811 réponses à ce sujet

[Eggpop]

Sorry, I'll try to keep my posts relevant to the original topic

 

I doubt blood magic or mind controlling magic was used at the beginning since it makes the whole point of time magic obsolete if the Inquisitor was aware of the invitation anyway. Fiona was also in the position oblivious to Alexius' actual plans before the Inquisitor (tried to) smack some sense into her. So she wasn't particularly an obstacle needing of mind control.

 

Later though? Her actually submitting to a darkspawn? I'm not sure. If not blood magic / mind control, perhaps nightmare's influence? Any thoughts on nightmare being used to influence Fiona?

[Cobra's_back]

Sorry, I'll try to keep my posts relevant to the original topic

 

I doubt blood magic or mind controlling magic was used at the beginning since it makes the whole point of time magic obsolete if the Inquisitor was aware of the invitation anyway. Fiona was also in the position oblivious to Alexius' actual plans before the Inquisitor (tried to) smack some sense into her. So she wasn't particularly an obstacle needing of mind control.

 

Later though? Her actually submitting to a darkspawn? I'm not sure. If not blood magic / mind control, perhaps nightmare's influence? Any thoughts on nightmare being used to influence Fiona?

 

 

It doesn't say. Everything points to her joining on her own free will. Fiona is damaged goods. She had a hard life and appears to make decisions all based on emotions. She can't see the other side's point of view. 

 

I can't image how anyone could turn on the people who helped them, aka Alistair and Teagan to commit treason and take over Redcliffe. Only Connor seemed to fight for the people of Redcliffe. When Fiona states my people she means Mages. Connor cares about all people and that is the difference.

 

She got herself cornered and joined a Tevinter Magister. Dorian states clearly that half of Teventer would join the Elder One. He stated that after I had him join. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

This thread seems less like a mage vs templar thread and more of a "I hate Fiona" circle-jerk.

[Hellion Rex]

This thread seems less like a mage vs templar thread and more of a "I hate Fiona" circle-jerk.

Except it's a Fiona thread, not a mages vs templar thread. So the not-so-good opinion of Fiona are entirely fair game.

[DirkJake]

Yeah, I want to make it clear that I never intended for this thread to be Mage vs. Templar. It's supposed to be about Fiona and the reason why she sticks with the Venatori if you don't save the mages. And yes, I suspect some form of mind control is involved, because it would strain all credibility for Fiona to willingly follow Corypheus. 

 

Patrick Weekes almost confirmed that mind control was used, but he wanted David Gaider to offer the definitive answer. So could someone please tweet Gaider and ask for clarification? I know he doesn't want to be an on-call encyclopedia, so if he doesn't respond, then so be it. 

 

This is the Weekes tweet:

 

https://mobile.twitt...168908223062016

 

What is "the guide" they were talking about? 

[Master Warder Z_]

The game guide I'd presume

[thesuperdarkone2]

What is "the guide" they were talking about? 

The game guide which outright says in the IYHSB mission that if you side with the templars, the venatori are bolstered with the brainwashed rebel mages, and in Fiona's page, it outright says that if you side with the templars, she is brainwashed by the venatori into serving them.

[LOLandStuff]

But there's no mention that she's brainwashed if you side with the mages.
So, she's made a bad decision and all the brainwashing must occur while you're questing for the templars which is enough time to get everyone under Corypheus' control by the time you close the Breach.

[thesuperdarkone2]

But there's no mention that she's brainwashed if you side with the mages.
So, she's made a bad decision and all the brainwashing must occur while you're questing for the templars which is enough time to get everyone under Corypheus' control by the time you close the Breach.

I'm not talking about during the deal, I'm talking about what happens to the mages if you side with the Templars where the guide says they wind up brainwashed by the Venatori while you were getting the Templars.

[TK514]

Still waiting on that codex entry.

[Kakistos_]

Wayment. The Venatori, scarcely an army themselves, managed to brainwash the Mage Rebellion? The Mage Army that managed to fight one of the strongest fighting forces in Thedas, The Templars, to a standstill? AND Grand Enchanter Fiona AND the other Enchanters, extremely powerful Mages all? How exactly did they accomplish that feat? Blood Magic isn't all powerful. Individuals with strong mental defenses, particularly Mages trained in such arts, can resist and the hold can be broken by other Mages as shown in DA2. I don't think that plot line was particularly well thought out. The Templars joining I understand, they basically traded one leash for another, Blue Lyrium for Red Lyrium. I could see some Mages joining of their own free will but Fiona herself? Nah.

[LOLandStuff]

You mean that same strong Mage Army who was quick to throw its lot with Tevinter because they got spooked by a made-up story of templars attacking them?

[Hellion Rex]

Wayment. The Venatori, scarcely an army themselves, managed to brainwash the Mage Rebellion? The Mage Army that managed to fight one of the strongest fighting forces in Thedas, The Templars, to a standstill? AND Grand Enchanter Fiona AND the other Enchanters, extremely powerful Mages all? How exactly did they accomplish that feat? Blood Magic isn't all powerful. Individuals with strong mental defenses, particularly Mages trained in such arts, can resist and the hold can be broken by other Mages as shown in DA2. I don't think that plot line was particularly well thought out. The Templars joining I understand, they basically traded one leash for another, Blue Lyrium for Red Lyrium. I could see some Mages joining of their own free will but Fiona herself? Nah.

Except Corypheus, and presumably Calpernja, are not your average run of the mill blood mages.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You mean that same strong Mage Army who was quick to throw its lot with Tevinter because they got spooked by a made-up story of templars attacking them?

Was it confirmed the Templar army was never in the Hinterlands? I always saw evidence that was true. Not hard to believe since the Templars are led by an Envy demon, who is an ally of Alexius thus worked with him to help sell it. And there is Corporate Vale who states that the Templars recently left the Hinterlands, the ones remaining being ones who ignored the order. 

[Steelcan]

Was it confirmed the Templar army was never in the Hinterlands? I always saw evidence that was true. Not hard to believe since the Templars are led by an Envy demon, who is an ally of Alexius thus worked with him to help sell it. And there is Corporate Vale who said the Templars recently left the Hinterlands. 

the templar defectors are in the Hinterlands pursuing the rebel mages, the majority of the order is never said to have been in the area

[Hanako Ikezawa]

the templar defectors are in the Hinterlands pursuing the rebel mages, the majority of the order is never said to have been in the area

He says that they recently received an order to fall back though, and the ones who remain are the ones who didn't heed the order and defected. 

[LOLandStuff]

There were just a few templars roaming the Hinterlands just as there were a few mages whose freedom got way over their heads killing each other. And if you take the word of some Tevinters over the protection offered to them by Ferelden, then there's something very wrong with you.

[Steelcan]

He says that they recently received an order to fall back though, and the ones who remain are the ones who didn't heed the order and defected. 

and much of the order is still spread out across Thedas, there was likely a presence to keep an eye on the mages in Redcliffe, but if there were enough of them there to really be "an army" why wouldn't they have attacked?

[CosmicGnosis]

Was it confirmed the Templar army was never in the Hinterlands? I always saw evidence that was true. Not hard to believe since the Templars are led by an Envy demon, who is an ally of Alexius thus worked with him to help sell it.

I've wondered about this...

[LOLandStuff]

and much of the order is still spread out across Thedas, there was likely a presence to keep an eye on the mages in Redcliffe, but if there were enough of them there to really be "an army" why wouldn't they have attacked?

 

They were strolling about the Hinterlands and taking in the sights.

[Barquiel]

That herbalist lady in Redcliffe tells us that she ran out of supplies treating people in the village who were injured from the attacks by the templars. And the main force of the templars could attack the village at any time, while the ferelden army is obviously not in the area to defend the mages. I mean, Therinfal Redoubt isn't exactly very far away from Redcliffe. We know Denerim is two days forced march from Redcliffe...and Therinfal Redoubt is even closer to Redcliffe.

[Shadow Fox]

That herbalist lady in Redcliffe tells us that she ran out of supplies treating people in the village who were injured from the attacks by the templars. And the main force of the templars could attack the village at any time, while the ferelden army is obviously not in the area to defend the mages. I mean, Therinfal Redoubt isn't exactly very far away from Redcliffe. We know Denerim is two days forced march from Redcliffe...and Therinfal Redoubt is even closer to Redcliffe.

I'm pretty sure it was because of the loons in the Hitherlands actually.

 

*been awhile since I played that quest though*

[thesuperdarkone2]

I'm pretty sure it was because of the loons in the Hitherlands actually.

 

*been awhile since I played that quest though*

If the templars can attack the village itself, it isn't really all that safe is it?

[Dean_the_Young]

The Mage Army that managed to fight one of the strongest fighting forces in Thedas, The Templars, to a standstill?

 

Just going to throw out that they never did that.

 

By the time of the Conclave, the only mage forces in open rebellion are the two mage groups in Western Ferelden: the Rebel Mages in Redcliffe, and the power-mad apostates right outside the gates. The former are hiding behind the protection of the Ferelden Crown even as their VIPs are negotiating in the Conclave, and the power-mad apostates are being matched by a rogue/renegade Templar element.

 

Everywhere else, the Templars won in the field- there are mages who've gone to ground, but it's the Templars who have garrisons and overran various circles and otherwise pushed down any and every prospect for a Magi free state.

 

 

By the time of the Conclave, the Mage Rebellion as a Mage-Templar conflict is effectively over and lost: the only 'advantage' the Mages have is that if the Templars attack Redcliffe, then Ferelden's Crown would be drawn into the war on their side, and Ferelden would beat the Templars.

 

The Conclave is really a high-stake game of chicken in which the mages had a strong hand to negotiate their own surrender. They'd already lost the war in terms of being able to determine their own fate: all that was really left was to negotiate the terms of their oversight between the Chantry and Templars and Ferelden's Crown.

[DuskWanderer]

Still waiting on that codex entry.

 

You'll be waiting a long time. I just checked, and it's crap. No mention of Fiona being brainwashed. I know the pro-mage crowd hates it, but they were not brainwashed. They either joined willingly, fled, or died.