually, nothing says he's not powerful enough. Remember, he planned to take the foci after Cory on locked it. The unexpected explosion stopped that from happening. He joined the inquisition to close the breach and take the foci back form Cory.

[9TailsFox]

Again. Flemeth has no way to turn it around with her coming on top based on what happened. She can't force her Soul on others and she made it clear it can be taken away by force with what she does with Urthemiel.  The only way she can come on top is if she stop the transfer from happening....Which does not happen.

Except from what I saw Kieran give Urthemiel soul willingly. And from what I read you think like Flemeth just some stupid old hag, when in fact she as smart as Solas if not smarter. And other fact in game files orb called "orb_mythal".

[Jackums]

Yes I read something, someone copied from somewhere and say it's developers notes. So what I say it's true Flemythal send her soul to Morrigan. And gives power to Solas willingly. And writers can easy change something.

Spoiler

Designer's Notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.

This is legit?

 

OK, that's f**king awesome. And makes perfect sense of the post-epilogue scene. 

[9TailsFox]

Sorry but....

..Makes it not a theory

[leaguer of one]

Except from what I saw Kieran give Urthemiel soul willingly. And from what I read you think like Flemeth just some stupid old hag, when in fact she as smart as Solas if not smarter. And other fact in game files orb called "orb_mythal".

Nothing really shows Kieran had a choice in it. In fact he was surprised by it. And I'm not looking down or degrading Flemeth, I'm just pointing out she is not as powerful as she was. The fact remain the only way to turn it around on Solas was to make it not happen. Solas is not one to break under anyone's will.