811 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

... so why does she stay with him if you save the templars? She hates the idea of the Venatori, the time magic, the Elder One... all of it. Granted, she only learns about these things because of the Inquisition. Without it, Fiona seems to be at the mercy of Alexius and his time magic illusions. 

 

So I don't think Fiona is as dumb as some people like to argue. I think she and the mages are simply trapped in a massive illusion created by the Venatori. I wish that we could hear her reasons for fighting us during In Your Heart Shall Burn. That could have cleared up a lot of confusion.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I don't think she had much choice in the end.

[Br3admax]

She was in way too deep, and there was no chance of the mages escaping while under the thumbs of a magister. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

She was probably also under Blood Magic control anyway for that matter.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yeah, I had kind of assumed she might possibly have been brainwashed by the fight she showed up to fight me in Haven, but I wasn't able to find any definitive explanation. So I don't know if she was controlled with blood magic, or the Venatori leaders convinced her of their cause or she was in scared and felt in too deep to find any alternative so she latched onto Corypheus army because she hoped it was her only way out to the situation. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The faction you don't side with get brainwashed and mindcontrolled by Corypheus. 

[Boost32]

Dorian said the ones who didn't joined the Venatori, either died or fled, he never mentioned blood magic.

Iron Bull: I guess the Vints will be pissed with you after warning everyone at Haven.
Dorian: Not that my warning did much good.
Iron Bull: Didn't see any rebel mages coming to do it.
Dorian: There is that. The ones who didn't join the Venatori either ran off or were killed.
Iron Bull: Ah, see? Good on you. Way to join the underdogs.
Dorian: I'm thrilled, really.

[Boost32]

The faction you don't side with get brainwashed and mindcontrolled by Corypheus.

Here we go again, there is no proof of mind control or brainwash of the mages.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Here we go again, there is no proof of mind control or brainwash of the mages.

Yes there is. Patrick Weekes, the head of the Dragon Age team, said trust the strategy guide for the reason. The strategy guide mentions them being brainwashed multiple times. 

 

So by Word of God, the mages were brainwashed. Just like the Templars were. 

[Boost32]

Yes there is. Patrick Weekes, the head of the Dragon Age team, said trust the strategy guide for the reason. The strategy guide mentions them being brainwashed multiple times. 
 
So by Word of God, the mages were brainwashed. Just like the Templars were.

He didn't said it, he said he didn't remember but the guide might be correct, and said to the person who asked him to ask David Gaider.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

He didn't said it, he said he didn't remember but the guide might be correct, and said to the person who asked him to ask David Gaider.

Name one faction that serves Corypheus without being mind-controlled by him? There isn't any. Why would the Mages be any different? 

[Sunnie]

Yes there is. Patrick Weekes, the head of the Dragon Age team, said trust the strategy guide for the reason. The strategy guide mentions them being brainwashed multiple times. 

 

So by Word of God, the mages were brainwashed. Just like the Templars were. 

It was also detailed later where the Warden mages were under direct control of Coryphyshite. The Mages in Redcliff would be no different if you save the Templars.

[Boost32]

Name one faction that serves Corypheus without being mind-controlled by him? There isn't any. Why would the Mages be any different?

Venatori, the same faction the mages joined.

[Boost32]

It was also detailed later where the Warden mages were under direct control of Coryphyshite. The Mages in Redcliff would be no different if you save the Templars.

Yes they would, the grey Wardens needed to make a blood magic ritual to be controled, there is nothing indicating the mages at Redcliff did the same.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Venatori, the same faction the mages joined.

We don't know how many of the Venatori are willingly serving Corypheus. We just know the leaders are, just like the Templars. 

So by that logic, clearly all the Red Templars are willing servants to Corypheus too. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes they would, the grey Wardens needed to make a blood magic ritual to be controled, there is nothing indicating the mages at Redcliff did the same.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 

[Boost32]

We don't know how many of the Venatori are willingly serving Corypheus. We just know the leaders are, just like the Templars.
So by that logic, clearly all the Red Templars are willing servants to Corypheus too.

The exception is that we know they used red Lyrium, and even the Inquisitor will say to Hawke that the red templars were brainwashed.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Here, no mention of brainwash:

Iron Bull: I guess the Vints will be pissed with you after warning everyone at Haven.
Dorian: Not that my warning did much good.
Iron Bull: Didn't see any rebel mages coming to do it.
Dorian: There is that. The ones who didn't join the Venatori either ran off or were killed.
Iron Bull: Ah, see? Good on you. Way to join the underdogs.
Dorian: I'm thrilled, really.

Now I want a evidence of brainwash/blood magic.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

The exception is that we know they used red Lyrium, and even the Inquisitor will say to Hawke that the red templars were brainwashed.

The Templars chose to take the Red Lyrium, so they chose to serve Corypheus according to your logic. 

The Wardens also chose to do the ritual, so they also chose to serve Corypheus. 

 

Either all sides willingly joined, or none. 

 

Here, no mention of brainwash:

Iron Bull: I guess the Vints will be pissed with you after warning everyone at Haven.
Dorian: Not that my warning did much good.
Iron Bull: Didn't see any rebel mages coming to do it.
Dorian: There is that. The ones who didn't join the Venatori either ran off or were killed.
Iron Bull: Ah, see? Good on you. Way to join the underdogs.
Dorian: I'm thrilled, really.

Because clearly Dorian was there the whole time, despite seeing in In Hushed Whispers him keeping his distance from Alexius.

 

The fact that Corypheus does it to every army that serves him. 

[Boost32]

The Templars chose to take the Red Lyrium, so they chose to serve Corypheus according to your logic. 
The Wardens also chose to do the ritual, so they also chose to serve Corypheus. 
 
Either all sides willingly joined, or none. 
 

Because clearly Dorian was there the whole time.
 
The fact that Corypheus does it to every army that serves him.

The templars who took red Lyrium and knew it was blighted, willingly server Corypheus, the others were tricked and you know it.
The Wardens were tricked, but they knew it was bad, they paid for their mistake
And I didn't said they followed willingly, Dorian dialogue imply the use of violence to make them fall in line.

Show me a brainwashed Venatori. There is none.
You have no proof of the brainwash, you just want to excuse the mages and Fins w.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The templars who took red Lyrium and knew it was blighted, willingly server Corypheus, the others were tricked and you know it.
The Wardens were tricked, but they knew it was bad, they paid for their mistake
And I didn't said they followed willingly, Dorian dialogue imply the use of violence to make them fall in line.

Show me a brainwashed Venatori. There is none.
You have no proof of the brainwash, you just want to excuse the mages and Fins w.

No, the Templars were threatened with "Take Red Lyrium or you'll die" essentially. The Wardens were the ones who were tricked, with their version being "Do the ritual or Thedas will die". The Mage version was either blood magic or like the Templars where they were threatened "Serve Corypheus or you'll die". 

 

They were all controlled by being brainwashed, the only difference being how they were. And yes, the threat of harm or death is considered a type of brainwashing since it is a way to "make (someone) adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure.".

[MisterJB]

There were Circle mages who willingly joined the Venatori and who admired Corypheus even, like the author of this diary.

 

http://dragonage.wik..._Venatori_Diary

 

Of course, I am assuming that it is a Southern Mage because he speaks of fear of being branded an apostate and mentions a Circle. Still, one could argue he is Tevinter.

 

 

 

[Boost32]

No, the Templars were threatened with "Take Red Lyrium or you'll die" essentially. The Wardens were the ones who were tricked, with their version being "Do the ritual or Thedas will die". The Mage version was either blood magic or like the Templars where they were threatened "Serve Corypheus or you'll die". 
 
They were all controlled by being brainwashed, the only difference being how they were. And yes, the threat of harm or death is considered a type of brainwashing since it is a way to "make (someone) adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure.".

Lol, no they werent, have you ever done Champions of the Just? I know you didn't, because if you did you would know its not true.

So what? The Wardens still derserve what happened with them.

Coercion and threats are not brainwash.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There were Circle mages who willingly joined the Venatori and who admired Corypheus even, like the author of this diary.

 

http://dragonage.wik..._Venatori_Diary

 

Of course, I am assuming that it is a Southern Mage because he speaks of fear of being branded an apostate and mentions a Circle. Still, one could argue he is Tevinter.

I have no doubt there were mages who joined willingly. In In Hushed Whispers we see such a case with that one mage in the inn. Likewise there are Templars who joined willingly, explaining why each side still exists regardless of which faction you save. 

 

Lol, no they werent, have you ever done Champions of the Just? I know you didn't, because if you did you would know its not true.

So what? The Wardens still derserve what happened with them.

Coercion and threats are not brainwash.

Yes I have, actually. 

Wait, you think the Wardens deserved what happened to them? 

 

Yes it is. It's one of the oldest forms of brainwashing. The systemic threat of pain or death melds the person to being compliant. 

[Lavaeolus]

In "Champions of the Just", the Templars don't know what red lyrium is, they just think it's particularly potent form of lyrium. The officers are taking some to demonstrate that it's "safe". The officers are then starting to corrupt their subordinates.

There's no evidence of threat or torture for them, nor does threat seem necessary. Even after the ball drops, you don't have to convince anyone to ingest red lyrium -- you can just stuff it down their throat.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Doesn't the Redcliffe charger mission if you side with the Templars confirm that some ritual was performed on the mages?

Really there is more evidence to support mages being brainwashed than there is to suggest otherwise.