150 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

1. I'm sorry...What? The definition is exactly what it does. The definition is not getting someone to do something by using deceit. It's deceiving someone to get to an end. How is telling everyone lies about who he is and were he is from not that? And you keep mistaking his goal. it's to get the foci. Everything else is just a mean to an end to get that.

 

2.Not sharing the truth and misleading about what going on is trickery. THAT'S NOT UP TO DEBATE.

 

3.Sorry,bit there is no option to be suspicious. You can have you character be so with out any reflection in the games story.

 

4.No, you embellished example and ignore facts.  Blackwall and Solas are not examples of incompetents. Why?  because there are no tells available to prove they are lying. And Leliana being observant of subtle detail normal people can't even see does prove she's competent. And working the game is a show of compitence. The.The entire idea of it is about out smarting, trick and misleading your oponent. You just don't do that like breathing air it takes massive planning. Every last bit of it does and skill. Sorry but it's clearly don't get how much skill it takes to do it. Sorry, being spy mast does not mean being all seeing and to even start to see Solas was lying a flaw has to be seen first. Being that this is the dread wolf ofcourse he would deceive leliana. he tricks everyone.

 

5. it's symbol is not a sword. It's a sword,eye, and fire. Never a sword alone. Try again.

 

6.but not from earlier conversations...From his reaction he's having right at the moment of it's destruction. When it would be too late to do anything if the Foci was still whole.

 

1. Because the Inquisition did not accept Solas' help because he was just some "elven apostate". That was just Solas' cover, and whether the Inquisition believed him or not, the reasons the Inquisition allowed him to stay was because he was useful to them in saving the Herald's life, informing them of the rifts, fighting the enemy, and helping forward their research. In other words, the Inquisition had its own reasons for keeping him on. Bottom line, a lie is only a trick when the target falls for it. The Inquisition didn't fall for it, or didn't care.

 

2. Not the same thing.

 

3. There are some. In general, the option of "Tell me more about you".

 

4. Sure there are. Leliana even had a written document by the real Blackwall. She could have asked Thom to write something, or examined anything he wrote and compared the writing styles. I explained in my previous post how Leliana could have confirmed Solas was lying.

 

5. But the picture is not complete. Obviously the first thing you would draw of the Inquisition's symbol in a picture like that is the sword, otherwise you wouldn't know where to place the hairy eyeball.

 

6. Are you suggesting the Inquisitor was saying there's more... pieces of the foci? No. He was saying there is more to the foci's story.

[Dai Grepher]

4.2 All you're proving is that Leliana is a competent bard. Not a competent spymaster.

[leaguer of one]

4.2 All you're proving is that Leliana is a competent bard. Not a competent spymaster.

To be a spy master you need to work as an agent first. And nothing she has done as a spymaster shows she's bad at it. Just that she is not omnipotent.

[leaguer of one]

1. Because the Inquisition did not accept Solas' help because he was just some "elven apostate". That was just Solas' cover, and whether the Inquisition believed him or not, the reasons the Inquisition allowed him to stay was because he was useful to them in saving the Herald's life, informing them of the rifts, fighting the enemy, and helping forward their research. In other words, the Inquisition had its own reasons for keeping him on. Bottom line, a lie is only a trick when the target falls for it. The Inquisition didn't fall for it, or didn't care.

 

2. Not the same thing.

 

3. There are some. In general, the option of "Tell me more about you".

 

4. Sure there are. Leliana even had a written document by the real Blackwall. She could have asked Thom to write something, or examined anything he wrote and compared the writing styles. I explained in my previous post how Leliana could have confirmed Solas was lying.

 

5. But the picture is not complete. Obviously the first thing you would draw of the Inquisition's symbol in a picture like that is the sword, otherwise you wouldn't know where to place the hairy eyeball.

 

6. Are you suggesting the Inquisitor was saying there's more... pieces of the foci? No. He was saying there is more to the foci's story.

1. Sorry, but everyone including the quis believe he was a mage dreamer hermit. Just because he is useful does not cover up that fact that deceived everyone. Sorry but that still is the definition of tricking people.

 

2.Yes it is. Trickery is geting to a goal using deciet. He does that, thus it's trickery.

 

3.Nope, not at all. You can question him to get more info on him. nothing there to say you don't believe him. The only thing you can do is say you don't like his belife of the fade and his openness on spirits.

 

4.That's not enough to prove him wrong. Your missing the fact here that not everyone remembers what they wrote years ago in detail. The only real way is with Wardens.

 

5.The underline is finished,not the over color. And the parts of the symble for the quis would be part of the underline.

 

6.Nothing I said indicated I'm taking about pieces of the Foci..Let's try this agian. What I said was the only thing that made the quis suspicious there is more to what going on is Solas' current reaction, not previous. I'm say only time the quis is suspicious of Solas is right when the Foci broke.

[Dai Grepher]

1. Sorry, but everyone including the quis believe he was a mage dreamer hermit. Just because he is useful does not cover up that fact that deceived everyone. Sorry but that still is the definition of tricking people.

 

2.Yes it is. Trickery is geting to a goal using deciet. He does that, thus it's trickery.

 

3.Nope, not at all. You can question him to get more info on him. nothing there to say you don't believe him. The only thing you can do is say you don't like his belife of the fade and his openness on spirits.

 

4.That's not enough to prove him wrong. Your missing the fact here that not everyone remembers what they wrote years ago in detail. The only real way is with Wardens.

 

5.The underline is finished,not the over color. And the parts of the symble for the quis would be part of the underline.

 

6.Nothing I said indicated I'm taking about pieces of the Foci..Let's try this agian. What I said was the only thing that made the quis suspicious there is more to what going on is Solas' current reaction, not previous. I'm say only time the quis is suspicious of Solas is right when the Foci broke.

 

1. I disagree, but even if that were true, his only trick would have been to join the Inquisition, not get his orb back. To deceive others they must first believe his lie. If they did not believe his story, but accepted him based on his usefulness, then they were not tricked. By definition.

 

2. Trickery is tricking others. Nothing indicates the Inquisition was tricked to do anything by Solas. The Inquisition did not have to accept Solas. It did because he proved useful. His cover story was merely him withholding one potential reason for the Inquisition to put him in stocks. So no, merely omitting details about himself is not trickery, because the Inquisition simply did not have evidence to convict.

 

3. I didn't write that you could voice your disbelief, but the fact that you can question him shows that you can be skeptical of him. Like the "Alright, what is it and how do you know about it" regarding the orb. It shows that you don't just go along with whatever he says.

 

4. I didn't write that you would question Blackwall about it, but now that you bring it up, Thom claims to have been in Ferelden during the Blight, and the note states that the real Blackwall was blocked at the border of Ferelden when trying to enter and learn what happened. But my original point was that Leliana could have compared the handwriting and writing styles of the note she found and whatever Thom wrote while helping the Inquisition.

 

5. Prove that the underline is finished. What I see looks like the basic draft, not the completed line art.

 

6. Your idea makes no sense. Why would anyone care about there being more to Solas' reaction? No, it was all about the orb's history. For every statement there is an equal response from the Inquisitor. Whether Solas says, "It is not... your fault", or "That would not recover what has been lost", or the third one I can't remember (something about Cory being dead), the Inquisitor's response is always "There's more, isn't there?" And Solas says it wasn't supposed to happen this way. And no, that's not the only time the Inquisitor can show suspicion of Solas.

[leaguer of one]

1. I disagree, but even if that were true, his only trick would have been to join the Inquisition, not get his orb back. To deceive others they must first believe his lie. If they did not believe his story, but accepted him based on his usefulness, then they were not tricked. By definition.

 

2. Trickery is tricking others. Nothing indicates the Inquisition was tricked to do anything by Solas. The Inquisition did not have to accept Solas. It did because he proved useful. His cover story was merely him withholding one potential reason for the Inquisition to put him in stocks. So no, merely omitting details about himself is not trickery, because the Inquisition simply did not have evidence to convict.

 

3. I didn't write that you could voice your disbelief, but the fact that you can question him shows that you can be skeptical of him. Like the "Alright, what is it and how do you know about it" regarding the orb. It shows that you don't just go along with whatever he says.

 

4. I didn't write that you would question Blackwall about it, but now that you bring it up, Thom claims to have been in Ferelden during the Blight, and the note states that the real Blackwall was blocked at the border of Ferelden when trying to enter and learn what happened. But my original point was that Leliana could have compared the handwriting and writing styles of the note she found and whatever Thom wrote while helping the Inquisition.

 

5. Prove that the underline is finished. What I see looks like the basic draft, not the completed line art.

 

6. Your idea makes no sense. Why would anyone care about there being more to Solas' reaction? No, it was all about the orb's history. For every statement there is an equal response from the Inquisitor. Whether Solas says, "It is not... your fault", or "That would not recover what has been lost", or the third one I can't remember (something about Cory being dead), the Inquisitor's response is always "There's more, isn't there?" And Solas says it wasn't supposed to happen this way. And no, that's not the only time the Inquisitor can show suspicion of Solas.

1. And they clearly believed his lie. That's why it's a trick. Sorry but by the very definition he tricked everyone in the inquisition.

2.Did you not play the game? Everyone believed every word he said about who he was and we're he go his info.  that's a trick.

 

3.No, that just means you asking why he knows about the orb...which he responds with " the fade" and that ends all questions about it. You never show any disbelief about it. and it was a lie.

 

4.that's one way to do it...If she had the incense to do that. black wall never did anything to have her disbelieve him.

 

5.Grasping straws are we? It too simple not to of been left out.

[Eggpop]

Because she didn't question him enough and did not investigate his claims as thoroughly as she should have.

 

There are a few things that can be confirmed about Solas, or ruled out about him. 1. He is elven. Which means both his parents were elven. His age, which he would have stated to Leliana if she asked. I think Weeks said early to mid 40s. This places his date of birth. Match that up with world events. 40 years before, Orlais was at war with Ferelden, which was a time of strife for those lands. So just from this we can determine that Solas was either from a Dalish clan, or an alienage, and most likely not in Orlais or Ferelden. He claims he's from a town, so lets assume alienage. That narrows it down to a few locations. Investigation of these sites might easily reveal that Solas was lying, and indeed this was the case. But for some reason Leliana only found this out when it was too late and Solas had left.

 

So the task should not have been difficult, and Solas was there for about a year (not three). Yet he stayed hidden, literally right under her very nose, as he spends his time beneath her rookery. Leliana declined to investigate him because SHE thought it wasn't worth the trouble and that they had bigger things to deal with. She took it upon herself to make that call, which is not her role. She was incompetent as a spymaster. Her experience with the traitor should have enlightened her to the fact that the Inquisition could be infiltrated, and that actually turned out to be the case. Not only did the Qunari manage to infiltrate (outside of The Iron Bull) but the Venatori did as well. Depending on how you play it, the House of Repose can also infiltrate and nearly kill Josephine.

 

My point is that many of Leliana's "solutions" involve murder or underhanded tactics. Pull the agents was the right choice, I don't fault her for that, but now that you mention it, she even doubts herself on it saying she should have told them to stay and die. The violent ending absolutely does show incompetence. Alternatively, the persuasive ending shows that she became competent with the Inquisitor's help. And without the Inquisitor's influence, she leads the Chantry to the brink of permanent destruction.

 

The bad future I'm referring to is Redcliffe. She will kill Felix and provoke Alexius even if you order her to let Felix go. The whole situation could have been resolved without a battle, but Leliana forces it and thus put the entire world in jeopardy.

 

I doubt Solas would tell Leliana his real age, only the one that will mislead her more. Neither does your points actually gear Leliana with enough clues to accurately discover Solas' lies. The fact that he became a hermit at some point away from civilization simply boggles hundreds of possibilities of who he could be, where he's from, which Leliana is simply not omniscience enough to find out. And according to Gaider, the roughly estimated the time period of the Inquisition is 3~4 years, which makes sense story wise considering the travel distances between each areas. There's a forum about it somewhere here.

 

And I think at this point you're simply expecting some kind of impossible perfection from her. Spies can get into Inquisition and it's not something Leliana can completely put to an end. She doesn't know, and can't, control people's loyalty and changes and the best she can do is to discover them at quick notice once a suspicion comes up. And I don't know exactly what Solas did to instigate this kind of immediate attention from her. Plus you've seem to have forgotten that it was Leliana's agent who saved Josephine life, as a counter to the potential Repose assassination attempt.

 

I'm not entirely sure why you're complaining about her incompetency and then turn the other cheek to say it's not competent for a spymaster to do shady business like assassination, torture, crippling people from shadows, shady dealings etc... Which is exactly what she dealt with as a bard, and exactly what Divine Justinia used her for. Also Her dark ending is subjective, some prefers the Divine to be diplomatic and peaceful while others prefer her to be vicious and iron-fist-ed (like Vivienne) so it's the matter of personal opinion, not the character's competency. So yes, Leliana isn't perfect but neither is she incompetent. 

 

As for the Redcliff future you're being a bit dramatic about it. The world was already doomed, Alexius (who has already gone too far) was going to receive death sentence from Coryfish and somehow killing his long gone blighted son puts the entire world into jeopardy? (I mean this can be counted as a mercy killing too). I personally tried to stop her in my canon play through but if you've paid enough attention to game, a year of tortures and experimentation have broken her beyond repair. Surely you can tell by how she states that 'no one is innocent' before silting Felix's throat (that broke my tiny heart) :c It's not even related to her being a spymaster so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

Really, some people expects her to be like an all knowing god for some reason :/

[ModernAcademic]

@Mykel54:  "Morrigan makes a choice not knowing the full picture-"  

My opinion.  She got what she deserved.  Who makes such a stupid choice. 

 

"I know this is called the 'Well of Sorrow' and that there's a 'price to pay' but SURE I'll drink from it."   She's an idiot and her mother's just sad she raised such an power mongering twisted little imbecile.  

 

Lesson:  Don't make choices you know come with a heavy price... when you know neither 1) the reward nor 2) the heavy price.  

 

Bioware is teaching life lessons people.

 

Or making a very lousy plot.

Just saying.

[Drasanil]

If Solas was inclined to trick Leliana, he could have just pointed to a large alienage on the map, say he was an urchin or ran away as a child and bam. Its not like anyone bothers to keep official records on elves to disprove his claim, nor could the city elves living there even properly gainsay it. After all it would have been "decades" and alienages probably see plenty of urchins/run aways/disappeared people, any number of whom could easily match Solas' hearsay description readily enough for verification purposes. 

 

That he pointed to a long dead ruin is in some ways far less of trick given it at least lets you know something is there to follow up on. Now that Leliana couldn't be bothered to check up on it before he disappeared is on her. It takes a fairly sloppy spymaster to not bother vetting the inner circle of an aspiring pan-national organisation with official divine sanction. 

[leaguer of one]

 

 

That he pointed to a long dead ruin is in some ways far less of trick given it at least lets you know something is there to follow up on. Now that Leliana couldn't be bothered to check up on it before he disappeared is on her. It takes a fairly sloppy spymaster to not bother vetting the inner circle of an aspiring pan-national organisation with official divine sanction. 

Seriously, why do people make this point thinking it's valid. The is a story in a world pre-renaissance with the world falling to pieces and the place he reference to is so far off it would take months to get to. Dragon age does not have google maps around or satellites to cheap up on this at an instant. to even check it would take many months. And based on her letter about Solas she was investigation  way before the end of the story any way. The point is, their is no way to suspect Solas for much of the plot of the game.

[Drasanil]

Seriously, why do people make this point thinking it's valid. The is a story in a world pre-renaissance with the world falling to pieces and the place he reference to is so far off it would take months to get to. Dragon age does not have google maps around or satellites to cheap up on this at an instant. to even check it would take many months. And based on her letter about Solas she was investigation  way before the end of the story any way. The point is, their is no way to suspect Solas for much of the plot of the game.

 

The game's time span is supposed to be over a few years (see us, and war table assets/messengers, traveling over half the continent several times over), even if it takes months of travel there and back. You don't exactly need to conduct in depth investigations to figure out that a long dead ruin is a long dead ruin and report back. At which point it should at least raise some questions and merit a friendly conversation or two once the initial breach is closed and there is lull in the happenings. 

 

Hence why I said, if Solas were really inclined to trick her, he could have just pointed to a random alienage on the map and let her chase hearsay, gossip and shadows.

[Eggpop]

If Solas was inclined to trick Leliana, he could have just pointed to a large alienage on the map, say he was an urchin or ran away as a child and bam. Its not like anyone bothers to keep official records on elves to disprove his claim, nor could the city elves living there even properly gainsay it. After all it would have been "decades" and alienages probably see plenty of urchins/run aways/disappeared people, any number of whom could easily match Solas' hearsay description readily enough for verification purposes. 

 

That he pointed to a long dead ruin is in some ways far less of trick given it at least lets you know something is there to follow up on. Now that Leliana couldn't be bothered to check up on it before he disappeared is on her. It takes a fairly sloppy spymaster to not bother vetting the inner circle of an aspiring pan-national organisation with official divine sanction. 

 

I see your point there, and true enough Solas never really spun a false life story to justify his 'innocence'. But neither did he actually caused any issues to instigate immediate suspicion and harmful enough to top off Leliana's list of priority for 'how to troll Coryfishite and secure a solid foundation of the Inquisition from brain dead Chantry people'. Regardless of his true goal, his time in the Inquisition actually benefited to their primary goals thus there wasn't enough purpose and agents to spare. Leliana says this herself that she should have been more through but didn't at the time because there were other more immediate things she had to do. That doesn't excuse her oversight on this but given the context of the situations they were in, how does it make her completely incompetent enough to call her a sloppy spymaster when you pit it against all the other works she had done for the Inquisition??

[leaguer of one]

The game's time span is supposed to be over a few years (see us, and war table assets/messengers, traveling over half the continent several times over), even if it takes months of travel there and back. You don't exactly need to conduct in depth investigations to figure out that a long dead ruin is a long dead ruin and report back. At which point it should at least raise some questions and merit a friendly conversation or two once the initial breach is closed and there is lull in the happenings. 

 

Hence why I said, if Solas were really inclined to trick her, he could have just pointed to a random alienage on the map and let her chase hearsay, gossip and shadows.

No, it's not.  David Gaider was talking about how long it took to make the hinderlands, not the timelne of the game.

source...

http://forum.bioware...7#entry19167830

http://forum.bioware.../#entry19172134

 

DAI takes place in a year. Sorry try again.

[Drasanil]

 

I see your point there, and true enough Solas never really spun a false life story to justify his 'innocence'. But neither did he actually caused any issues to instigate immediate suspicion and harmful enough to top off Leliana's list of priority for 'how to troll Coryfishite and secure a solid foundation of the Inquisition from brain dead Chantry people'. Regardless of his true goal, his time in the Inquisition actually benefited to their primary goals thus there wasn't enough purpose and agents to spare. Leliana says this herself that she should have been more through but didn't at the time because there were other more immediate things she had to do. That doesn't excuse her oversight on this but given the context of the situations they were in, how does it make her completely incompetent enough to call her a sloppy spymaster when you pit it against all the other works she had done for the Inquisition??

 

I guess that depends on how you view the inner circle and its members, given Solas is your top knowing-things-about-magic guy, it might be worth investigating him just to make sure he's not leading you astray with his knowledge. Now I don't think it was an unforgivable oversight given he was genuinely helpful, and that apostates are likely not to be entirely truthful about their background to begin with. It's more a question of Leliana was sloppy given he made it easy for her to disprove his claims and given all the hype about how OMG awesome she is...

 

No, it's not.  David Gaider was talking about how long it took to make the hinderlands, not the timelne of the game.

source...

http://forum.bioware...7#entry19167830

http://forum.bioware.../#entry19172134

 

DAI takes place in a year. Sorry try again.

 

 

You do realise none of the two quotes you just provided actually say DAI takes place in a year right? He's stating he doesn't know/won't say canonically how long it took.

 

Furthermore, given all the long distance travel that takes place in game, the too far away excuse falls flat regardless. 

[leaguer of one]

 

 

 

 

You do realise none of the two quotes you just provided actually say DAI takes place in a year right? He's stating he doesn't know/won't say canonically how long it took.

 

Furthermore, given all the long distance travel that takes place in game, the too far away excuse falls flat regardless. 

 

It does not have to.  The lore already shows it takes a year for the plot to finish. All it needs to do is show Dai does not take place in 3 years.

 

We know it takes place in a year because the conclave takes place in 9:40 with the explosion happening at the start of 9:41 and the new Divine is picked in 9:41 a month after the defeat of Cory.

That's a year.

 

And don't try with that"travel is instate". It's not. The long part of travel is not shown, just like dao, which story took place in a year. Travel takes time in da, we the player only see the illusion of it going fast because it's never shown.

[Eggpop]

 

 

 

I guess that depends on how you view the inner circle and its members, given Solas is your top knowing-things-about-magic guy, it might be worth investigating him just to make sure he's not leading you astray with his knowledge. Now I don't think it was an unforgivable oversight given he was genuinely helpful, and that apostates are likely not to be entirely truthful about their background to begin with. It's more a question of Leliana was sloppy given he made it easy for her to disprove his claims and given all the hype about how OMG awesome she is...

 

 

You do realise none of the two quotes you just provided actually say DAI takes place in a year right? He's stating he doesn't know/won't say canonically how long it took.

 

Furthermore, given all the long distance travel that takes place in game, the too far away excuse falls flat regardless. 

 

 

Yes she was sloppy, albeit without leading the Inquisition to negative consequences. But I think Solas proved himself to Leliana to be trustworthy given the risk he took as an apostate personally offering help to an organisation that could jail or kill him (as Cassandra threatened to) and that's probably one of the reasons why he was not on her mountain of top priority lists. Still sloppy, flawed, but not enough to support people's claim of her incompetency :3

 

But you have to admit, it is quite a feat in the fact that the advisers were major part of untangling Coryfish's web off southern Thedas so calling Leliana to be simply incompetent doesn't do her justice (and you couldn't even continue your main quest without them, story wise as well)  And I don't know if dragon age wiki counts but it does say the Inquisition took a year to defeat Coryfish. So if this is canon I suppose it also gives a sense of urgency in what Leliana had to focus on o 3 o

[Drasanil]

 

It does not have to.  The lore already shows it takes a year for the plot to finish. All it needs to do is show Dai does not take place in 3 years.

 

We know it takes place in a year because the conclave takes place in 9:40 with the explosion happening at the start of 9:41 and the new Divine is picked in 9:41 a month after the defeat of Cory.

That's a year.

 

And yet Gaider refuses to confirm it.

 

 

And don't try with that"travel is instate". It's not. The long part of travel is not shown, just like dao, which story took place in a year. Travel takes time in da, we the player only see the illusion of it going fast because it's never shown.

 

 

Yes, travel takes time in DA. That's exactly my point, which you obviously completely failed to grasp. If we're travelling half way across the continent several times over which takes time and maintaining semi-regular correspondence and the exchange of packages with far off places like tevinter which also takes time then the too far away excuse starts to fall flat.

[Drasanil]

Yes she was sloppy, albeit without leading the Inquisition to negative consequences. But I think Solas proved himself to Leliana to be trustworthy given the risk he took as an apostate personally offering help to an organisation that could jail or kill him (as Cassandra threatened to) and that's probably one of the reasons why he was not on her mountain of top priority lists. Still sloppy, flawed, but not enough to support people's claim of her incompetency :3

 

But you have to admit, it is quite a feat in the fact that the advisers were major part of untangling Coryfish's web off southern Thedas so calling Leliana to be simply incompetent doesn't do her justice (and you couldn't even continue your main quest without them, story wise as well)  And I don't know if dragon age wiki counts but it does say the Inquisition took a year to defeat Coryfish. So if this is canon I suppose it also gives a sense of urgency in what Leliana had to focus on o 3 o

 

She wasn't incompetent, just sloppy, or too comfortable, when it came to Solas. Like I said its not grievous or unforgivable, its more about showing that Lel doesn't live up to OMG awesome hype. Something about her character just irks me, the more I deal with her the less I like her. (I liked her well enough on my first DAO play-through and then less and less after that until it got to her DAI unhinged saccharine murder psycho persona.)   

[leaguer of one]

 

 

 

And yet Gaider refuses to confirm it.

 

 

 

 

Yes, travel takes time in DA. That's exactly my point, which you obviously completely failed to grasp. If we're travelling half way across the continent several times over which takes time and maintaining semi-regular correspondence and the exchange of packages with far off places like tevinter which also takes time then the too far away excuse starts to fall flat.

 

1. He never refuse to comferm it and he does not need to.

 

2. Nope. their plenty of ways to get info and to places quickly enough....It's called ships and roads. but that's completey different witha  place which has no access to them like the ruin Solas said his town was in. Added every mission on the war table that depends on these messages  and packages move about takes time to complete. Sorry, that quick travel from the western approach to Shyhold really takes weeks at a time. There is no arguing around that.

[Drasanil]

 

1. He never refuse to comferm it and he does not need to.

 

He said 'I dunno' should have been a hint. If had already been solidly established as year lore wise, you'd think he wouldn't 'dunno'.

 

2. Nope. their plenty of ways to get info and to places quickly enough....It's called ships and roads. but that's completey different witha  place which has no access to them like the ruin Solas said his town was in. Added every mission on the war table that depends on these messages  and packages move about takes time to complete. 2.Sorry, that quick travel from the western approach to Shyhold really takes weeks at a time. There is no arguing around that.

 

1. There are roads all over the place, just because somewhere is a ruin now doesn't mean there still isn't a road to it. After all Tevinter were rather prolific in their road building.

 

2. Maybe you need to brush up on your reading comprehension, because I'm not arguing around that. I don't know how much clearer I can make it for you, I'm arguing exactly that. Given how many trips we make and how much travel time is involved, your entire Solas' town was too far away excuse doesn't hold up. Given we obviously had ample travel time in game for multiple long travel time repeat journeys. 

[Eggpop]

She wasn't incompetent, just sloppy, or too comfortable, when it came to Solas. Like I said its not grievous or unforgivable, its more about showing that Lel doesn't live up to OMG awesome hype. Something about her character just irks me, the more I deal with her the less I like her. (I liked her well enough on my first DAO play-through and then less and less after that until it got to her DAI unhinged saccharine murder psycho persona.)   

 

Oh I'm sure you've meant that. However the people I was addressing to were the ones who claimed her incompetency on facts that I find questionable xD

 

Funny enough, Leliana really irked me until I spent some time with her. Her happy character in Origin grew on me, her darker side in Inquisition made me sad but the result of the major development she gets when you un-harden her was satisfying and I loved it o ^ o From the sound of it though, it looks like you left her hardened. Maybe you'll like her un-hardened version where she sort of gets her happy mode back o3o

[Drasanil]

Oh I'm sure you've meant that. However the people I was addressing to were the ones who claimed her incompetency on facts that I find questionable xD

 

Funny enough, Leliana really irked me until I spent some time with her. Her happy character in Origin grew on me, her darker side in Inquisition made me sad but the result of the major development she gets when you un-harden her was satisfying and I loved it o ^ o From the sound of it though, it looks like you left her hardened. Maybe you'll like her un-hardened version where she sort of gets her happy mode back o3o

 

I haven't done a unhardened playthrough yet, mostly because I'm always inclined to let Leliana kill the traitor at the start of the game. As for her dark persona, it's not so much that she went dark that bothered me. It's more that I didn't find her dark persona particularly convincing. Like when she kills the Chantry sister and starts rambling on about how it was a good thing to kill her and she's good at killing and killing suits her. Felt kind of... forced and insincere.  

[leaguer of one]

 

 

 

He said 'I dunno' should have been a hint. If had already been solidly established as year lore wise, you'd think he wouldn't 'dunno'.

 

 

1. There are roads all over the place, just because somewhere is a ruin now doesn't mean there still isn't a road to it. After all Tevinter were rather prolific in their road building.

 

2. Maybe you need to brush up on your reading comprehension, because I'm not arguing around that. I don't know how much clearer I can make it for you, I'm arguing exactly that. Given how many trips we make and how much travel time is involved, your entire Solas' town was too far away excuse doesn't hold up. Given we obviously had ample travel time in game for multiple long travel time repeat journeys. 

 

1. And that was a miss understanding being he was talking about how long it took to make.

 

2. Right because people make roads to ruins no one uses. Just like Shyhold , the ruin in the forest in dao, and Heaven before the warden found it.  Sorry, but people don't make roads to no where.

 

3.Then it's clear your not getting what i'm say:

a. any investigation is going to take time. Time to get their, time to look around and time to get back.

b.With it being pre-renaissance it means they can get there quickly.

c.With the place being a hard to find ruin in the wilderness it's going to take even more time.

d. And it's at the edge of tevinter.

 

My point is that it matters not how many times we go to the places we gone to in the game. We're traveling on paved roads to place that's not hard to find. Is it hard to get to the Hissing waste?...Nope. It a dessert with a map to it and a road to it like very place we've gone to. The ruin Solas says he's from is a hard to reach spot in the middle of no were with no real maps to it on at the far north east. That going to take months to get to.

[leaguer of one]

I haven't done a unhardened playthrough yet, mostly because I'm always inclined to let Leliana kill the traitor at the start of the game. As for her dark persona, it's not so much that she went dark that bothered me. It's more that I didn't find her dark persona particularly convincing. Like when she kills the Chantry sister and starts rambling on about how it was a good thing to kill her and she's good at killing and killing suits her. Felt kind of... forced and insincere.  

How does he showing little emotion about her action make it feel like it's forced?

[Drasanil]

 

1. And that was a miss understanding being he was talking about how long it took to make.

 

Then the 1 year timeline doesn't really account for all the back and forth travelling, the raising of armies, provisions etc that the game lets you do. Unless the continent happens to be pretty small.

 

 

 

2. Right because people make roads to ruins no one uses. Just like Shyhold , the ruin in the forest in dao, and Heaven before the warden found it.    Sorry, but people don't make roads to no where.

 

Unless, of course, if the place only became a desolate ruin some time after a road was built to it. By your logic taking the imperial highway to Ostagar is incredulous.

 

 

3.Then it's clear your not getting what i'm say:

a. any investigation is going to take time. Time to get their, time to look around and time to get back.

b.With it being pre-renaissance it means they can get there quickly.

c.With the place being a hard to find ruin in the wilderness it's going to take even more time.

d. And it's at the edge of tevinter.

 

My point is that it matters not how many times we go to the places we gone to in the game. We're traveling on paved roads to place that's not hard to find. Is it hard to get to the Hissing waste?...Nope. It a dessert with a map to it and a road to it like very place we've gone to. The ruin Solas says he's from is a hard to reach spot in the middle of no were with no real maps to it on at the far north east. That going to take months to get to.

  

And I'm saying even if you account for the Tevinter border distance (which is actually helpful given the Imperial highway will cover a good part of your trip) and the final bit of the trip being more difficult (assuming no ancillary roads or even rivers), the excuse still doesn't hold. We get intel from Qunari HQ in Por Vallen literally on the opposite side of the map, we manage to do things like clear a proper road through the frostbacks, go off trailing to the Shard Oasis and the Hissing Wastes, send expeditions to the deep roads etc etc...

 

How does he showing little emotion about her action make it feel like it's forced?

 

Because it felt more like the actress was talking to herself about what Leliana had done rather than Leliana having a conversation with the Inquisitor.