150 réponses à ce sujet

[Urzon]

Dude, he's still that. He tricks the entire Inquisition, Morrigan into drinking from the well, Cory, and everyone he's met since introing this game. He is still a trickster.

I wouldn't say that him withholding information from the Inquisition isn't the same as tricking them. He lied by omission to better fit in, but the Inquisition was using him for his information just as much as he was using them for their resources. They had a common goal in closing the Breach and stopping Cory. There was no need for "tricking" on anyone's part.

Even if he did tell them he was one of the elven gods, I kinda doubt they would really believe him either. Where's his godly powers? Oh, he's weakened because of his extended nap? That's convenient. Lost knowledge of the past? Unverifiable. His reported home turned out to be an old elven ruin? Obviously lied. They would have probably labeled him an extremely intelligent well-mannered but obviously crazy elf.

I'm not sure I would say he tricked Cory either. Solas was gullible enough to hand Cory an artifact of immense power, and he excepted him to hand it right back after unlocking it. If anyone was tricked, it was Solas in that situation. So yes, the trickster can be tricked.

[leaguer of one]

So you what expect him to come and say "Hi my name if Fen'Harel I responsible for hole in the sky please help me fix it" Cassandra would go nuts. And Leliana is incompetent.

1. The last thing I would describe leliana as the spy master is incompetent. More like....Scary as hell.

 

2.My point is that he tricked everyone he met. Calling him the trickster god has merit. He did seal way all the elven gods.

[leaguer of one]

I wouldn't say that him withholding information from the Inquisition isn't the same as tricking them. He lied by omission to better fit in, but the Inquisition was using him for his information just as much as he was using them for their resources. They had a common goal in closing the Breach and stopping Cory. There was no need for "tricking" on anyone's part.

Even if he did tell them he was one of the elven gods, I kinda doubt they would really believe him either. Where's his godly powers? Oh, he's weakened because of his extended nap? That's convenient. Lost knowledge of the past? Unverifiable. His reported home turned out to be an old elven ruin? Obviously lied. They would have probably labeled him an extremely intelligent well-mannered but obviously crazy elf.

I'm not sure I would say he tricked Cory either. Solas was gullible enough to hand Cory an artifact of immense power, and he excepted him to hand it right back after unlocking it. If anyone was tricked, it was Solas in that situation. So yes, the trickster can be tricked.

Yes, it's tricking them A lie of omission is trickery. plain and simple. And his goal was to get the foci back. Plenty of trickery need for that.

 

And yes i would call it trickery with Cory. If he had a plan to give it to him he did have one to get it back.

[zambingo]

Trickster, Rebel, liar by omission... debating which is right (ignoring all can be), analyzing Solas's actions in order to tag him is an exercise in semantics.

With that said, and always remembering opinions are opinions, thinking Leliana is incompetent because someone can get something by her is a flawed argument. Leliana can be competent and someone getting something by her just means that person is also skilled. One thing doesn't invalidate the other necessarily. Competency doesn't require infallibility.

[leaguer of one]

Trickster, Rebel, liar by omission... debating which is right (ignoring all can be), analyzing Solas's actions in order to tag him is an exercise in semantics.

With that said, and always remembering opinions are opinions, thinking Leliana is incompetent because someone can get something by her is a flawed argument. Leliana can be competent and someone getting something by her just means that person is also skilled. One thing doesn't invalidate the other necessarily.

I'm not say that He's not all these thing but you have to admit he deceived people.

[9TailsFox]

1. The last thing I would describe leliana as the spy master is incompetent. More like....Scary as hell.

 

2.My point is that he tricked everyone he met. Calling him the trickster god has merit. He did seal way all the elven gods.

Are you sure? It's elven tales witch have like 5% of true. Solas is trickster god same as Flemth is god of motherhud. Well she raised Morrigan so it's true. Blackwall lie it doesn't make him god of lies. Everyone lies and trick.

[SwobyJ]

This is legit?

 

OK, that's f**king awesome. And makes perfect sense of the post-epilogue scene. 

 

If this is true then its nice to be 100% right.

[leaguer of one]

Are you sure? It's elven tales witch have like 5% of true. Solas is trickster god same as Flemth is god of motherhud. Well she raised Morrigan so it's true. Blackwall lie it doesn't make him god of lies. Everyone lies and trick.

Blackwall's case was that there was nothing around to prove he was lying. The only people she could use as a reference for him were with the wardens who disappeared. Added, he's is disguise and kept away from the places people would know him from.  And Grey wardens are her blind spot. That does not mean she's inept....

This is not inept.

 

And you can't deny that Solas deceived everyone he met in dai so much that there was nothing to proved he deceived anyone till he left

[9TailsFox]

If this is true then its nice to be 100% right.

David Gaider Maker made post in this topic so this developers note can be all true or all wrong depends on what writers will do in future.

[ApostleinTriumph]

Good discussion on this thread. By the way, does anyone remember Solas' reaction to being offered to drink from the Well of Sorrows? He said something like "No, and don't even ask me that again." He was really sharp about it, I guess he knew how that would affect his plans.

[NickyBarb]

Good discussion on this thread. By the way, does anyone remember Solas' reaction to being offered to drink from the Well of Sorrows? He said something like "No, and don't even ask me that again." He was really sharp about it, I guess he knew how that would affect his plans.

That part actually made me laugh. I knew it was foolish to even ask him, but I did anyway just to ****** him off.

[zambingo]

I'm not say that He's not all these thing but you have to admit he deceived people.

I don't think I denied he did. :-)

[SwobyJ]

David Gaider Maker made post in this topic so this developers not can be all true or all wrong depends on what writers will do in future.

 

It can be 100% true at a point and that's all I care about. Writers and devs can do whatever they want now/later on, I don't care.

[Kakistos_]

It looked to me like the Old God Soul and Flemeth's Soul went through the Eluvian. I didn't see anything transfered to Solas. His eyes glowing doesn't necessarily mean that he gained anything, he could have just been angry and was capable of that all along. And remember that 'piece' of Flemeth from DA2? She said she was just one piece of a greater whole. I doubt we have seen the last of her.

[9TailsFox]

Good discussion on this thread. By the way, does anyone remember Solas' reaction to being offered to drink from the Well of Sorrows? He said something like "No, and don't even ask me that again." He was really sharp about it, I guess he knew how that would affect his plans.

He said it because most likely he know exactly what Well f Sorrows is. I doubt it's his first time in this place.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I've seen a lot of people on this forum claim that Flemeth says a soul can't be forced on the unwilling, which given what happens with Solas leads some claim she was lying.

Solas looks willing to me.

[Dai Grepher]

You're kidding right?

http://dragonage.wik...x_entry:_Solas 

"Inquisitor,

Despite my efforts, I have been unable to locate Solas. From the site of your battle withCorypheus, he was last seen headed west, still distraught over the destruction of the orbCorypheus carried. From there he disappeared, evading my people so easily and so completely that I am forced to wonder how much he knew about them.

When Solas initially approached the Inquisition and offered aid, I questioned him extensively about his background and history. He was evasive, but he did give the name of the village where he grew up, noting that it was small, unlikely to appear on any map.

I hate loose ends, so I kept a few of my agents searching, to verify his story. They recently located the village... or what remains of it. It is a ruin, as it has been for centuries, its name preserved only in degraded form in Ancient Tevinter mysteries. Whoever Solas truly is, wherever he came from, he has deceived us from the very start.

I apologize for not investigating this more thoroughly while Solas was here. He was clearly helping us, and other matters were of greater urgency, but it was an oversight nevertheless, given how little he shared with us. It is not clear what his plans are, if any, but I will continue to search.

Leliana"

 

He tricked everyone in the inquisition. Heck, right now no one knows he's the one responsible for giving the orb to Cory. he does not lie but he does trick with half truths and reflective responses with everything but the source of his info. and yes, he tricked Cory. The only reason his planned fail because the inquisitor got involved, not because Cory saw through it and worked around it.

 

That isn't a trick. That's just a lie. A trick is making the Inquisition do something it thinks will result in something good for it, only to find out, SURPRISE! It wasn't what was expected! Like how Solas tricked The Iron Bull at mind chess.

 

From the start the custom character and Solas had mutual goals. 1. Survive. Solas saves your life, and you save the world from the Breach. 2. Find the one who caused the Breach. Done when he finds you. 3. Defeat the villain. Done many times over. 4. Find the orb and preserve it. Ehh... sure Solas, we'll try to preserve it. Final battle. Whoops. Sorry Solas.

 

Yeah, I don't see Solas tricking the Inquisitor. In fact, I was suspicious of him the whole time. When he said something along the lines of, "Closing the Breach is our top priority, but we should also find the relic that caused it in the first place," I thought to myself, what relic? Did I miss some storyline here? Who said anything about a relic opening the Breach? Did Anders have a relic when he blew up the Chantry? I didn't have an option to question him about it though. Then during Haven Cory shows up with, what do you know, a relic. And then Solas suddenly knows what it is. How does he know? He learned it from the Fade. Ya mean the Fade he said can't be trusted sometimes because the Fade is like memories, subject to errors and manipulation? Hmm. Again, the game doesn't allow us to question him. Same thing with the Well of Sorrows. I asked if he would drink from the Well, since he seems to be so interested in ancient knowledge and elven lore. He angrily refuses. Whoa. Okay. And yet... can't question him later about it. Hmmm.

 

And yes, Leliana is incompetent. Being able to observe things on a sister's robe doesn't make her competent. The Iron Bull was capable of doing the same thing. Leliana should have sat Solas down and said, "I know you're smart and know how to read a map. Point to your place of origin on this map of Thedas." She messed up at Haven, she messed up on Blackwall, she messed up at Halamshiral, and there were a ton of Chore Table missions that had her making some abominable suggestions. The only real bright sport was Kal'Sharok, and only because she was dealing with more unscrupulous people like her. She could also possibly screw you over in the bad future.

 

As for Solas evading Leliana's scouts, that was probably due to shape shifting. Same as what Morrigan can do to evade capture by anyone.

 

The only reason Solas even got fragments of the orb back is because the Inquisitor got involved and killed Corypheus. Remember, as much as I hate the mage arc, the bad future proves that without the Inquisitor, Corypheus wins, and Solas ends up a red-eyed loser in a Redcliffe cell.

 

About the picture you posted. Couldn't that just be a depiction of the Inquisition killing the Red Lyrium Dragon? Logically, the last panel should depict the Inquisition's victory over Corypheus. He probably started on it, then stopped because he realized finishing it before the battle might raise suspicion about him leaving as soon as it was over.

 

Lastly, on trickery, the Inquisitor even says, "There's more, isn't there?" to Solas when he examines the shattered orb. The Inquisitor knew Solas wasn't telling the whole truth.

[Dai Grepher]

So you what expect him to come and say "Hi my name if Fen'Harel I responsible for hole in the sky please help me fix it" Cassandra would go nuts. And Leliana is incompetent.

 

Yep.

 

Also, about the ending. I think Flemeth was sending her last bit of Mythal through the eluvian because the whole part of Mythal had by then left the Well of Sorrows and floated through the nearby eluvian. So Mythal lives on. Flemeth might live on as well with Mythal's help, and Morrigan or the Inquisitor may be under Mythal's compulsion. Though Flemeth might plead with Mythal not to involve Morrigan in anything that will bring her harm.

 

I think Solas went there looking to take Mythal's knowledge, perhaps killing her in the process. But I think Flemeth had sent the energy through the eluvian before Solas got there, foreseeing his arrival. The eye glow is just something the elven "gods" do. Abelas did the same thing when he was trying to destroy the Well of Sorrows. He may have been under the influence of Mythal.

[leaguer of one]

That isn't a trick. That's just a lie. A trick is making the Inquisition do something it thinks will result in something good for it, only to find out, SURPRISE! It wasn't what was expected! Like how Solas tricked The Iron Bull at mind chess.

 

From the start the custom character and Solas had mutual goals. 1. Survive. Solas saves your life, and you save the world from the Breach. 2. Find the one who caused the Breach. Done when he finds you. 3. Defeat the villain. Done many times over. 4. Find the orb and preserve it. Ehh... sure Solas, we'll try to preserve it. Final battle. Whoops. Sorry Solas.

 

Yeah, I don't see Solas tricking the Inquisitor. In fact, I was suspicious of him the whole time. When he said something along the lines of, "Closing the Breach is our top priority, but we should also find the relic that caused it in the first place," I thought to myself, what relic? Did I miss some storyline here? Who said anything about a relic opening the Breach? Did Anders have a relic when he blew up the Chantry? I didn't have an option to question him about it though. Then during Haven Cory shows up with, what do you know, a relic. And then Solas suddenly knows what it is. How does he know? He learned it from the Fade. Ya mean the Fade he said can't be trusted sometimes because the Fade is like memories, subject to errors and manipulation? Hmm. Again, the game doesn't allow us to question him. Same thing with the Well of Sorrows. I asked if he would drink from the Well, since he seems to be so interested in ancient knowledge and elven lore. He angrily refuses. Whoa. Okay. And yet... can't question him later about it. Hmmm.

 

And yes, Leliana is incompetent. Being able to observe things on a sister's robe doesn't make her competent. The Iron Bull was capable of doing the same thing. Leliana should have sat Solas down and said, "I know you're smart and know how to read a map. Point to your place of origin on this map of Thedas." She messed up at Haven, she messed up on Blackwall, she messed up at Halamshiral, and there were a ton of Chore Table missions that had her making some abominable suggestions. The only real bright sport was Kal'Sharok, and only because she was dealing with more unscrupulous people like her. She could also possibly screw you over in the bad future.

 

As for Solas evading Leliana's scouts, that was probably due to shape shifting. Same as what Morrigan can do to evade capture by anyone.

 

The only reason Solas even got fragments of the orb back is because the Inquisitor got involved and killed Corypheus. Remember, as much as I hate the mage arc, the bad future proves that without the Inquisitor, Corypheus wins, and Solas ends up a red-eyed loser in a Redcliffe cell.

 

About the picture you posted. Couldn't that just be a depiction of the Inquisition killing the Red Lyrium Dragon? Logically, the last panel should depict the Inquisition's victory over Corypheus. He probably started on it, then stopped because he realized finishing it before the battle might raise suspicion about him leaving as soon as it was over.

 

Lastly, on trickery, the Inquisitor even says, "There's more, isn't there?" to Solas when he examines the shattered orb. The Inquisitor knew Solas wasn't telling the whole truth.

1.Trick...

a. An act or procedure intended to achieve an end by deceptive or fraudulent means. 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/trick

That what Solas does with the inquisition to get the orb.

2.Sure he needs you to close the breach be he already knows who caused it and was the one to allow them to. Added,everything he does for the inquisition is a means to an end. It's all about the orb. that's why he leaves.

 

3.But he never gave much more to inquire on. We can't even get him to spill the beans.

 

4. Again, Leliana is not incompetant and does nothing to show that. And Bull is not a stealth oriented spy so he can't do everything Leli can. He can't even work the game. Not even Ironbull saw that Solas was lying. And with Black wall there is nothing to use to check up on if he's telling the truth. Sorry, but you need to point out a real time she incompetent. and yes what Leli does in the video shows she's not incompetent, the fact she find the mastermind of the spy by using indirect statement shows she's competent.

 

5.Dude, the inquisitor is icon is not a wolf. Don't even try.

 

6.No, more of the case it just an extension of the conversion they had before going to Shyhold.

[Eggpop]

And yes, Leliana is incompetent. Being able to observe things on a sister's robe doesn't make her competent. The Iron Bull was capable of doing the same thing. Leliana should have sat Solas down and said, "I know you're smart and know how to read a map. Point to your place of origin on this map of Thedas." She messed up at Haven, she messed up on Blackwall, she messed up at Halamshiral, and there were a ton of Chore Table missions that had her making some abominable suggestions. The only real bright sport was Kal'Sharok, and only because she was dealing with more unscrupulous people like her. She could also possibly screw you over in the bad future.

 

I don't know why people keeps using Solas as a 'proof' that Leliana is incompetent as a spymaster. The best she'll get from directly confronting Solas about his origin is him being an elven apostate of some mysterious mortal background (which is what Solas was claiming exactly), not an ancient demi-elven-god who basically started this breach shite because that is completely off scale of what she can handle. She also had to address to the immediate threat of Coryfish farting on Thedas, and for 3~4 years Solas' unstained service to the Inquisition did nothing that became obstacle to their task of their primary goal of: 1. closing breach, and 2. defeating Coryfish. So I can see why Leliana prioritized Coryfish instead of Solas. Same for Blackwall + what leaguer of one said. 

 

And the war table mission? The advisers basically give you the best option they can give in each mission, and it's up to the Inquisitor to use them at the appropriate situations. Leliana is not perfect in getting everything right, but each adviser can give you the best results (or the satisfying results) depending on when you use them as I clearly remember that using Leliana as the first two options in the mission involving the Lavellan clan lead me to the path that got them alive (as well as other missions in which Leliana succeeded wonderfully).

 

Also pulling back her agents at Haven doesn't exactly shows her incompetency, neither does her violent ending as the Divine (if that's the bad future you're talking about, unless it's about Redcliff in which I have no idea how you're expecting godly perfection from her). It's a subjective opinion to people. 

[Dai Grepher]

1.Trick...

a. An act or procedure intended to achieve an end by deceptive or fraudulent means. 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/trick

That what Solas does with the inquisition to get the orb.

2.Sure he needs you to close the breach be he already knows who caused it and was the one to allow them to. Added,everything he does for the inquisition is a means to an end. It's all about the orb. that's why he leaves.

 

3.But he never gave much more to inquire on. We can't even get him to spill the beans.

 

4. Again, Leliana is not incompetant and does nothing to show that. And Bull is not a stealth oriented spy so he can't do everything Leli can. He can't even work the game. Not even Ironbull saw that Solas was lying. And with Black wall there is nothing to use to check up on if he's telling the truth. Sorry, but you need to point out a real time she incompetent. and yes what Leli does in the video shows she's not incompetent, the fact she find the mastermind of the spy by using indirect statement shows she's competent.

 

5.Dude, the inquisitor is icon is not a wolf. Don't even try.

 

6.No, more of the case it just an extension of the conversion they had before going to Shyhold.

 

1. Yeah, that's the definition I wrote, but that isn't what happens in the game. Solas tried to use the Inquisition to get his orb back, but it never worked out that way. After Cory showed up with his dragon, it was clear they would not get the orb back so easily, and the orb was from that point revealed to the Inquisition. Which means Solas had to address it. From that point on, him getting the orb back would most likely be up to the discretion of the Inquisitor. And why would the Inquisitor want to give such a powerful artifact over to some elven apostate?

 

Solas may have started out trying to trick the Inquisition, but that never came to fruition. In fact, the only way he actually does trick the Inquisitor is if the Inquisitor is a female elf who enters a romance with him. He leads her along and gets close, only to break away near the end. His true feelings play a part, but that doesn't detract from fact that his ultimate goal was to have his love return the orb to him willingly. But even this trick is dropped by Solas when he decides he can't put her through that.

 

2. Well that's debatable in itself, but it makes no difference. Not sharing the truth does not equate to a trick. Leaving because his goal was not met has nothing to do with the Inquisition's alleged preconceptions about him. Even Leliana never fully trusted him, which means she was never actually tricked. She just couldn't verify his story.

 

3. Spill them or not, the fact we can remain suspicious and skeptical means he did not trick us. Also, even if you bought his story, he may have deceived you into thinking something else about him (like Blackwall), but that has nothing to do with the orb. You fail to get it back for him, and there is no scene in which you decide what to do with the orb. So there's no way of knowing what the Inquisitor would have done. So ultimately the trick of getting the orb back for him fails in this case.

 

4. She is, and I provided examples of it. I didn't write that Bull could do all the things she can, I wrote that Leliana being observant doesn't make her competent because Bull can do that too. Competence is tested in what decisions you make and how you approach problems. Leliana was terrible at both.

 

Working the game is not a measure of competence, it is a measure of deceit and low cunning. Overhearing secrets, blackmailing, bribing, framing, misleading, and speaking in circles. That is not competence. Or it is in the world of criminals, but that's not the kind we're talking about here. Bull's function is just to get secrets and pass them on inconspicuously, lying in the process, and also fighting and screwing on the side whenever possible. The Iron Bull's opinion of Solas' story is never ascertained. May he thought he was lying, maybe he didn't. Doesn't change the fact that Leliana failed in her own role.

 

5. But it's icon is a sword, and that is what is sticking out of the dragon. And it isn't a real sword, meaning a sized to scale version, it is a rather large one. So this indicates that the sword was to be symbolic of something, and had the picture been filled in more, I'm sure the sword would have depicted Andraste's hairy eyeball as well. The wolf depiction is of Solas' theme, but the wolf is also larger than the dragon and even the sword. So this might be a suggestion that the wolf is the bigger threat now, or it could mean that the wolf is closer in the foreground while the slain dragon is in the distance, and the wolf is leaving now that the job is done. Or it could be Solas' attempt at a prank, suggesting that HE (the wolf) used the Inquisition (the sword) to kill Corypheus (the dragon).

 

6. The extension of the conversation about the orb, yes, that it was more than just an elven artifact that stored power or amplified magic. Which means the Inquisitor suspected that Solas knew more about it than what he had shared.

[leaguer of one]

1. Yeah, that's the definition I wrote, but that isn't what happens in the game. Solas tried to use the Inquisition to get his orb back, but it never worked out that way. After Cory showed up with his dragon, it was clear they would not get the orb back so easily, and the orb was from that point revealed to the Inquisition. Which means Solas had to address it. From that point on, him getting the orb back would most likely be up to the discretion of the Inquisitor. And why would the Inquisitor want to give such a powerful artifact over to some elven apostate?

 

Solas may have started out trying to trick the Inquisition, but that never came to fruition. In fact, the only way he actually does trick the Inquisitor is if the Inquisitor is a female elf who enters a romance with him. He leads her along and gets close, only to break away near the end. His true feelings play a part, but that doesn't detract from fact that his ultimate goal was to have his love return the orb to him willingly. But even this trick is dropped by Solas when he decides he can't put her through that.

 

2. Well that's debatable in itself, but it makes no difference. Not sharing the truth does not equate to a trick. Leaving because his goal was not met has nothing to do with the Inquisition's alleged preconceptions about him. Even Leliana never fully trusted him, which means she was never actually tricked. She just couldn't verify his story.

 

3. Spill them or not, the fact we can remain suspicious and skeptical means he did not trick us. Also, even if you bought his story, he may have deceived you into thinking something else about him (like Blackwall), but that has nothing to do with the orb. You fail to get it back for him, and there is no scene in which you decide what to do with the orb. So there's no way of knowing what the Inquisitor would have done. So ultimately the trick of getting the orb back for him fails in this case.

 

4. She is, and I provided examples of it. I didn't write that Bull could do all the things she can, I wrote that Leliana being observant doesn't make her competent because Bull can do that too. Competence is tested in what decisions you make and how you approach problems. Leliana was terrible at both.

 

Working the game is not a measure of competence, it is a measure of deceit and low cunning. Overhearing secrets, blackmailing, bribing, framing, misleading, and speaking in circles. That is not competence. Or it is in the world of criminals, but that's not the kind we're talking about here. Bull's function is just to get secrets and pass them on inconspicuously, lying in the process, and also fighting and screwing on the side whenever possible. The Iron Bull's opinion of Solas' story is never ascertained. May he thought he was lying, maybe he didn't. Doesn't change the fact that Leliana failed in her own role.

 

5. But it's icon is a sword, and that is what is sticking out of the dragon. And it isn't a real sword, meaning a sized to scale version, it is a rather large one. So this indicates that the sword was to be symbolic of something, and had the picture been filled in more, I'm sure the sword would have depicted Andraste's hairy eyeball as well. The wolf depiction is of Solas' theme, but the wolf is also larger than the dragon and even the sword. So this might be a suggestion that the wolf is the bigger threat now, or it could mean that the wolf is closer in the foreground while the slain dragon is in the distance, and the wolf is leaving now that the job is done. Or it could be Solas' attempt at a prank, suggesting that HE (the wolf) used the Inquisition (the sword) to kill Corypheus (the dragon).

 

6. The extension of the conversation about the orb, yes, that it was more than just an elven artifact that stored power or amplified magic. Which means the Inquisitor suspected that Solas knew more about it than what he had shared.

1. I'm sorry...What? The definition is exactly what it does. The definition is not getting someone to do something by using deceit. It's deceiving someone to get to an end. How is telling everyone lies about who he is and were he is from not that? And you keep mistaking his goal. it's to get the foci. Everything else is just a mean to an end to get that.

 

2.Not sharing the truth and misleading about what going on is trickery. THAT'S NOT UP TO DEBATE.

 

3.Sorry,bit there is no option to be suspicious. You can have you character be so with out any reflection in the games story.

 

4.No, you embellished example and ignore facts.  Blackwall and Solas are not examples of incompetents. Why?  because there are no tells available to prove they are lying. And Leliana being observant of subtle detail normal people can't even see does prove she's competent. And working the game is a show of compitence. The.The entire idea of it is about out smarting, trick and misleading your oponent. You just don't do that like breathing air it takes massive planning. Every last bit of it does and skill. Sorry but it's clearly don't get how much skill it takes to do it. Sorry, being spy mast does not mean being all seeing and to even start to see Solas was lying a flaw has to be seen first. Being that this is the dread wolf ofcourse he would deceive leliana. he tricks everyone.

 

5. it's symbol is not a sword. It's a sword,eye, and fire. Never a sword alone. Try again.

 

6.but not from earlier conversations...From his reaction he's having right at the moment of it's destruction. When it would be too late to do anything if the Foci was still whole.

[Aren]

It looked to me like the Old God Soul and Flemeth's Soul went through the Eluvian. I didn't see anything transfered to Solas. His eyes glowing doesn't necessarily mean that he gained anything, he could have just been angry and was capable of that all along. And remember that 'piece' of Flemeth from DA2? She said she was just one piece of a greater whole. I doubt we have seen the last of her.

this scene plays regardless of the old god soul existence.

this imply  that the archdemon soul is not present in any way in the final scene,is just eliminated from the plot because not mandatory.

or flemeth give the soul to someone else offscreen.

[Dai Grepher]

I don't know why people keeps using Solas as a 'proof' that Leliana is incompetent as a spymaster. The best she'll get from directly confronting Solas about his origin is him being an elven apostate of some mysterious mortal background (which is what Solas was claiming exactly), not an ancient demi-elven-god who basically started this breach shite because that is completely off scale of what she can handle. She also had to address to the immediate threat of Coryfish farting on Thedas, and for 3~4 years Solas' unstained service to the Inquisition did nothing that became obstacle to their task of their primary goal of: 1. closing breach, and 2. defeating Coryfish. So I can see why Leliana prioritized Coryfish instead of Solas. Same for Blackwall + what leaguer of one said. 

 

And the war table mission? The advisers basically give you the best option they can give in each mission, and it's up to the Inquisitor to use them at the appropriate situations. Leliana is not perfect in getting everything right, but each adviser can give you the best results (or the satisfying results) depending on when you use them as I clearly remember that using Leliana as the first two options in the mission involving the Lavellan clan lead me to the path that got them alive (as well as other missions in which Leliana succeeded wonderfully).

 

Also pulling back her agents at Haven doesn't exactly shows her incompetency, neither does her violent ending as the Divine (if that's the bad future you're talking about, unless it's about Redcliff in which I have no idea how you're expecting godly perfection from her). It's a subjective opinion to people. 

 

Because she didn't question him enough and did not investigate his claims as thoroughly as she should have.

 

There are a few things that can be confirmed about Solas, or ruled out about him. 1. He is elven. Which means both his parents were elven. His age, which he would have stated to Leliana if she asked. I think Weeks said early to mid 40s. This places his date of birth. Match that up with world events. 40 years before, Orlais was at war with Ferelden, which was a time of strife for those lands. So just from this we can determine that Solas was either from a Dalish clan, or an alienage, and most likely not in Orlais or Ferelden. He claims he's from a town, so lets assume alienage. That narrows it down to a few locations. Investigation of these sites might easily reveal that Solas was lying, and indeed this was the case. But for some reason Leliana only found this out when it was too late and Solas had left.

 

So the task should not have been difficult, and Solas was there for about a year (not three). Yet he stayed hidden, literally right under her very nose, as he spends his time beneath her rookery. Leliana declined to investigate him because SHE thought it wasn't worth the trouble and that they had bigger things to deal with. She took it upon herself to make that call, which is not her role. She was incompetent as a spymaster. Her experience with the traitor should have enlightened her to the fact that the Inquisition could be infiltrated, and that actually turned out to be the case. Not only did the Qunari manage to infiltrate (outside of The Iron Bull) but the Venatori did as well. Depending on how you play it, the House of Repose can also infiltrate and nearly kill Josephine.

 

My point is that many of Leliana's "solutions" involve murder or underhanded tactics. Pull the agents was the right choice, I don't fault her for that, but now that you mention it, she even doubts herself on it saying she should have told them to stay and die. The violent ending absolutely does show incompetence. Alternatively, the persuasive ending shows that she became competent with the Inquisitor's help. And without the Inquisitor's influence, she leads the Chantry to the brink of permanent destruction.

 

The bad future I'm referring to is Redcliffe. She will kill Felix and provoke Alexius even if you order her to let Felix go. The whole situation could have been resolved without a battle, but Leliana forces it and thus put the entire world in jeopardy.

[leaguer of one]

Because she didn't question him enough and did not investigate his claims as thoroughly as she should have.

 

There are a few things that can be confirmed about Solas, or ruled out about him. 1. He is elven. Which means both his parents were elven. His age, which he would have stated to Leliana if she asked. I think Weeks said early to mid 40s. This places his date of birth. Match that up with world events. 40 years before, Orlais was at war with Ferelden, which was a time of strife for those lands. So just from this we can determine that Solas was either from a Dalish clan, or an alienage, and most likely not in Orlais or Ferelden. He claims he's from a town, so lets assume alienage. That narrows it down to a few locations. Investigation of these sites might easily reveal that Solas was lying, and indeed this was the case. But for some reason Leliana only found this out when it was too late and Solas had left.

 

So the task should not have been difficult, and Solas was there for about a year (not three). Yet he stayed hidden, literally right under her very nose, as he spends his time beneath her rookery. Leliana declined to investigate him because SHE thought it wasn't worth the trouble and that they had bigger things to deal with. She took it upon herself to make that call, which is not her role. She was incompetent as a spymaster. Her experience with the traitor should have enlightened her to the fact that the Inquisition could be infiltrated, and that actually turned out to be the case. Not only did the Qunari manage to infiltrate (outside of The Iron Bull) but the Venatori did as well. Depending on how you play it, the House of Repose can also infiltrate and nearly kill Josephine.

 

My point is that many of Leliana's "solutions" involve murder or underhanded tactics. Pull the agents was the right choice, I don't fault her for that, but now that you mention it, she even doubts herself on it saying she should have told them to stay and die. The violent ending absolutely does show incompetence. Alternatively, the persuasive ending shows that she became competent with the Inquisitor's help. And without the Inquisitor's influence, she leads the Chantry to the brink of permanent destruction.

 

The bad future I'm referring to is Redcliffe. She will kill Felix and provoke Alexius even if you order her to let Felix go. The whole situation could have been resolved without a battle, but Leliana forces it and thus put the entire world in jeopardy.

Ofcourse she question him enough. That would have never showed he was lying. Questioning on would prove one is lying if you have a way to prove one is lying. Solas' alibi is that he's an apostate mage who's a hermit who spends his time going to ruins and going into the fade. What on earth can she use to double check if he's lying or not? And this world is pre-renaissance, checking if he really is from the far off town he says is from (really, did you not take the time to see where he says he's from. It's far off from near everything) if going to take a massive about of time. Added on the fact that the average person in this world do not have birth record even much more an elf. That's left for nobles Even more so with the world going crazy. Sorry, but your clearly missing context.

She has nothing on had to indicate he's lying or to show he is lying. Talking more with him would prove nothing. Why? because he has all his bases covered...Unlike blackwall. He's not going to say anything suspicious nor is there something there to make him look suspicious.

 

As so what if her plans involve murder and underhanded tactics. That how the game is played. that what it means to be a spy. Even Ironbull job in the qun was like that and he was a spy hunter and rebel fighter.

And Not one leader who cares have not second guess there choices. That does not make them bad leaders.

 

And what does it matter what furture Leli does...They are two different people. Who you are a year ago is not who you are now.