811 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

He wants to invade Ferelden. Revealing the secret would lead to the country being split into warring factions making anos invasion that much simpler. He would falso havê to keep Fiona around as evidence.
Ferelden nobles who wish to see the king deposed would work too.

And where is the tangible and comprehensive benefit for the mages who follow her, in either scenario?

I mean, giving it to Ferelden nobles to start a war? Like... what? They were already given more-than-favorable accommodations by the crown.

[MisterJB]

 

Accommodations they had no leverage over and could be removed as soon as the king felt he could spare the men and, possibly, the slight blow to his reputation.

Besides, I think she should have done it as soon as the war started since the mage desperately needed allies.

[The Baconer]

Accommodations they had no leverage over and could be removed as soon as the king felt he could spare the men and, possibly, the slight blow to his reputation.

 

But I'm sure attempting to de-legitimize the king of Ferelden will make for a much more stable position... for the she-elf that birthed him.

 

 

Besides, I think she should have done it as soon as the war started since the mage desperately needed allies.

 

That is a rather unconventional method for accruing "allies".

[Sylvius the Mad]

... so why does she stay with him if you save the templars?

If you save the Templars, you didn't do In Hushed Whispers.  Maybe she doesn't hate Alexius's plan in the reality wherein you choose the Templars.

 

The two things you're complaining about being inconsistent are never both visible in the same reality.  So why do you think they're there?

[CosmicGnosis]

If you save the Templars, you didn't do In Hushed Whispers.  Maybe she doesn't hate Alexius's plan in the reality wherein you choose the Templars.

 

The two things you're complaining about being inconsistent are never both visible in the same reality.  So why do you think they're there?

Because she is appalled by what she learns about the Venatori and the Elder One during In Hushed Whispers. So why would she have a different reaction if you complete Champions of the Just? She's totally cool with essentially destroying the world and helping a darkspawn ascend to godhood because the templars joined the Inquisition?

 

No, this strains credibility. More likely, she is being fooled or controlled in some extraordinary way. 

[Drasanil]

 

 

Accommodations they had no leverage over and could be removed as soon as the king felt he could spare the men and, possibly, the slight blow to his reputation.

Besides, I think she should have done it as soon as the war started since the mage desperately needed allies.

 

 

 

Well leaving aside the fact that its her son and she probably does not wish him harm. (Most parents are weird like that you know.) The blackmail in itself would be incredibly dodgy given there's already an existing narrative as to who Alistair's "real" mother is. The whole thing would appear desperate at best and just as likely to backfire on her. 

[Shadow Fox]

Well leaving aside the fact that its her son and she probably does not wish him harm. (Most parents are weird like that you know.) The blackmail in itself would be incredibly dodgy given there's already an existing narrative as to who Alistair's "real" mother is. The whole thing would appear desperate at best and just as likely to backfire on her. 

There's also the fact that halfblood or not he is Maric's son.

 

*which was enough to get him the throne instead of the beloved queen Anora*

[myahele]

Lol what a life Alistair lived. He wanted to have a family, too bad he never knew his sister was right next to him all that time. Same goes for his mother

[DuskWanderer]

Because she is appalled by what she learns about the Venatori and the Elder One during In Hushed Whispers. So why would she have a different reaction if you complete Champions of the Just? She's totally cool with essentially destroying the world and helping a darkspawn ascend to godhood because the templars joined the Inquisition?

 

No, this strains credibility. More likely, she is being fooled or controlled in some extraordinary way. 

 

I agree in the sense that I do not believe Fiona ever really liked Alexius's plan. But, just as she did when she accepted it, she probably thought she had no choice and went along with it. Without strong evidence that Fiona is enthralled (not to mention the enthralled are easy to detect: Gregoir determines it's not the case with Lilley.), we must accept that she is a servant. She may not like it, but she is one.

[Lady Artifice]

There are a lot of mage slaves on Tevinter.

 

This reply is extremely delayed, and for that I apologize. 

 

A lot of mage slaves =/= most mages are slaves.

 

The fact that mages can be slaves in Tevinter does not automatically assure that most mages in Tevinter "envy" the southern circle. Tevinter still celebrates magical ability as gift from the Maker (with no side of "curse"), as opposed to southern Thedas where magical ability is cause for suspicion.

 

To be a mage in Tevinter means a better chance at advancement and privilege, property and political influence. To be a mage in southern Thedas typically means the opposite. 

[Br3admax]

To be a mage in the North is to still to be under the heel of the mage elite. You just have a better chance of either a slightly better job, or a slightly earlier death. I'm sure it's better than in the South in some ways, but hella worse in a lot of others. 

[Sunnie]

I agree in the sense that I do not believe Fiona ever really liked Alexius's plan. But, just as she did when she accepted it, she probably thought she had no choice and went along with it. Without strong evidence that Fiona is enthralled (not to mention the enthralled are easy to detect: Gregoir determines it's not the case with Lilley.), we must accept that she is a servant. She may not like it, but she is one.

Except that someone earlier in this thread detailed a passage in the game guide that says if you side with the Templars, the mages and Fiona are brainwashed into doing Coryphshites bidding. Not sure why everyone seems to just disregard this piece of data and continue the circlejerk arguments.

[Br3admax]

Because it's not supported anywhere in game. Game guides, while nice, aren't infallible and are open to debate like everything else. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Except that someone earlier in this thread detailed a passage in the game guide that says if you side with the Templars, the mages and Fiona are brainwashed into doing Coryphshites bidding. Not sure why everyone seems to just disregard this piece of data and continue the circlejerk arguments.

Especially since the content is supported by the now head of the DA team, making it Word of God. 

[thats1evildude]

Patrick Weekes' offhand comment doesn't strike me as too conclusive.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Patrick Weekes' offhand comment doesn't strike me as too conclusive.

It's more conclusive than anything in the game for either side of the argument. 

[Lady Artifice]

To be a mage in the North is to still to be under the heel of the mage elite. You just have a better chance of either a slightly better job, or a slightly earlier death. I'm sure it's better than in the South in some ways, but hella worse in a lot of others. 

 

Yes, some of those mages are going to be under the heel of other mages. Yes, it's not a mage paradise where every mage lives in security and splendor. 

 

It does not follow, however, that the general population of mages in Tevinter look at the "dreary little mage prisons" of the south, where prohibitions are placed upon mages because of their magic and where they expect templar overlords instead of mage ones, and feel envy.  

 

That was the claim that began this train of thought:

 

 

 

 

I had to laugh at that bit, myself. In Tevinter, most mages would envy what they have in the Circle.

 

[Br3admax]

Well in truth, they probably would. I envy free education, unlimited time to do absolute ****, near limitless resources, and a protection from the masses. All of that sounds good on paper. Sure Circles worked, I say worked because it's obviously supposed to change after Inquisition, on a case by case basis, but it sounds nice. Mages in the South envy those in the North because they have what the Southern Mages want. Mages in North envy the ones in the South because they have what they want. Sounds natural to me. 

[Lady Artifice]

Tevinter has circles in the form of prestigious academies that provide all of that without the social stigma and inherent prejudice of the south. 

[thats1evildude]

Tevinter has circles in the form of prestigious academies that provide all of that without the social stigma and inherent prejudice of the south. 

 

Absolutely, provided you hail from the right families.

[Lady Artifice]

Absolutely, provided you hail from the right families.

 

Or are taken under wing by someone from one of the right families, as in the case of a certain elven former slave in DA2. 

 

I am very definitely not arguing the Tevinter is a functional joyride for non Altus mages, but this delusion of any majority of free mages looking at the chantry circles with longing is beyond reason. 

[The Baconer]

Absolutely, provided you hail from the right families.

 

Nah. One-third of the people who held the highest office in the nation didn't hail from the right families.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Because she is appalled by what she learns about the Venatori and the Elder One during In Hushed Whispers. So why would she have a different reaction if you complete Champions of the Just? She's totally cool with essentially destroying the world and helping a darkspawn ascend to godhood because the templars joined the Inquisition?

 

No, this strains credibility. More likely, she is being fooled or controlled in some extraordinary way. 

I'm not saying she reacts differently.  I'm suggesting that she might actually be different.

 

By choosing Champions of the Just or In Hushed Whispers, you're choosing the game world in which you want to play.  It could be that Fiona's reaction to Alexius is simply different in those two bubble universes, and you're resolving which Fiona you have by choosing the associated quest.

 

Schrödinger's Fiona.  She is both and neither Fiona until you choose.

[Sifr]

Except that someone earlier in this thread detailed a passage in the game guide that says if you side with the Templars, the mages and Fiona are brainwashed into doing Coryphshites bidding. Not sure why everyone seems to just disregard this piece of data and continue the circlejerk arguments.

 

No idea either, especially since Weekes backs it up?

 

Guess it's easier to rag on the mages?

[Br3admax]

Nah. One-third of the people who held the highest office in the nation didn't hail from the right families.

Bringing up the archon doesn't really impact this discussion, when it's the Senate, specifically the Magisterium that most are thinking of when trying to get to that position, especially since the Senate concerns more than one position. This is about the masses, and the mass of mages per Dorian's word are just everyday people with a slightly higher position. I'd rather have free **** that's on par with nobles than have to work just to live comfortably. But that's just me. So yes, I'm sure theirs a chance you can become Archon. That slim chance isn't worth my one way ticket to Tevinter. Neither is the cushy life worth my one way trip to Orlais. The point.